climbing

Russman

Apologies if this has been covered before....

Just wondering whats the best way to "find my climbing legs" as it were ? Is the answer simply to keep at it ? or are there any, say, specific leg exercises one could do to build up strength for cycling ?

I wouldn't be the fittest cyclist out there as I'm fairly new to it but would consider myself far from "unfit" in general, but I went up Kellystown Road yesterday by Stackstown GC on 3 Rock and REALLY struggled - first time in my life I've ever used the tiny front chainring ! Is it best to spin a small gear or to try pushing a bigger one ? My middle chainring is a 42 and the biggest sprocket on the back is a 25, so maybe thats too much for the moment ?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks

niceonetom

Just keep at it.

I don't know the first climb you mention, but 42x25 is a pretty big gear for most newcomers, and bigger than even the pros push these days (39 inner is standard for all but the powerhouses in the classics), so don't be afraid to use the granny smallest chainring. Spinning a small gear is generally more efficient for most people as the harder you push with each stroke the sooner your legs will fill up with lactate.

Stay seated. Relax everything that isn't being used to turn the pedals or keep you going in the right direction. Breathe deeply. Find a rhythm.

It's about power to weight so there are many guys who consider themselves "fit" who suddenly find themselves in deep trouble on climbs - all those bench-presses are no good to you now, and even leg work in the gym is of limited value as it's not so much about absolute strength as about muscular endurance.

Learn to enjoy the suffering, and easy on the pies.

blorg

Spin a small gear. Go down into your inside chain ring, climbing is what it is there for. No idea why you would stay in the 42 going up a hill!?

Russman

@ Blorg, when you put it like that, I've no idea either !:)

Thanks for the info guys, spinning a small gear it is so....

Ryaner

Doing lots of climbing definitely helps. I'm much better now at climbing than I was say 3 months ago. Losing weights helps too.

calerbass

Russman wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered before....

Just wondering whats the best way to "find my climbing legs" as it were ? Is the answer simply to keep at it ? or are there any, say, specific leg exercises one could do to build up strength for cycling ?

I wouldn't be the fittest cyclist out there as I'm fairly new to it but would consider myself far from "unfit" in general, but I went up Kellystown Road yesterday by Stackstown GC on 3 Rock and REALLY struggled - first time in my life I've ever used the tiny front chainring ! Is it best to spin a small gear or to try pushing a bigger one ? My middle chainring is a 42 and the biggest sprocket on the back is a 25, so maybe thats too much for the moment ?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks

Spin a low gear that your comfortable with, dont fight the hill, go at your own pace and you ll find a rythm,

victorcarrera

Russman wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered before....

...I wouldn't be the fittest cyclist out there as I'm fairly new to it but would consider myself far from "unfit" in general, but I went up Kellystown Road yesterday by Stackstown GC on 3 Rock and REALLY struggled - first time in my life I've ever used the tiny front chainring ! ...

Based on the info you provided above and my memory of the road that goes by Stackstown GC you are already going well at this early stage and your gearing and bike is suitable for the severity of your challenge.
The gearing (or bike) you use is not important at this stage. What is important is that you are getting over this particular climb either on the limit of or within your current ability. Most beginners are apprehensive about challenging climbs and are happy enough to get over them without stopping. You now have the confidence in your ability to get over this one. I would suggest you do the same climb a few times over the next couple of weeks and you should notice that it gets easier. After that it's up to yourself where you want to go regarding body/bike weight.
In the meantime use all your gears, concentrate on smooth breathing and cadence. Don't be tempted to burn your legs if you are far from home. Over time you will learn to guage the length of the climb so as you have a little bit left at the summit. As a rule of thumb on a training or leisure spin only give max 80% on a climb. Use your gears and save a little for the spin home. You will also learn alot by doing and if you persist you will soon have the confidence to tackle more difficult climbs.

ROK ON

Hi. I was up this climb a few times tonite. It is tough climb for most people. Definitely a tough one for me.

If you have a triple and it sounds that you do then you should spin in the 30 ring and whatever on the rear cassette allows you to keep spinning.

I use a gearing of 34 27 on this climb. It is definitely sufficient to get me up but I am particularly slow. However in saying that I wouldn't want to much more gearing on this climb.
Once you get up this a few times try approaching 3rock from Ticknock as opposed to Kellystown. Ticknock is shorter but way tougher in that the final ramp up to the t-junction is 14%. Now I would give anything for mire gearing on that bit.
The good thing about Kellystown lane and 3Rock (apart from the flat bit) is that the gradient is reasonably constant.

Russman

Thanks again for the encouragement guys, much appreciated. Will head up again in the next few days and try it at an easier pace, think I hit it too hard at the start yesterday and paid for it halfway up.

@Rok On - drove up the Ticknock side tonight just to have a look - its damn steep alright ! Can remember nipping up there no bother as a kid on an old Viking 10 speed, I'm sure it wasn't as steep back then, lol !

blorg

Russman wrote: »

Thanks again for the encouragement guys, much appreciated. Will head up again in the next few days and try it at an easier pace, think I hit it too hard at the start yesterday and paid for it halfway up.

