This Photo Sums Up Everything Wrong with Irish Rail and CIE

FlameoftheWest

I looked at this special that went to sligo the other day. It looked like a lot of people had a nice time and enjoyed themselves. That's great.

But then I see a link to the photo below and suddenly it annoys me. I was lecturing at Maynooth College back in the late 1990's and most of the students who lived in Longford, Sligo etc took the train home. Then they all started driving. All of them. Their reason was the same reason I stopped using it to visit my aunt in Edgeworthstown. The lack of any kind of real comfort on the trains. I can recall in the late 80's actually having a full cooked breakfast and diiner on the Sligo train. But now it is a glorified bus and the collaspe in passenger numbers on th Sligo line proves this.

But look at what Irish Rail provide for railfans what their inter-city passengers are denied.

http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/p63417141.html

Am I wrong for being annoyed? It seems to me that Irish Rail cannot do enough to please the railfan day tripper while showing absolute contempt for their bread and butter customers. They do not even tell you why their trains break down in the middle of no where, yet they pull out all the stops for something like this.

It's just wrong.

Vic_08

That train is owned and operated by the RPSI not Irish Rail. (IE would most likely provide a driver and guard but that is it)

The people staffing the train including the bar staff are mostly unpaid volunteers who do it to support the RPSI.

The railtours last for many hours and RPSI can generate large sums out of well-patronised on-board catering as those on board are there for the trip and can be expected to buy food and drink for their outing.

The cost of providing catering on scheduled trains is high and when it is done at a profit people generally baulk at the prices.
Before you start to bitch about those nasty unionised CIE employees getting paid too much as the reason for this I should point out that catering is now franchised out to a private company that runs similar operations in the UK and Europe.

As for passenger numbers on the Sligo line being down well I would guess that with there being more than double the number of services now that is in fact not correct.

KC61

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

I looked at this special that went to sligo the other day. It looked like a lot of people had a nice time and enjoyed themselves. That's great.

But then I see a link to the photo below and suddenly it annoys me. I was lecturing at Maynooth College back in the late 1990's and most of the students who lived in Longford, Sligo etc took the train home. Then they all started driving. All of them. Their reason was the same reason I stopped using it to visit my aunt in Edgeworthstown. The lack of any kind of real comfort on the trains. I can recall in the late 80's actually having a full cooked breakfast and diiner on the Sligo train. But now it is a glorified bus and the collaspe in passenger numbers on th Sligo line proves this.

But look at what Irish Rail provide for railfans what their inter-city passengers are denied.

http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/p63417141.html

Am I wrong for being annoyed? It seems to me that Irish Rail cannot do enough to please the railfan day tripper while showing absolute contempt for their bread and butter customers. They do not even tell you why their trains break down in the middle of no where, yet they pull out all the stops for something like this.

It's just wrong.

The Sligo route passenger numbers have not "collapsed". In fact passenger numbers have increased over recent years, especially since the number of trains on the line increased from 3 to 8 return workings.

The only Irish Rail input into the train on Sunday was to provide the driver and guard. The locomotives, rolling stock are all owned by the RPSI and staffed by their volunteers. The RPSI pay all the costs.

As for dining cars on Sligo route, well apparently sales of meals had fallen to a trickle and the service was withdrawn. You can still buy an alcoholic drink from the trolley though!

garfieldsghost

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

I looked at this special that went to sligo the other day. It looked like a lot of people had a nice time and enjoyed themselves. That's great.

But then I see a link to the photo below and suddenly it annoys me. I was lecturing at Maynooth College back in the late 1990's and most of the students who lived in Longford, Sligo etc took the train home. Then they all started driving. All of them. Their reason was the same reason I stopped using it to visit my aunt in Edgeworthstown. The lack of any kind of real comfort on the trains. I can recall in the late 80's actually having a full cooked breakfast and diiner on the Sligo train. But now it is a glorified bus and the collaspe in passenger numbers on th Sligo line proves this.

But look at what Irish Rail provide for railfans what their inter-city passengers are denied.

http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/p63417141.html

Am I wrong for being annoyed? It seems to me that Irish Rail cannot do enough to please the railfan day tripper while showing absolute contempt for their bread and butter customers. They do not even tell you why their trains break down in the middle of no where, yet they pull out all the stops for something like this.

