Will bishops and the Vatican be charged in Irish courts?

Rebelheart

I'm still wondering this. Given that it is now established that members of the hierarchy colluded against citizens and the state in protecting criminals and not reporting crimes to the state, will the Irish state be prosecuting these senior members of the hierarchy?

Given also that a sovereign state, the Vatican, has directed this through its instructions and protected criminals from Irish law will the state also do more than call in the Vatican state's representative in Ireland and think about expelling them?

Here is a very sobering letter from Marie Collins ('Reporting allegations of child abuse'), who as most of you probably know is a victim of child abuse. It was published in yesterday's Irish Times and includes excerpts from the Murphy Report which make it clear that the Vatican ordered the hierarchy not to co-operate with the Irish state and to report all allegations of abuse to Rome first and to only report them to Dublin if authorised by Rome.

As an Irish Catholic, this is seriously disturbing stuff. It's at least treason on the part of senior members of the hierarchy, whom I had formerly believed were also Irish first, and Roman Catholic somewhere after that. I've no doubts now of their loyalties, sadly.

Galvasean

The Vatican won't be charged by the Irish courts as it is a different country. Also the Pope has diplomatic immunity.
You might see a few bishops getting prosecuted as scapegoats, but expect most of the wrongdoers to walk free.

Xluna

Yeah sure,along with the corrupt bankers and politcians.

Rebelheart

Galvasean wrote: »

The Vatican won't be charged by the Irish courts as it is a different country. Also the Pope has diplomatic immunity.

Fair enough. Is there any international forum where action could be taken against the Vatican? It seems indisputable now that they were directly behind protecting these people and undermining another sovereign state's criminal investigations and that state's protection of its citizens.

OutlawPete

Rebelheart wrote: »

Is there any international forum where action could be taken against the Vatican?

You could try the Help Desk :pac:

Seriously though, they have too much money and power.

They don't care about kids being abused, this is all a face saving exercise, nothing more and nothing less.

Rebelheart

Xluna wrote: »

Yeah sure,along with the corrupt bankers and politcians.

Apparently - apparently - the state is investigating the former. You are probably right about the latter. Frank Dunlop is looking more and more like a scapegoat now, rather than the first imprisonment of many political types.

Fluffybums

Sadly the short answer is no.

However, if the bishops are representative of the Church of Rome which is itself a state (Vatican) it would be interesting to see if the papal nuncio (Vatican ambassador) could be called in by the government and asked to withdraw its representatives. I think normal diplomatic niceties allow 5 days for the withdrawal. Any other country with representative who blatantly the laws and ignore the government would be asked to withdraw some representatives.

MaybeLogic

I don't believe so, OP, as AFAIK the law making it illegal not to report a crime was taken off the statute books a few years ago.

Fluffybums

MaybeLogic wrote: »

I don't believe so, OP, as AFAIK the law making it illegal not to report a crime was taken off the statute books a few years ago.

I wonder why.................

Biggins

Will bishops and the Vatican be charged in Irish courts?

Honestly? No.
Due to any number of miserable line-up of excuses that will be used.

ballsymchugh

there were also some gardai involved in not chasing up the abusers too, leaving it to the church to police themselves. some of them probably knew as much as the bishops did (this might be a lot, or a little) and they also failed to act. should they be charged too?

dlofnep

No. So long as you're a banker or a priest, you'll get away with anything in this country.

Son Of A Vidic

It would be a dream come true - accountability.

goose2005

Galvasean wrote: »

The Vatican won't be charged by the Irish courts as it is a different country. Also the Pope has diplomatic immunity.
You might see a few bishops getting prosecuted as scapegoats, but expect most of the wrongdoers to walk free.

We could ask for Vatican citizens to be extradited. Or we could do what they did to Noriega, which would be more fun

ballsymchugh wrote: »

there were also some gardai involved in not chasing up the abusers too, leaving it to the church to police themselves. some of them probably knew as much as the bishops did (this might be a lot, or a little) and they also failed to act. should they be charged too?

Not only that, the gardaí also helped round up girls who escaped the laundries

StudentDad

The only way the Irish Hierarchy will listen and maybe allow some accountability is if every single practicising and other RC in Ireland turns their back on them and we have a good old fashioned boycott. It won't happen though.

The chances of the Church freely acting in a transparent manner and accepting responsibility for their actions are to my mind anyway, extremely slim. It'd be right up there with Gerry Adams at the head of an Orange Order Parade next summer.

SD

Mike 1972

Rebelheart wrote: »

Will bishops and the Vatican be charged in Irish courts? .

How exactly does one go about prosecuting a soverign state in another countries court system ?

I mean will we charge Israel in the Irish courts over the passports thing ?

dvpower

Galvasean wrote: »

You might see a few bishops getting prosecuted as scapegoats, but expect most of the wrongdoers to walk free.

Almost as likely as seeing the Pope slop out in Mountjoy, I'd say.

Mike 1972

dvpower wrote: »

Almost as likely as seeing the Pope slop out in Mountjoy, I'd say.

Bishops (like Government ministers) dont go to jail. They "resign" (while keeping their salary/pensions)