There is a rule of thumb to break a climb into thirds- take the first third as easy as humanly possible (much easier than you "feel" you can go), ease into your "normal" climbing pace for the middle third and then if you are feeling strong at the end of that, go for it in the final third.

Same general approach applies to time trialling. The idea is to let the pain come to you rather than seeking it out. Mind you, don't feel at all bad if you can't "go for it" in the last third, despite how easy it may feel at the start the pain definitely comes!

ROK ON

@Russman. If you try this climb tomorrow just be careful. From the 2nd gate on the road up to 3Rock there is a fine coating of ice. The climb is fine up to that point.

Plastik

Is it 'better technique' to be out of the saddle turning a larger gear, or sitting in the saddle turning the smallest? I find it easier to do the former at the moment, personally. I'm only on short steep hills though, as opposed to a long mountain climb.

blorg

Plastik wrote: »

Is it 'better technique' to be out of the saddle turning a larger gear, or sitting in the saddle turning the smallest? I find it easier to do the former at the moment, personally. I'm only on short steep hills though, as opposed to a long mountain climb.

(Very) short steep hills you can power over out of the saddle, longer climbs you should sit in the saddle and spin. Even with short sharp stuff you would generally power over in a race situation, spinning is probably more efficient.

What do you find "difficult" about spinning, or "easier" about getting out of the saddle in a larger gear?

In general sitting in the saddle spinning will tire your muscles far less.

Plastik

What's harder, well basically just staying in the saddle and trying to crank the pedals around! I find it easier to go up two gears and stand the whole way up at the moment! Mind you, I'm new to this, I've only had the bike four weeks and have been on three spins (29k, 38k, 62k) so I'm still finding (trying to) my cycling/climbing legs!

Lumen

Plastik wrote: »

What's harder, well basically just staying in the saddle and trying to crank the pedals around! I find it easier to go up two gears and stand the whole way up at the moment! Mind you, I'm new to this, I've only had the bike four weeks and have been on three spins (29k, 38k, 62k) so I'm still finding (trying to) my cycling/climbing legs!

If in doubt, just do what's more comfortable, although seated climbing is a good way to force you to pace better.

I find it easier/faster to alternate in and out of the saddle. If I push hard while seated without breaks I get a crampy/hurt feeling in my arse muscle.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

If I push hard while seated without breaks I get a crampy/hurt feeling in my arse muscle.

That's called "effort". The more "effort" the better

DirkVoodoo

You would be surprised how fast you can ascend while seated and spinning, I think it's just because there is such little resistance it doesn't feel like you are climbing very fast.

lukester

Climbing while standing supposedly takes about 10% more effort than climbing in the saddle. Can be helpful to stand for short stretches just to take the pressure off the arse though. Or to rip the legs off your opponents.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

I find it easier/faster to alternate in and out of the saddle. If I push hard while seated without breaks I get a crampy/hurt feeling in my arse muscle.

Spinning in your lowest gear, or pushing a larger gear hard?

Lumen

lukester wrote: »

Climbing while standing supposedly takes about 10% more effort than climbing in the saddle.

Efficiency, effectiveness and fatigue in cycling are not very simple topics to understand. I've tried a bit, and mostly failed.

There are studies which show that metabolic efficiency is not affected by cadence, and other studies which show that low cadence is very fatiguing. So there are apparently several distinct types of fatigue, related either to depletion of energy stores or to some sort of localised muscular strain.

Additionally, there are issues around tiredness, form, and injury - cycling tired makes you more prone to injury.

So the best technique really depends on what you're trying to achieve. Do you want to be the first one up the hill or the last one at the physio? If I was training for some epic multi-day tour, I'd want to practice cycling at optimal efficiency and minimal muscular stress, i.e. high cadence, modest power, seated climbing. Training for speed requires more measured amounts of acute stress.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Spinning in your lowest gear, or pushing a larger gear hard?

Pushing a larger gear hard, although I also get it when doing seated high intensity intervals at high cadence (e.g. 5 min max power @ 100+ rpm).

Energy efficiency is easy to tell - harder breathing = more oxygen = more fuel burned. Climbing out of the saddle and seated spinning both drive up breathing more than seated low cadence.

If the objective is to climb fast whilst verbally mocking your opponent, then seated @ low cadence is definitely a winner.

lukester

In simple terms though, sitting and spinning is easier to maintain for longer than standing in a higher gear.

So for just getting up hills intact, with the least amount of recovery required, sitting is more energy efficient, no?

If you're racing, then different factors come into play.

All of the above is just based on experience and random reading. I am certainly not a natural climber, although I remain hopeful that getting down to Indurain's Tour-winning weight will be a help.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

If the objective is to climb fast whilst verbally mocking your opponent, then seated @ low cadence is definitely a winner.

Same goes for when passing someone whilst cycling with one of your feet unclipped. Just make sure you can clip back in easy enough when they try to barge you off the road.

Lumen

lukester wrote: »

So for just getting up hills intact, with the least amount of recovery required, sitting is more energy efficient, no?

Yes. But less energy efficient than not cycling up the hill in the first place. What's the point?

