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Apple iMac woes
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22-02-2010 5:05pm#1
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Interesting. The reason I am buying a macbook pro from Apple in Ireland (rather than get it cheaper shipped from the UK) is because I will be protected under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 if anything goes wrong (I'm not getting AppleCare for this purpose).
Can you elaborate on your experiences with Apple for out of warranty repairs? Any info would help.
Have you ever taken them to the small claims court?
Anyone who reads this should start here.
I am in no way affiliated with Apple, nor am I trying to exploit their system in any way, it is merely my experience with their technical support and customer relations.
This is long, hope the mods don't mind
I'm love telling this "story" as it can really help people with their problems and some people feel intimidated when big companies claim certain things and they don't get what they deserve or are entitled to. So if you, or anyone you know, has to deal with Apple technical support, or customer relations, feel free to put them in touch via posting here and/or PM'ing me, I'm more than happy to help and share my experiences and knowledge of their system. I'm definitely going to see a PM, and probably going to see posts here.
Just clear one thing up, all machines were still in warranty, which does change things slightly for you, but it doesn't change your rights.
Also, part of my success in dealing with them was the guy I got on to.
I'll run through what happened and how one or two were resolved, Apple were very helpful I must admit, bar one or two occasions.
April 07: Purchase 2.0Ghz White Macbook, value €1500 (the specs and value are important, you'll see a trend in a minute)
Next day: Disk drive refuses to eject disk, scratches another etc, Apple immediately replace the machine with an identical one (I had two for 3 days due to an overlap) as per their 14 day policy. After 14 days, the first one has to be picked up before the next one ships.
July (ish): Disc drive is giving more problems, call Apple, they say I can get it looked at in Blanchardstown town (Mactivate, great company). I decide to leave it as I had no easy way of getting out there and it wasn't major.
February 2008: Drive is still giving trouble, screen is flickering (slight change between bright and dark very quickly but only lasting a few seconds, every so often, nothing regular) and there is a high pitched noise coming from around the mag safe connector, while on battery or power. Ring APple, they want me to send it in, I agree but wasn't happy, I wanted a replacement. He wouldn't agree so I ask him to get the Mactivate guys to replace all the outer shell of the computer, as it was getting pretty grubby. Mactivate replaced the logic board which fixed the noise, claimed the drive was fine and couldn't find the flickering. Once they couldn't find the flickering, the guy in Apple was saying that they would replace the machine as it was an ir-repairable fault.
Thats fine I think, but my machine is nearly a year old and it's a lot of hassle having someone home to have the old one collected and the new one delivered, not to mention trekking it out and back to the blanch for a repair that didn't work properly. So I want some compensation. I mention this to him and he uses Apple's term, " A gesture of good will" which eliminates any admission by them of a fault beyond hardware. Apple had since dropped the price of all the machines and since they had to give me a machine of equal or better specification (as per their own warranty) I was owed the middle of the range white macbook which had one or two minor improvements (bigger HDD etc) but I wanted more raw power. I suggested to him, that "Apple could replace my machine with the black macbook, which worked out well for apple as it was €100 cheaper than my original machine, and it was good for me as I got more ram, bigger HD, better processor (2.2Ghz) and it was also the lovely black model. He was reluctant so I threw him the old SGSS Act and said my machine wasn't fit for purpose and I have been inconvenienced hugely, so I deserve compensation (never say gesture of good will). We exchanged phone calls for a day or two, and he eventually agreed. Happy days. This whole incident took about 6 weeks with repairs and everything.