It's just wrong.

Collapse in the numbers of passengers travelling on the Sligo line? And an inadequate service being provided? IÉ may do a very good impression of the Keystone Cops in many respects but what you're saying above is simply not true. There's a very frequent service operated now - with no less than four trains arriving at Maynooth (two originating in Longford and two from Sligo) before 09.36 to accomodate for your students, which should be more than enough.

As for the train being a "glorified bus"... I don't know if you've travelled on 22k railcars yet but as a regular user I find them quite comfortable.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

As for dining cars on Sligo route, well apparently sales of meals had fallen to a trickle and the service was withdrawn.

The food was absolutely appalling. Microwaved chips and microwaved burgers. Euughh!

munchkin_utd

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

snip....
The lack of any kind of real comfort on the trains. I can recall in the late 80's actually having a full cooked breakfast and diiner on the Sligo train. But now it is a glorified bus and the collaspe in passenger numbers on the Sligo line proves this.
snip....

heres an interesting ditty on the sligo line:

A record number of passengers travelled on the Dublin-Sligo line in 2008, with 1.34m using the service.
This represents an 8% increase from 1.24m passengers in 2007. The Dublin-Sligo line is ranked as IÉ's third busiest InterCity service, after Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Galway.
The passenger figures for 2008 represent a 41% growth in numbers travelling in 3 years, up from 950,000 journeys in 2005, and a doubling of passenger numbers in just five years.

http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20169/169%20Operations.htm

Where is the collapse in passenger numbers?

JHMEG

munchkin_utd wrote: »

heres an interesting ditty on the sligo line:

http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20169/169%20Operations.htm

Where is the collapse in passenger numbers?

Does that include commuter passenger numbers which would have seen an explosion in the Dublin 15 area?

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

Does that include commuter passenger numbers which would have seen an explosion in the Dublin 15 area?

No - just Intercity passengers.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

The food was absolutely appalling. Microwaved chips and microwaved burgers. Euughh!

They were not microwaved - every train had it's own chef with full kitchen facilities.

munchkin_utd

JHMEG wrote: »

Does that include commuter passenger numbers which would have seen an explosion in the Dublin 15 area?

Those are intercity figures
There's supposedly 10,000 passengers using the suburban services daily on the Maynooth line**. I'll presume thats passenger journeys than "people" making return journeys.
Over 363 days thats 3.6 Million passenger journeys, so waaaaay more than the figures quoted for sligo line, meaning that the suburban figures are not included in the numbers quoted earlier.

**: http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20160/160%20News.htm - right at the end in the blurb about Docklands.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

They were not microwaved - every train had it's own chef with full kitchen facilities.

I've been served and have eaten such shíte on the Sligo line, and nearly puked after eating it. Chef me hole, and don't try to tell me otherwise. Seriously. The food was sooo bad laterally I swore never to buy it again. And I'm old enough to remember when the food was decent.

-Corkie-

KC61 wrote: »

They were not microwaved - every train had it's own chef with full kitchen facilities.

Maybe but the grub was outlandish though. Looking at the pictures I see a lot of sausage jockeys in the picture.

corktina

thats got to be the most inaccurate first post ive seen for a long while...

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

I've been served and have eaten such shíte on the Sligo line, and nearly puked after eating it. Chef me hole, and don't try to tell me otherwise. Seriously. The food was sooo bad laterally I swore never to buy it again. And I'm old enough to remember when the food was decent.

I am referring to those trains where there were full meals served, and not specifically the Sligo route.

L1011

malcox wrote: »

Maybe but the grub was outlandish though. Looking at the pictures I see a lot of sausage jockeys in the picture.

This post doesn't parse at all.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

I am referring to those trains where there were full meals served, and not specifically the Sligo route.

You said dining cars on the Sligo route... sales fallen to near zero.. service withdrawn. I said food was pure shít and you said they had chefs and proper facilities, which laterally was definitely not the case.

I used the Sligo line (intercity) once a month for 12 years, and witnessed the food service being run into the ground. Passengers stopped buying food because it wasn't edible.

FlameoftheWest

I also beleived they ran something akin to a Metro style frequency on all the routes for the Pope in 1979.