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Training for speed requires more measured amounts of acute stress.

This is entirely true and in bunch racing in particular you have to do whatever it takes to stay with the bunch. This generally means hard efforts up sharp hills.

I do know from extensive personal experience though that spinning an easy gear at high cadence up hills leaves my legs a hell of a lot fresher than doing the same climbs standing. I have done the likes of the Wicklow Gap standing the whole way and it does take it out of you.

Raam

blorg wrote: »

I have done the likes of the Wicklow Gap standing the whole way and it does take it out of you.

Are you mental? Why would you want to do that?!

blorg

Raam wrote: »

Are you mental? Why would you want to do that?!

Fixed gear so not a lot of choice other than to stand.

Raam

blorg wrote: »

Fixed gear so not a lot of choice other than to stand.

Same question to that statement!

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Are you mental? Why would you want to do that?!

Stunt bike?

lukester

Lumen wrote: »

Yes. But less energy efficient than not cycling up the hill in the first place. What's the point?

Saving energy. If I shag myself on the first hill then I'm f*cked for the next 3.

doozerie

If the question is whether climbing in the saddle is better than out of the saddle, the answer is simply that it depends. Factors include your goals, the length of the climb, the gradient, the road surface, etc. One very important factor too is the rider himself/herself - fitness, leg strength, and suppleness all play a part obviously, but also some people just prefer to climb in the saddle while others prefer to climb out of the saddle. There is no simple answer, it changes from person to person and sometimes even from day to day for the same person. Try different approaches and figure out what works for you.

The following might be of interest. The first is a discussion of a scientific approach to measuring whether staying in the saddle is more efficient that out of the saddle or vice versa (answer = it depends), the others offer advice on climbing technique(s):
* Technique: Up and away
* Technique: Be a better climber
* Power Climbing

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Yes. But less energy efficient than not cycling up the hill in the first place. What's the point?

Generally when cycling efficiency is very important, the more so in racing. You need to conserve energy wherever you get a chance. Shag yourself going up hills early on or in a suicidal breakaway and you won't have the legs to contest the sprint.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Generally when cycling efficiency is very important, the more so in racing. You need to conserve energy wherever you get a chance. Shag yourself going up hills early on or in a suicidal breakaway and you won't have the legs to contest the sprint.

Ah, but what about the homicidal breakaway!

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, but what about the homicidal breakaway!

Or the fratricidal breakaway. That's when you chase your own team mates down.

victorcarrera

I like this guys take on it.

Courtesy of a contributor to one of the OP's articles.

Alfbinda
I usually sit down at the bottom and eat a sandwich,stand up and have a drink, and when the Lance Armstrong types arrive - or the people who produce this sort of drivel- I have a laugh.I'm too old to care,but have always enjoyed cycling.This guff
goes beyond enjoyment into a realm called delusive madness.These people are pulling faces at themselves in a mirror:.
I close with the only invocation that comes to mind :God bless Coppi.

Lumen

victorcarrera wrote: »

I like this guys take on it.

On here? I prefer this one:

"I stand for 2 reasons. Either my arse hurts or my front wheel is leaving the ground."

Plastik

doozerie wrote: »

* Technique: Be a better climber
* Power Climbing

Tried to put these into practice when out today and certainly found the climbing while staying in the saddle a lot easier. Towards the end though when the tops of the quads were burning and the energy sapped ... out of the saddle was the only solution that was going to get me up the hills!!

Appreciate the links though!

lamai

blorg wrote: »

There is a rule of thumb to break a climb into thirds- take the first third as easy as humanly possible (much easier than you "feel" you can go), ease into your "normal" climbing pace for the middle third and then if you are feeling strong at the end of that, go for it in the final third.

Same general approach applies to time trialling. The idea is to let the pain come to you rather than seeking it out. Mind you, don't feel at all bad if you can't "go for it" in the last third, despite how easy it may feel at the start the pain definitely comes!

There is a few short hills in my area. that start steep enough and then in say the final half get very steep. I usually take a run at it and go fast enough in a higher gear up the first less steeper half. and less release the gears into the smallest gear up the steepest half. should I just take it easier to start of with? or keep doing what I am doing. I feel that by speeding on the hill initially I get up it faster. as the last part is very steep.

Raam

lamai wrote: »

There is a few short hills in my area. that start steep enough and then in say the final half get very steep. I usually take a run at it and go fast enough in a higher gear up the first less steeper half. and less release the gears into the smallest gear up the steepest half. should I just take it easier to start of with? or keep doing what I am doing. I feel that by speeding on the hill initially I get up it faster. as the last part is very steep.

I guess it depends how long they are. I would say: experiment.
Next time you tackle it, go real easy at the start and save your legs for the final steeper bit. Do that for a while and then switch back to the other way. Compare how the different approaches feel and determine which one works for you.

lamai

I'm exhausted from reading this thread:D

lamai

Raam wrote: »

I guess it depends how long they are. I would say: experiment.
Next time you tackle it, go real easy at the start and save your legs for the final steeper bit. Do that for a while and then switch back to the other way. Compare how the different approaches feel and determine which one works for you.

Yeah will do that, might be more efficient