March 2008: I get my black macbook
End of April 2008 2008: The black macbook is riddled with problems. Unresponsive, slow, not starting up properly, kernel panics etc. I rang customer relations, skipping tech support (very hard number to get). This is when I got onto the guy from cork. Spoke to him about it and point blank refused to send the machine in for repair, he saw my side of the story and agreed it was a bit ridiculous. I told him it was time for serious compensation, not stuff that canceled out with value etc. I wanted the maxed out 17" MacBook Pro worth €2600 (aim high guys!). He was a little taken aback, but said he'd see what he could do and that Apple say that "Anything is possible" so we'd see how much they stand behind that statement when it comes to customers, as they really mean it with products (this guys was a hero). This goes on for two weeks and he eventually said that he could do it but I'd half to pay half the difference of the gap between the machine I wanted and what Apple would give me. They would give me a machine worth €2000 so I'd have to pay €250 minus the VAT. None of this was said as directly as this but reading between the lines and both of us thinking the same way, it worked out. He worked out all my values with VAT added on, but when it came to me paying he took the vat off. Not sure how he can do that, but he worked it out some way. I figure that for an €1100 upgrade, €200 was a good investment. I also got him to put a neoprene case in the basket, which I would pay for, just saved me shipping costs. I gave the CC details. 5 days later I got a call saying it was getting a bit awkward and he was slightly delayed. 3 days after that he rings me and says that he has good news and bad news, bad news is that their system can't process a random payment like that. Good news is he's just gonna give it to me for free, along with the case to say sorry for the delay, but I reckon it was just easier than processing the payment. I get the machine at the end of may.
Late June 2008: The 17" is ridiculous. Same sort of problems as the black macbook. It nearly seems like they were doing this on purpose. I admit I was being fussy, but €1500 was a lot out of my pocket initially and I want a fully working machine. They guy I was on to earlier (we'll call him bob) told me that if I ever had any problems I was to contact him directly. Be he regretted that
SO I emailed him about the problems but go no reply. I headed away without the laptop until the end of august, when I rang him and asked him why he never replied. Not to worry, he was apologetic and happy to sort it out. I told him the machine would need to be replaced. He said the obligatory "it must go in for repair" but I refused as he knew I would. He said he would look into it. Rang me back 3 days later (these guys take their time). I told him this was a disgrace and I could no longer trust Apple's notebook line-up, but I had to use mac's based on the amount I had invested in Apple software and other components. I gave him three options, which I won't get into, but they were basically replacing the laptop and giving me a free 20" iMac. Again he said "we'll see what we can do". He looked into it, came back and said the best they could do was a maxed out Mac mini. No good to me ad I would need a display keyboard and mouse. Then I thought, on to the Apple store, a maxed out mini was €150 cheaper than a 20" iMac (base model) so surely Apple could stretch to that, or give me an Apple cinema display, their call. He saw the logic and went off. Mean while, serious rumours started flying about Apple upgrading the Macbook pro's. I asked him could we effectively press pause on the case until they were upgraded. He said he was very busy and that would suit him perfectly. I didn't use the machine much between then and October as I was away a lot. They were upgraded to the unibody in late october 2008.
Late October 2008: I get back on to him a few days after they are upgraded. He was expecting my call. I left a few days so as to let him get up to speed with the models and their system upgraded etc. It also allowed me to figure out which one I would aim for, along with my iMac, which they still hadn't agreed to. When I rang him I first asked him about the iMac and he had been hassling people (or so he claimed, not convinced). He had got me the base 20" iMac (must admit I would have loved the cinema display, as unrealistic as it was!). I was pretty happy getting the second Mac. We also agreed on a MacBook Pro worth roughly the same as the 17". It was the 15" (I found the 17" to big tbh!) and has incredible specs! 2.53Ghz, 4GB Ram (1066Mhz) 320 HD, 512 Nvidia Graphics (has the two of them for better battery and better performance!) basically the top of the line Unibody at the time. They hadn't upgraded the 17" properly, and I didn't want it. He agreed to it all and said it would take a few days to get it through the system as he would have to make sure it was done right. He rang me and said he sent out the 15" (my 17" had gone a few days before) but had accidentally sent me a 24" 2.8Ghz iMac that he ordered for himself as he was doing both at the same time and got the addresses mixed up. He wanted me to take the 24" and he would then have it picked up while my 20" was sent out. I secretly wanted to keep the 24" and I would be doing a fair bit to keep it, or so I thought. I rang Tech support as I couldn't get through to his direct line and the other direct customer relations number wasn't working. The only way into CS now is through tech support. I got onto a guy in CS who said "bob" was out for a few days and he would help me fix this. Great I thought not a chance of keeping it. He read through the case notes and said he saw I had been sent the wrong machine. I interrupted him and said yes but its perfectly fine. He said that it wasn't the machine I had been promised so it wouldn't do. Then suddenly he said "but it will cost Apple lots of money to ship this back to the netherlands and ship you a 20", so Apple would like you to keep it, if that is ok with you" he said a lot more than this and was basically begging me to keep it. I gladly accepted, wasn't so hard after all.
