Season 9 top secret project *shhh*

daveharnett

Some of you might be aware that blackout's XML API is well underway.
To the non-techies, this is a way to make blackout's information - the screens that you and I can see more accessible to 3rd party programs like BRAT, friendly tournament offsites and so on.

The API also makes it possible for managers to allow programs to access information that is normally only visible to the managers themselves. For example, rather than cutting and pasting pages into BRAT, you will now be able to give BRAT a key, which will allow it to go fetch your information for you.

It's a long way from finished, but at the current rate of progress a lot of it will be available by the start of season 9.



If people are interested, I think this presents an opportunity for learn more about how the match engine works. The idea is to have a bunch of totally transparent matches. Everybody can see the results, the match stats, and the stats of all the players involved in the matches. With a big enough data set and some tools to make sense of it, I think we could learn a lot about how best to make our teams stronger.

This is not a tournament, matches would take place as time permitted.

The cost of all this is that everybody involved would have to lay their cards on the table in a big way. Managers involved in this project would have full access to all the historical stats, skills etc... of everybody else's players (or at least the players involved in friendly matches).

Bank balances, training regimens and other sensitive club data would remain private, but it would be possible for admins (ie me) to access this data if I were feeling nefarious. Managers could opt out at any time: changing one's username or password on BR would invalidate the api key used to access manager info.

Needless to say, any information or insights gained from the project would remain strictly within the group, with the possible exception of information which could be useful to the national and U21 managers.

So in principle, would you be interested in either or both of these scenarios:

A: Membership is limited to a small group, and everything is entirely transparent.

B: Membership is available to everybody who passes the basic security checks on the Irish offsite. Player and Club details are anonomised, so that it would be quite difficult (no guarantees!) to link members/players to their BR identities and clubs.

eoferrall

Is this an idea forming on the offsite and is there a thread on it? I would be interested in throwing my name into the hat for a season. how long would the testing be for?

daveharnett

eoferrall wrote: »

Is this an idea forming on the offsite and is there a thread on it? I would be interested in throwing my name into the hat for a season. how long would the testing be for?

This idea is only here for the moment until I have a clearer picture of what i'm doing. I really don't know wrt duration, it could go on indefinately, but there would be a mechanism for managers to come and go.

eoferrall

daveharnett wrote: »

This idea is only here for the moment until I have a clearer picture of what i'm doing. I really don't know wrt duration, it could go on indefinately, but there would be a mechanism for managers to come and go.

So this will be a boards initiative, help us take over the world (well really the BR world!)

Ok I would be willing to join it and see how it goes for a trial run at minimum.

It would certainly help with identifying the stats that are vital and secondary for the positions (rather than opinion!)

Oisinjm

I'll throw my name in. Sure why not?

crisco10

I'd be well interested in joing this. As long as people didn't judge me on how my players do!

eoferrall

crisco10 wrote: »

I'd be well interested in joing this. As long as people didn't judge me on how my players do!

Maybe they will respect you more when they see you achievements with a limited squad... think positive!

johnnysmack

il give it a go too

dreamer_ire

I'll throw my name in too Dave.

FewFew

Sounds interesting Dave.

So, if I get this right... you're going to know all the data going into these matches and hoping to use the data to figure out the match engine? Do you have some sort of super program for this?

I'd probably prefer it if information was kept with yourself and those involved only found out the results of the experiment... especially since many of us are going to start ending up in head-to-head situations alot more in the coming seasons (when we take over Div 3... then 2... then the Dutchies! Wuhhahaha)

daveharnett

Fewcifur wrote: »

So, if I get this right... you're going to know all the data going into these matches and hoping to use the data to figure out the match engine? Do you have some sort of super program for this?

That's the idea. I don't know of any magic programs that can figure it all out for us, but there are lots of tools that can help to make sense of things.

Fewcifur wrote: »

I'd probably prefer it if information was kept with yourself and those involved only found out the results of the experiment... especially since many of us are going to start ending up in head-to-head situations alot more in the coming seasons (when we take over Div 3... then 2... then the Dutchies! Wuhhahaha)

I'm know my way around a computer, but i'm no maths genius. I think the more people who can play around with the data, contribute and discuss ideas, the more we can learn.

Your concern about giving loads of information to opponents is a valid one though. What do you think about option B (anonymous data)?

eoferrall

daveharnett wrote: »

That's the idea. I don't know of any magic programs that can figure it all out for us, but there are lots of tools that can help to make sense of things.


I'm know my way around a computer, but i'm no maths genius. I think the more people who can play around with the data, contribute and discuss ideas, the more we can learn.

Your concern about giving loads of information to opponents is a valid one though. What do you think about option B (anonymous data)?

I would prefer the anonymous data option, though clearly someone is going to be able to match them up. but if that was kept to a minimum of people then thats all good.

I'm no genius at maths, but did it in college... so might be able to lend a hand, but I know NOTHING about programming etc. sure once you have a plan lay it out and people can offer whereever they think their skills sets tie in.

Fewcifer - I concur, in 2-3 seasons we shall make division I oirish again!:D

satory

I'd be interested in helping out.

I was planning on creating a BRAT like tool, using the API in the summer when Im finished my masters, But if this is a community thing it would be better to be invloved with it.

crisco10

I would also be willing to help in analysis if needed. Not a maths genius but did engineering so been exposed to a good amount of statistics etc....

finbar_omahony

There is something about this which i would like to know, and i am talking about all these programs not just Brat or yours.

Can these tools be used to "steal" information off managers, to be perfectly honest i dont really see a problem with it, because even if a manager knew all your players it doesnt make a huge amount of difference to their tactics apart from wnwim and ltnt

But what are the chances that our private information could be uploaded into the creaters or some scrupulous persons possession, like think of it this way, if someone had all my details and from what i have read also passwords, they would be able to get my credit card details or possibly just buy subscriptions with my credit, card...

its worth thinking about

daveharnett

finbar_omahony wrote: »

There is something about this which i would like to know, and i am talking about all these programs not just Brat or yours.

Can these tools be used to "steal" information off managers, to be perfectly honest i dont really see a problem with it, because even if a manager knew all your players it doesnt make a huge amount of difference to their tactics apart from wnwim and ltnt

But what are the chances that our private information could be uploaded into the creaters or some scrupulous persons possession, like think of it this way, if someone had all my details and from what i have read also passwords, they would be able to get my credit card details or possibly just buy subscriptions with my credit, card...

its worth thinking about

It's a valid concern to a point.

Your 'access key' (the 'password' that programs will be asking you for) will allow anybody who knows it to access information which is normally only available to you. This includes all the information about your players (full stats, skills history etc.), your accounting info, and probably your tactics, youth academy and so on.

Before you give any program your access key, be sure you trust the creator with the above information, and that you trust him to keep it secure.



As far as i'm concerned, that's as far as the trust/security problem goes. The 'access key' does not allow anybody to change anything - it allows read only access. It also does not (and i'm confident will never) allow anybody to view or change any account information (passwords, payment info etc).

The only concern I would have in this regard is social engineering. For instance, if a website/app/forum related to blackout requires you to login, make sure to use a different password to the one you use for BR.


Edit: I should add that the user can change their access key whenever they like, preventing any further access from the old key. Changing your password also changes your key.

Orizio

I'd be in if you do it.

Leadership

Sounds like a great plan, I can be guinea pig

Orizio

How is this going Dave?

daveharnett

Orizio wrote: »

How is this going Dave?

Slowly. Spending an hour here and there figuring out how best to transfer data from BR to a database.

After that, I think that the initial front end should be handy enough.