Apparently the right people can get CIE/IE to do the impossible.

flyingsnail

malcox wrote: »

Maybe but the grub was outlandish though. Looking at the pictures I see a lot of sausage jockeys in the picture.

meaning what?

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

thats got to be the most inaccurate first post ive seen for a long while...

In fairness while FlameoftheWest may have got the wrong end of the stick regarding the RPSI tour, understandable as I don’t think he claims to be an enthusiast, but he raises a good point in relation to the different level of catering available on RPSI trains.

For years CIE/IE made a farce of rail catering and now with out-sourcing it is a complete shambles. Instead of offering good value meals/trolley food as an incentive to travel by rail CIE/IE always saw it as yet another way of fleecing the travelling public. Compare this with Norfolk Line who a while back were marketing a Dublin/UK ferry trip with a 'free' meal thrown in! It is all a state of mind and a modicum of clever marketing.

Off course, with Gourmet Rail having to pay CIE/IE for the concession to operate catering services, pay their staff, pay insurance etc. etc. the pressure is really on to fleece to travelling public. I predict that they are not making anything like enough money to keep their concession going and you will see many more routes devoid of even overpriced trolly services before much longer.

Incidentally, I wonder how the Dublin/Sligo (inter city) passenger figures held up for 2009 as there seemed to be quite a lot of problems with 22000s failing or being replaced with the awful Commuter railcars at short notice?

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

You said dining cars on the Sligo route... sales fallen to near zero.. service withdrawn. I said food was pure shít and you said they had chefs and proper facilities, which laterally was definitely not the case.

I used the Sligo line (intercity) once a month for 12 years, and witnessed the food service being run into the ground. Passengers stopped buying food because it wasn't edible.

Listen I am not getting into a slanging match.

The whole catering operation in IE was a disaster in its later years and was completely mismanaged.

Privatising it was probably the right decision.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

Listen I am not getting into a slanging match.

Fair enough, but it looked to me like you were going to say there was no such thing as shít food on the trains.

DWCommuter

KC61 wrote: »

Privatising it was probably the right decision.

Eh...definately not. Unless the contract is customer friendly and equitable without the need to "rob" THE CUSTOMER. But it isn't, is it?

Rail Gourmet are just another corporate excuse to generate profit off the back of poor standards and high prices. There is nothing complicated about this.

loyatemu

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

I also beleived they ran something akin to a Metro style frequency on all the routes for the Pope in 1979.

Apparently the right people can get CIE/IE to do the impossible.

that was one of the biggest events in the history of the state, of course they laid on extra trains. if they do it for GAA matches, they're obviously going to do it for the freakin' Pope!

DWCommuter

loyatemu wrote: »

that was one of the biggest events in the history of the state, of course they laid on extra trains. if they do it for GAA matches, they're obviously going to do it for the freakin' Pope!

What age are you?

The entire CIE operation around the Popes visit was the biggest insult to regular public transport users that could be imagined. Of course they were taking their orders from Maynooth, opps I mean Kildare street, but still it was a gross kick in the head to witness CIE moving people like clockwork for the visit of a religious figure when their day to day operation was a shambles.

Furthermore, they reopened a station for the event ( after refusing it to commuter groups) and then kept it closed after the papa lad had gone back to his gaff in Rome, until it became an obvious option for the Maynooth commuter line reopening. (Begrudgingly)

The visit of the pope to Ireland in 1979 highlighted the extreme national madness associated with a catholic figurehead. Money was poured into all aspects of the visit to the detriment of essential services. CIE deserve no credit for what they did as it was fake.

Judgement Day

This is the Norfolk Line Ad that I referred to in an earlier post - note the reference to the FREE meal - when did you ever see CIE try something innovative like that? Now that they have farmed out the catering such a marketing opportunity no longer exists.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

This is the Norfolk Line Ad that I referred to in an earlier post - note the reference to the FREE meal - when did you ever see CIE try something innovative like that? Now that they have farmed out the catering such a marketing opportunity no longer exists.

Ah come on now, it inclusive, not free. The fare takes into account the cost of the meal rather than a "free" meal on top of the fare price. Still a good price though!

FlameoftheWest

DWCommuter wrote: »

What age are you?

The entire CIE operation around the Popes visit was the biggest insult to regular public transport users that could be imagined. Of course they were taking their orders from Maynooth, opps I mean Kildare street, but still it was a gross kick in the head to witness CIE moving people like clockwork for the visit of a religious figure when their day to day operation was a shambles.