December 2008: I finally get my iMac (24"). This baby had been sitting un-opened in my house for a week while we sorted out whether I could keep it. You can imagine the torture.
January 2009: The new Macbook pro's speakers start acting up and I get bob to just do a direct swap. I'm happy with both machines and sick of it all at this stage.
The end of all my saga.
A few notes:
I reckon there was some reason I was sent a 24". Perhaps to shut me up, maybe the 20"'s weren't available, I don't know. I just don't understand how you could mess up a personal order that much. If it was me, I'd be making damn sure I was ordering my own one and sending it to me! I had a suspicion it was a refurb, but the serial number tells me otherwise (I'm aware they all get new serial numbers, but AFAIK these are very identifiable) and I also rand tech support with a crazy story and asked them to confirm this wasn't the iMac I had that was from the refurb store (I only have one iMac
) which the kind lady did. The last guy I was on to who told me to keep it, sounded like he scrolled down in the case notes and read something that told him to let me keep it.
I fully appreciate that this is an exceptional case and actually has very little to do with out of warranty service etc and may be a bit excessive in length. However, it does say a lot about how willing Apple are to help the customer, especially if you get a decent person on the other end. There have also been some horror stories about tech support, plenty of them!
The only thing out of warranty that they did was replace a 1st gen touch (after the new ones were release) after I had stated that it wasn't good enough that it broke and that by law it had to last a reasonable length of time, which it didn't. They gave me the legal jargon which I ignored and persuaded them to replace it. Luckly little sister
I have never even threatened them with court as I never saw the need.
Basically what this tells you is that I wouldn't be overly worried about getting reasonable service from them, even out of warranty, as they are very accommodating.
Again, I apologise for the horrific length, and anyone with any questions please ask, or PM if this was typed more than a few weeks ago
@ Elessar: I appreciate this isn't really what you asked for, but you should be able to apply this to your own situation. I would recommend Apple care as it gives you three years to get compensation for any problems, instead of arguing about the acts. As disappointing as it is, I reckon something may go wrong within three years.0 -
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That's some story alexlyons!
Alex is grandAbout the warranty though, it's really not necessary since you are already covered. Yeah you might have to talk to a manager, even go so far as to make a claim in the SCC, but once you're covered under the act, you're covered under the act.
I wouldn't go so far as to say not necessary. Yes you are "technically" covered, but it does get a lot more finicky and is open to some level of individual interpretation, and if that is wrong then you're looking at the small claims court (which wouldn't have actually worked with me as total compensation end up at about €4100 if I remember the figures right, and the SCC limit is €2500). The HD failed in the iMac last december and was replaced (don't talk to me about backups, I'm thinking of writing a book about that one!!). I brought it to Mactivate who replaced it but the also put a tiny dent in the aluminium bezel. They offered me cut price Apple Care which I didn't take as I couldn't afford it (got €50 cash instead) but I would have liked to. The extended warranty is only €180, and can be got much cheaper either from the states or on ebay, both of which is perfectly legal and works fine. It is a great investment as it makes solving any issues a breeze (they are just fixed or replaced) and also my favourite part of problems is compensation, which can be difficult to get out of them if you've annoyed them with acts, as they don't legally have to give it to you. The small claims court may award it, but I reckon it's unlikely.
Apple are more difficult than simply talking to a manager though, and as I said, the act can get difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if 8 out of 10 out of warranty cases that were really pushed, ended up with at the very least a legal letter threatening action if there isn't a satisfactory outcome.