Furthermore, they reopened a station for the event ( after refusing it to commuter groups) and then kept it closed after the papa lad had gone back to his gaff in Rome, until it became an obvious option for the Maynooth commuter line reopening. (Begrudgingly)

The visit of the pope to Ireland in 1979 highlighted the extreme national madness associated with a catholic figurehead. Money was poured into all aspects of the visit to the detriment of essential services. CIE deserve no credit for what they did as it was fake.

Yes that was I heard. They for the Pope pracitically a Swiss Style system on locos and manual signals. I believe the "too small for passenger trains" Phoenix Park Tunnel was like the New Yor Subway that day.

FlameoftheWest

corktina wrote: »

thats got to be the most inaccurate first post ive seen for a long while...

You are missing the point. CIE have a "what do you want lads and we'll make it happen" approach for everyone and everything except the people who are bread and butter customers.

Always been like this. Have you ever seen The Quite Man movie? They were delighted to tell the entire world they were useless.

garfieldsghost

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

You are missing the point. CIE have a "what do you want lads and we'll make it happen" approach for everyone and everything except the people who are bread and butter customers.

Always been like this. Have you ever seen The Quite Man movie? They were delighted to tell the entire world they were useless.

And you, apparently, only read what you want to read. The first few replies to your initial post disproved a lot of the points you were making.

L1011

DWCommuter wrote: »

Eh...definately not. Unless the contract is customer friendly and equitable without the need to "rob" THE CUSTOMER. But it isn't, is it?

Rail Gourmet are just another corporate excuse to generate profit off the back of poor standards and high prices. There is nothing complicated about this.

Do you think they'd have been able to get a contractor if heavier minimum standards were set? really?



No, they wouldn't. Rail Gourmet already operate any service that might, maybe, be profitable*. Had IE put out a contract that required running any number of unprofitable services I doubt anyone would have taken it.

*I've seen full trolly service on a 8 car 29000 running back in to Maynooth on a Friday evening Maynooth service before. They sold a fair bit, too.

corktina

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

You are missing the point. CIE have a "what do you want lads and we'll make it happen" approach for everyone and everything except the people who are bread and butter customers.

Always been like this. Have you ever seen The Quite Man movie? They were delighted to tell the entire world they were useless.

missing the point? well, you did hide it well...:D

csd

FlameOfThe West's arguments simply don't stack up.

An RPSI special with a bar car proves that IE is indifferent to the people of Sligo and their rail service? Come on! The entire line has been relayed and resignalled in the past 10 years, and now has eight through trains a day instead of three. The rolling stock is the youngest you'll find on any line in the country. As others have pointed out, patronage has exploded, and the line is busier than ever.

RPSI specials and the extra trains laid on prove that IE only cares about what those in power want? Come on! Over a million people attended the papal mass -- would it have been better for CIE to do nothing at all just because the day-to-day service wasn't as frequent? If the olympics were ever staged here, would you begrudge a few extra trains for that? Remember, at this time Irish railways were in a parlous state -- the Maynooth commuter service that CIE had to be 'forced' into providing used clapped-out locos and leaky coaching stock because there was no money for anything else. The fact they manage the Phoenix park thing at all was a miracle.

IE are more interested in preservation than providing a service to paying commuters? Sorry, no again. IE's idea of 'preservation' is not scrapping something. Otherwise stock is left to rot -- cf A15 and 6111. Without the RPSI (and ITG) to look after things, there'd be nothing except a few static exhibits for future generations to see. As it is, you and I can take our kids to see santa on a steam train at Christmas.

This may not be important in your world view, but at the very least it does no harm. Taking pot-shots at the RPSI is as misguided as those who tried to hold up the English trainspotter brigade as a malign influence on the provision on rail services in Ireland. If someone else wants to donate their spare time to the preservation of Ireland's industrial heritage, let them at it I say!

/csd

PS
Did I really read that right? Is Mr Wheeler really going to join the English anoraks on an ITG special? My goodness, the lion really is lying down with the lamb here.

Cookie_Monster

well said csd

shamwari

csd wrote: »

Taking pot-shots at the RPSI is as misguided as those who tried to hold up the English trainspotter brigade as a malign influence on the provision on rail services in Ireland....

..... Is Mr Wheeler really going to join the English anoraks on an ITG special?

+2. I need say no more

HeritageRailway

A few points to clarify here....

RPSI trips cant be compared to mainline trips in any way. Their trains are run to preserve transport heritage and history and people travel for fun, amusement and a day out. The trains are wholly manned with volunteer staff save for Irish Rail drivers, a train guard and one onboard observer. The on board canteen and bar are run with 5-6 bodies; if Irish Rail/Rail Gourmet could get staff to work 12 hours on a Sunday for free then I am sure the prices for on board food would drop:)

On the Papal visit, virtually all scheduled mainline passenger and freight trains were canceled to free up loco and carriages for the event. Most staff worked long overtime hours to facilitate the event as indeed did bus drivers; city and provincial buses routes were also cut and adapted for the event. It was very much a one off event that could not be repeated often given the disturbance it created for day to day operations.

Judgement Day

HeritageRailway wrote: »

A few points to clarify here....

RPSI trips cant be compared to mainline trips in any way. Their trains are run to preserve transport heritage and history and people travel for fun, amusement and a day out. The trains are wholly manned with volunteer staff save for Irish Rail drivers, a train guard and one onboard observer. The on board canteen and bar are run with 5-6 bodies; if Irish Rail/Rail Gourmet could get staff to work 12 hours on a Sunday for free then I am sure the prices for on board food would drop:)

On the Papal visit, virtually all scheduled mainline passenger and freight trains were canceled to free up loco and carriages for the event. Most staff worked long overtime hours to facilitate the event as indeed did bus drivers; city and provincial buses routes were also cut and adapted for the event. It was very much a one off event that could not be repeated often given the disturbance it created for day to day operations.

Your post is OK but don't start letting CIE/Rail Gourmet off the hook with the volunteer arguement - it is a red herring! Properly operated rail catering can make a profit or at worst breakeven. That said CIE have not operated rail catering properly in living memory - badly paid, badly motivated staff leading to wholesale sackings some years ago for theft - need I go on?

Catering on the Sligo line was an 'interesting' experience in the pre-MkII era and I well remember a period when a full 60ft Kitchen car operated on the route - from which the only service available was a tray carried down the train by the one member of staff rostered! Is that any way to run a railway?

DWCommuter

csd wrote: »

PS
Did I really read that right? Is Mr Wheeler really going to join the English anoraks on an ITG special? My goodness, the lion really is lying down with the lamb here.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.:D

Sponge Bob

DWCommuter wrote: »

Be afraid. Be very afraid.:D

I remember CIE drivers holding the (scheduled) train for us as we legged it back from the pub near the station, don't get that any more

alpha2zulu

"Spotted" this over on IRN...while I wish irish railways were faster and with better timetables etc,personally I think this snippet fits in with everything thats wrong with IE/CIE if its true....
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/38735/t/MK3-News.html

lord lucan

alpha2zulu wrote: »

"Spotted" this over on IRN...while I wish irish railways were faster and with better timetables etc,personally I think this snippet fits in with everything thats wrong with IE/CIE if its true....
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/38735/t/MK3-News.html

No arguments here. Excellent Rolling Stock,far more comfortable than any shiny new railcars and only being withdrawn because of IE's seemingly salacious urge to withdraw all loco's and rolling stock and banish orange and black to the history books. The MKIII's were arguably the most comfortable coaching stock ever to run on irish rails,they have plenty of life left in them but sadly IE deem them surplus to requirements.

Can't plug in my laptop on the old stuff.

Let 'em burn/rot/be preserved by volunteers.

KC61

alpha2zulu wrote: »

"Spotted" this over on IRN...while I wish irish railways were faster and with better timetables etc,personally I think this snippet fits in with everything thats wrong with IE/CIE if its true....
http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/sreply/38735/t/MK3-News.html

I have to say that I would tend to agree. I do find this rather disturbing.

IE, since the introduction of the new timetable, have been severely stretched from a resource perspective with regard to Intercity rolling stock.

The 0740 ex-Waterford is still a 3-piece railcar on Mondays due to the way the sets end up on Sundays, which is ludicrous for a train that calls at all stations along the route.