All that said, I'm just making sure you don't spend the extra here and not get it, to discover it would have been easier to spend a little more and make life a bit easier. Yes you're paying for an easy ride and not much more, but it all depends on what value you put on each aspect of the whole picture. Each to there own, and I'm not saying I'd always get it, like you saw earlier when I went for the cash! Let me know which way you go and how the machine is!0 -
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Alex is grand
I wouldn't go so far as to say not necessary. Yes you are "technically" covered, but it does get a lot more finicky and is open to some level of individual interpretation, and if that is wrong then you're looking at the small claims court (which wouldn't have actually worked with me as total compensation end up at about €4100 if I remember the figures right, and the SCC limit is €2500). The HD failed in the iMac last december and was replaced (don't talk to me about backups, I'm thinking of writing a book about that one!!). I brought it to Mactivate who replaced it but the also put a tiny dent in the aluminium bezel. They offered me cut price Apple Care which I didn't take as I couldn't afford it (got €50 cash instead) but I would have liked to. The extended warranty is only €180, and can be got much cheaper either from the states or on ebay, both of which is perfectly legal and works fine. It is a great investment as it makes solving any issues a breeze (they are just fixed or replaced) and also my favourite part of problems is compensation, which can be difficult to get out of them if you've annoyed them with acts, as they don't legally have to give it to you. The small claims court may award it, but I reckon it's unlikely.
Apple are more difficult than simply talking to a manager though, and as I said, the act can get difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if 8 out of 10 out of warranty cases that were really pushed, ended up with at the very least a legal letter threatening action if there isn't a satisfactory outcome.
All that said, I'm just making sure you don't spend the extra here and not get it, to discover it would have been easier to spend a little more and make life a bit easier. Yes you're paying for an easy ride and not much more, but it all depends on what value you put on each aspect of the whole picture. Each to there own, and I'm not saying I'd always get it, like you saw earlier when I went for the cash! Let me know which way you go and how the machine is!
I know what you're saying, it might save some hassle. But I simply will not fork out money for something I don't need. I think that's absurd. You are already giving them a premium for their computers, so you better be damn sure they will get repaired for free under the law.
That's what the SCC is for. They don't pay out compensation, just enforce your right to a repair, replacement or refund. I was reading a post by someone recently where he took Apple to court for an ipod issue IIRC. They had refused his request for a refund. It got all the way to the court and Apple sent a solicitor to represent them. But he made no objections and the SCC ruled in the mans favour. It seemed they just wanted to call his bluff. The whole point of the SCC is to make it easy and inexpensive for consumers to enforce their rights. I would have no problem doing that.
As the old addage goes, fools and their money are soon parted. And I say that as an ex-fool myself when I bought Apple care for my last MBP!0 -
That's what the SCC is for. They don't pay out compensation, just enforce your right to a repair, replacement or refund. I was reading a post by someone recently where he took Apple to court for an ipod issue IIRC. They had refused his request for a refund. It got all the way to the court and Apple sent a solicitor to represent them. But he made no objections and the SCC ruled in the mans favour. It seemed they just wanted to call his bluff. The whole point of the SCC is to make it easy and inexpensive for consumers to enforce their rights. I would have no problem doing that.
I'm aware of how the SCC operate (unfortunately) and I know they don't pay out anything etc, they just rule. In terms of Apple trying call his bluff, that's what they bank on, and if you don't let them, you get a free iMac (at least in my case) so you just have to keep pushing.
However, if I was to take them to the SCC and look for compensation for what had happened, I could have only got €2500 worth, as that is the maximum compensation the SCC can award. Therefore it is better to directly with Apple and have their warranty up your sleeve so they can't turn around and say sorry its out of warranty (and end up at the SCC), if you want more than a repair.
I would never (one exception) purchase Apple Care, as I completely agree with what your saying. However, the exception is this: if I feel that if anything were to happen to the computer I would want more than a simple repair (we're talking a good bit more) an investment of about €120 is not that bad. There would want to have been significant problems with the particular machine in question. The were no major issues with either machines I have now, so I didn't get it. You see where I'm coming from? DOn't get me wrong, I completely agree with being covered under the act, but my reason for buying it, if I did, is not for repair, but for decent compensation.0
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