There are all sorts of jigging around with sets on Fridays to ensure that all the trains going to Mayo (excepting the 1530) are 6-piece railcars.

It would be fair comment to say that staff at operational level have been deeply frustrated by this and stretched to the limit. There have been regular instances of buses having to be used because the trains are full to capacity (especially on the Mayo route).

Yet, IE seem to be quite happy to restore a Mark 3 set, at some public expense, for an enthusiast's railtour (unlike the RPSI operation which is funded entirely by the RPSI), albeit for charitable purposes, while not seeming minded to then retain it as a spare set at Heuston thus freeing up a six piece railcar and making everyone's life a bit easier, both staff and customers. I hope that I am proved wrong.

The other part of this that I find rather galling is that it is to operate along the Western Rail Corridor, when every other train on the route will be operated by 2700 Class railcars. Now I have nothing against the railcars - they have proved very reliable in recent years. In fact I think they will be fine on the route.

However, surely to God someone in senior IE management can see that this is sending out the wrong signals in so many ways? For goodness sake, when Midleton was launched the Minister travelled on a 2600 set like everyone else.

Someone somewhere in IE needs to cop on to themselves as this is truly madness.

Judgement Day

KC61 - you must remember the 'special relationship' that exists between CIE and the tenants of the old Goods Offices at Heuston. The IRRS was formed only a year after CIE and I quote from their own website 'When the Irish Railway Record Society was formed in 1946, Ireland was served by a railway network owned and operated by ten separate private companies.' Somethings change but like the poor, CIE and the IRRS will always be with us. In its entire existence I doubt whether the IRRS Journal has ever carried an article remotely critical of CIE - they are there to record not comment - and they they would happily record the running of the last train in Ireland without a whimper as long as they were able to photograph it/travel on it/write down the carriage numbers and afterwards retire to an hotel to have a chicken dinner with senior CIE management to commemorate the event. That is why they have always received 'special' treatment.

PS I was a member of the IRRS for more than twenty years so I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about.

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

KC61 - you must remember the 'special relationship' that exists between CIE and the tenants of the old Goods Offices at Heuston. The IRRS was formed only a year after CIE and I quote from their own website 'When the Irish Railway Record Society was formed in 1946, Ireland was served by a railway network owned and operated by ten separate private companies.' Somethings change but like the poor, CIE and the IRRS will always be with us. In its entire existence I doubt whether the IRRS Journal has ever carried an article remotely critical of CIE - they are there to record not comment - and they they would happily record the running of the last train in Ireland without a whimper as long as they were able to photograph it/travel on it/write down the carriage numbers and afterwards retire to an hotel to have a chicken dinner with senior CIE management to commemorate the event. That is why they have always received 'special' treatment.

PS I was a member of the IRRS for more than twenty years so I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about.

I don't have an issue with the IRRS per se - their remit is purely a "record". It is not their function to be a critical lobby group. And I am not going to start getting into a "bash the IRRS" argument.

What I have an issue with is the use of taxpayers' money to restore a train that has been out of use for some time to serviceable status purely for a railtour while the current fleet is being stretched to the limit, and also using it on a line which is not going to see similar trains for the foreseeable future. It is sending all the wrong messages out.

DWCommuter

KC61 wrote: »

I don't have an issue with the IRRS per se - their remit is purely a "record". It is not their function to be a critical lobby group. And I am not going to start getting into a "bash the IRRS" argument.

What I have an issue with is the use of taxpayers' money to restore a train that has been out of use for some time to serviceable status purely for a railtour while the current fleet is being stretched to the limit, and also using it on a line which is not going to see similar trains for the foreseeable future. It is sending all the wrong messages out.

Amen to that.

parsi

lord lucan wrote: »

No arguments here. Excellent Rolling Stock,far more comfortable than any shiny new railcars and only being withdrawn because of IE's seemingly salacious urge to withdraw all loco's and rolling stock and banish orange and black to the history books. The MKIII's were arguably the most comfortable coaching stock ever to run on irish rails,they have plenty of life left in them but sadly IE deem them surplus to requirements.

I preferred the Mk IId - the good old Supertrain. Comfortable, high build quality.

newmug

Just stumbled across this thread. The pic in the first post isnt working:( What is it?

Damokc

think he was served this on a train in the 80s
:rolleyes: