In the Netherlands, 1 Gbps Broadband Will Soon Be Everywhere

probe

http://www.nytimes.com/external/gigaom/2010/02/19/19gigaom-in-the-netherlands-1-gbps-broadband-will-soon-be-84079.html

Google is also in the process of using Gigabit internet with up to 500,000 people in a trial to spread the word.

In the US the cable companies have a tight monopoly grip on internet access in most areas. Their agenda is to make people watch pay TV channels - they don't want video delivered the internet to compete with their main money making machine. Google hopes to break this dependency on cable to open up the net to become a single platform for delivering everything audio-visual.

In Ireland, UPC's monopoly on cable is preventing competition, limiting the choice of TV channels (without everyone putting up ugly satellite dishes - which isn't possible for many households who don't have a south facing aspect), offers appalling sound quality on radio and TV, and is incapable of scaling when it comes to high usage densities for internet. i.e. if you use cable internet, you are better off living in an area where few other people use it - so you get the limited amount of bandwidth available.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/think-big-with-gig-our-experimental.html

dlofnep

I'd be suprised if the entire globe isn't like that in 10 years from now - VoIP, E-TV with playback, etc..

Sounds good though! Alas, as you've said - competition isn't high enough here yet to bring it sooner.

jimmycrackcorm

If you read up about the 1 Gbps broadband you'd know it was where fibre to the home is in place. As UPC don't have this they hardly have a monopoly on this. You might as well point out that eircom is preventing anyone else from replacing their copper lines with fibre.

probe

Be sure to watch Google's official video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wusklcNKDZc

Google's Gigabit fibre network will be open to competing service providers.

In contrast with the government protected cable monopolies in the US and Ireland.

It is time Ireland gave people an alternative to the UPC customer exploiting and abusing monopoly - by building on the investment in "fibre rings" around towns to bring the country's communications and entertainment infrastructure into the 21st century. Most of the fibre capacity in the country at the moment leads to a cul-de-sac of nowhereness - because it doesn't go down the last km to the customer.

The task could be combined in a single job creating project - installing fibre, fixing water mains leaks and perhaps completing other locally needed infrastructure fixes (eg footpaths etc) at the same time (at little marginal extra cost by coordinating the exercise), using multiple public/private partnerships to fund the operation.

Jonathan

probe wrote: »

In Ireland, UPC's monopoly on cable is preventing competition

lol.

After spending millions upgrading a network, you should be forced to open it up to the competition?

probe

Jonathan wrote: »

lol.

After spending millions upgrading a network, you should be forced to open it up to the competition?

UPC has done a half-baked job.
No fibre to the premises.
No EuroDOCSIS3.
No choice of TV - aside from British/Irish - and token Euronews/TV5. No soundtrack options - each Euronews language option wastes an entire video channel as well! Dumb American company.
Is it any wonder that multi-nationals in Ireland have to employ non-Irish staff to deal with phone calls etc? One of the best way to become fluent in languages is to watch TV.

UPC is an American company participating in the Anglo-Saxon cultural war on the planet to force the English language down everybody's throat. Which countries are doing best in the current recession? Luxembourg and Switzerland where everybody can glide from one language to another effortlessly....

While UPC has an operation in Switzerland*, there is no way that any Swiss canton or the Swiss Confederation would allow UPC to get away with the rubbish service the company provides in Ireland.

UPC IRL gets numerous complaints on the net about unreachability on the phone, appalling internet service, billing surcharges, etc etc.

*http://www.cablecom.ch

IrishTonyO

probe wrote: »

UPC has done a half-baked job.
No fibre to the premises.
No EuroDOCSIS3.
No choice of TV - aside from British/Irish - and token Euronews/TV5. No soundtrack options - each Euronews language option wastes an entire video channel as well! Dumb American company.
Is it any wonder that multi-nationals in Ireland have to employ non-Irish staff to deal with phone calls etc? One of the best way to become fluent in languages is to watch TV.

UPC is an American company participating in the Anglo-Saxon cultural war on the planet to force the English language down everybody's throat. Which countries are doing best in the current recession? Luxembourg and Switzerland where everybody can glide from one language to another effortlessly....

While UPC has an operation in Switzerland*, there is no way that any Swiss canton or the Swiss Confederation would allow UPC to get away with the rubbish service the company provides in Ireland.

UPC IRL gets numerous complaints on the net about unreachability on the phone, appalling internet service, billing surcharges, etc etc.

*http://www.cablecom.ch

UPC are in the process of providing DOCSIS3, also it is their network, they built it etc. nothing stopping the government or other companies doing the same. Even with the problems with UPC they still provide the the fastest service in most areas and are going to 120 mbps this year.
So maybe your complaints should be against the government and other companies for doing nothing rather than at UPC who have done something.

Jonathan

probe wrote: »

UPC has done a half-baked job.
No fibre to the premises.
No EuroDOCSIS3.
No choice of TV - aside from British/Irish - and token Euronews/TV5. No soundtrack options - each Euronews language option wastes an entire video channel as well! Dumb American company.
Is it any wonder that multi-nationals in Ireland have to employ non-Irish staff to deal with phone calls etc? One of the best way to become fluent in languages is to watch TV.

There is nothing stopping you setting up your own cable network probe.

probe

The thread here is “In the Netherlands, 1 Gbps Broadband Will Soon Be Everywhere”.

Does UPC propose to install an open 1 GBps fibre to the premises network in Ireland?

If so, when? And geographic coverage plans, SVP…

If not, Ireland needs to move to a plan B to install fibre.

Else, Ireland will continue in the third-world broadband rankings.

Because UPC’s network is not open to competition, offers a very culturally sanitized choice of programming, and is unreliable.

And UPC constantly abuses its monopoly position in the marketplace.

My complaint is against the government for giving UPC a monopoly in the marketspace. It seems to me that it is incumbent on the government to redress the position, by putting the wheels in motion to roll out open FTTP.

Jonathan

probe wrote: »

My complaint is against the government for giving UPC a monopoly in the marketspace. It seems to me that it is incumbent on the government to redress the position, by putting the wheels in motion to roll out open FTTP.

They haven't given UPC a monopoly in the market place. Nobody else has bothered to enter the market place!

Sponge Bob

Jonathan wrote: »

They haven't given UPC a monopoly in the market place. Nobody else has bothered to enter the market place!

Nobody was actually allowed to until 2002 or 2003 and then some did.

chillin_penguin

COMING TO IRELAND.....................in 2020 if we are lucky

probe

Jonathan wrote: »

They haven't given UPC a monopoly in the market place. Nobody else has bothered to enter the market place!

The government hasn't bothered to plan for an FTTP platform for the country.

Meanwhile UPC is engaged in providing a third rate platform, "to fool most of the people most of the time". Abusing its customer base in the process.

UPC has a monopoly, granted by comreg.ie / gov.ie to deliver cable services to a majority of the population of IRL - until gov.ie/comreg.ie puts in train an open FTTH infrastructure to make best use of the nation's existing national and international fibre connectivity.

I have no problem with UPC trying to compete with an open FTTH network. Or participating in it as a service provider in competition with others.

As it stands Ireland / UPC is throwing good money after bad with the current set-up.

In the same way as Celtic Tiger ejits wasted money on apartments in remote areas of Turkey or Afghanistan which they can't let to the natives and which can't be reached by themselves or tourist renters without three connecting flights and a car rental. While the apartment might have looked cheap at €25,000, they really need a NetJet card to get there in one flight to a close-by airport/airfield to visit the place a few times a year... A villa in Cap Ferrat, next door to Paul Allen would be cheaper in the long run.

Better and cheaper to get the job done right first time around.

IrishTonyO

probe wrote: »

The government hasn't bothered to plan for an FTTP platform for the country.

Meanwhile UPC is engaged in providing a third rate platform, "to fool most of the people most of the time". Abusing its customer base in the process.

UPC has a monopoly, granted by comreg.ie / gov.ie to deliver cable services to a majority of the population of IRL - until gov.ie/comreg.ie puts in train an open FTTH infrastructure to make best use of the nation's existing national and international fibre connectivity.

I have no problem with UPC trying to compete with an open FTTH network. Or participating in it as a service provider in competition with others.

As it stands Ireland / UPC is throwing good money after bad with the current set-up.

In the same way as Celtic Tiger ejits wasted money on apartments in remote areas of Turkey or Afghanistan which they can't let to the natives and which can't be reached by themselves or tourist renters without three connecting flights and a car rental. While the apartment might have looked cheap at €25,000, they really need a NetJet card to get there in one flight to a close-by airport/airfield to visit the place a few times a year... A villa in Cap Ferrat, next door to Paul Allen would be cheaper in the long run.

Better and cheaper to get the job done right first time around.

There is NOTHING stopping other companies setting up their own networks if they want to, comreg/gov.ie as you put it do not stop other companies setting up a cable network. So if it is all so easy why don't they????? UPC are different to Eircom, where in Eircom the infrastructure was originally paid for by the tax payer, it is therefore right they should have to open up their network to competition. Think you will find the tax payer did not pay for UPC's cable network, so why should they have to give competitors access to their 'private' network?

Jonathan

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nobody was actually allowed to until 2002 or 2003 and then some did.

Were the licences required for rebroadcasting of tv signals or for providing broadband?

Sponge Bob

probe wrote: »

UPC has a monopoly, granted by comreg.ie / gov.ie to deliver cable services to a majority of the population of IRL

UPC does not have a monopoly and never has had. Its predecessors had monopolies in certain areas for cable tv BUT that was before UPC bought them.

Holland is only getting gigabit fibre to 90% of homes not 100% of homes.

Homes enabled with fibre in Holland from 2011 onwards will be able to get 'up to' 10 gigabits not up to 1gigabit I will have you know

Please stop confusing UPC with universal Fibre initiatives like Holland or the Portugese cities.

UPC will only ever offer hybrid coax fibre to at most 1 in 3 homes.

54kroc

Would the ESB not be best placed to offer 1Gbps before anyone else?

probe

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Please stop confusing UPC with universal Fibre initiatives like Holland or the Portugese cities.

I'm not "confusing" UPC with universal fibre. I'm saying that Ireland needs FTTP - open FTTP infrastructure. And a momentum to get it going, from the top.

I am saying that UPC provides an appalling service in Ireland - far worse than elsewhere in Europe in my experience. UPC generally charge more and offer less in Europe compared with numericable.fr, numericable.be, etc.

UPC is very careful to retain the Chorus and NTL entities in its small print. Do you have chapter and verse please in relation to "BUT that was before UPC bought them"?

Sponge Bob

probe wrote: »

I'm not "confusing" UPC with universal fibre. I'm saying that Ireland needs FTTP - open FTTP infrastructure. And a momentum to get it going, from the top.

Ireland certainly needs a universal FTTA ( area ) plan.

I am saying that UPC provides an appalling service in Ireland - far worse than elsewhere in Europe in my experience. UPC generally charge more and offer less in Europe compared with numericable.fr, numericable.be, etc.

This is largely because the only competition is a bankrupt eircom and a second rate mobile service with insufficient spectrum and cell density to offer meaningful bandwith nationally.

DingDong

probe wrote: »

No fibre to the premises.

UPC do provide fibre to premises, it has a large number of customers ranging from the government,banks and even rival ISP's(It not a closed shop as you think probe) to name just a few. If your interested yourself you should contact the upc business department

No EuroDOCSIS3.

EuroDocsis3 UBR's are currently being installed. Which will supply up to a 120/10 Mbps connection. UPC NL are already testing pushing these speed further.

No choice of TV - aside from British/Irish - and token Euronews/TV5. No soundtrack options - each Euronews language option wastes an entire video channel as well! Dumb American company.

Euronews audio track is the only difference on each channel its just one video channel.

Is it any wonder that multi-nationals in Ireland have to employ non-Irish staff to deal with phone calls etc? One of the best way to become fluent in languages is to watch TV.

I agree with you on this. A few more non-English channels would improve the channel line up.

UPC is an American company participating in the Anglo-Saxon cultural war on the planet to force the English language down everybody's throat.

Humm Conspiracy Theories forum

Probe every thread you start ends up with you bashing UPC, Which happens to be the only company investing millions every year into their network and supporting a large number of jobs in the process. Its not FTTH but it is fibre to within at least 250m of the home. Should they chose to go to a FTTH network they can always build on this.

probe

cork45 wrote: »

Would the ESB not be best placed to offer 1Gbps before anyone else?

They could roll/run fibre around/alongside their existing electricity cables without any technical problems (electricity and laser beams don't fight with each other).

The ESB is such a dozy, dead, monopoly, I doubt if there is a hope of anything coming from that direction.

Gonzo

probe wrote: »

UPC has done a half-baked job.
No fibre to the premises.
No EuroDOCSIS3.
No choice of TV - aside from British/Irish - and token Euronews/TV5. No soundtrack options - each Euronews language option wastes an entire video channel as well! Dumb American company.
Is it any wonder that multi-nationals in Ireland have to employ non-Irish staff to deal with phone calls etc? One of the best way to become fluent in languages is to watch TV.

UPC is an American company participating in the Anglo-Saxon cultural war on the planet to force the English language down everybody's throat. Which countries are doing best in the current recession? Luxembourg and Switzerland where everybody can glide from one language to another effortlessly....

While UPC has an operation in Switzerland*, there is no way that any Swiss canton or the Swiss Confederation would allow UPC to get away with the rubbish service the company provides in Ireland.

UPC IRL gets numerous complaints on the net about unreachability on the phone, appalling internet service, billing surcharges, etc etc.

*http://www.cablecom.ch

I am gonna go offtrack here but the main reason why UPC here is offering such a narrow minded English-Language related TV service is to do with Sky. Sky Digital is the worst thing to ever happen to TV in Ireland since the late 90s from a 'cultural' point of view. with its 100% UK and Ireland concentratated orbital positon using it's own Astra Satellite independant from the Pan-European service which is 19.2 degree's East.. Sky Analogue used to be at the pan-european location with loads of channels from Netherlands, Germany & Scandinavia with a few from Spain. All the channels for Ireland are located on this UK focused Astra 21 degree East positon so UPC just use all the channels from that location.

Jonathan

probe wrote: »

They could roll/run fibre around/alongside their existing electricity cables without any technical problems (electricity and laser beams don't fight with each other).

The ESB is such a dozy, dead, monopoly, I doubt if there is a hope of anything coming from that direction.

They have done.

But I guess you are too dozy or dead to realise.

PogMoThoin

probe wrote: »

They could roll/run fibre around/alongside their existing electricity cables without any technical problems (electricity and laser beams don't fight with each other).

The ESB is such a dozy, dead, monopoly, I doubt if there is a hope of anything coming from that direction.

Needs to be shotgun resistant, when the farmers who's land is crossed get wind of it they get greedy and shoot the cables. There's no agreement with them for this

paulm17781

probe wrote: »

UPC has done a half-baked job.
No fibre to the premises.
No EuroDOCSIS3.

As opposed to Eircom who have been investing heavily in next gen services and consistently being ahead of the competition? :rolleyes:

Jumpy

Public Ducting would also be needed before any last mile stuff could get off the ground.
I wonder sometimes why they dont use waste pipes in those areas that dont have septic tanks.
I would think that they would be easier to run than a whole new dig and when the cables reach the house it would be a simple job to reseal the pipe around the extruding cable.
Fibre is waterproof.

Personally though, all the current infrastructure to the home is run by companies, unless the goverment have their own public scheme then I cant see it happening.
Companies exist to make profit, they cannot be expected to go over and above that.
Also due to the current budget cutbacks, Ireland will be lucky to see a last mile goverment scheme within the next decade, it simply isnt feasible.
You can dream all you like, but we dont have the same funding as other Euro countries.

probe

Gonzo wrote: »

I am gonna go offtrack here but the main reason why UPC here is offering such a narrow minded English-Language related TV service is to do with Sky. Sky Digital is the worst thing to ever happen to TV in Ireland since the late 90s from a 'cultural' point of view. with its 100% UK and Ireland concentratated orbital positon using it's own Astra Satellite independant from the Pan-European service which is 19.2 degree's East.. Sky Analogue used to be at the pan-european location with loads of channels from Netherlands, Germany & Scandinavia with a few from Spain. All the channels for Ireland are located on this UK focused Astra 21 degree East positon so UPC just use all the channels from that location.

Anyone - even a dysfunctional American cable TV company can put up a satellite dish at 19.2 degrees east and deliver services to their customers from it.

RTE and gov.ie supported Sky by making RTE services available on satellites in the 28.2 E in the "Anglo-Saxon anti-European" space that Murdoch funded on Astra to push his nasty media agenda.

Captain Chaos

probe wrote: »

I am saying that UPC provides an appalling service in Ireland

UPC were one of the few to step up the plate in this country. Magnet are the only other ones and their service is terrible and overpriced. I had the pleasure if being one of their customers for a year.

UPC on the other hand for me provide better service than anyone else and at better value for money than anyone else that I can see. The package I'm on, 15Mb connection, I actually get the speed I pay for unlike other ISPs, digital basic (don't actually watch TV myself), and unlimited off peak and weekend calls for €60 per month.

If another company can top that for me bring it on, I'll thank them for it.
I personally can't see the need for higher than 50Mb connections for domestic installations though. Unless you want future proofing.

probe

Jonathan wrote: »

They have done.

But I guess you are too dozy or dead to realise.

I'm talking about FTTP. Ireland has no shortage of long-haul and international fibre connectivity. The problem is the last km. ESB has done nothing about that.

Jumpy

probe wrote: »

I'm talking about FTTP. Ireland has no shortage of long-haul and international fibre connectivity. The problem is the last km. ESB has done nothing about that.

What incentive do they have to do so? Re-read the part I stated in my earlier post that says "Companies exist to make profit".
It would require a goverment scheme. Which in theory could be run via ESB Supply, however, if it wasnt thought of during the boom, you are certainly not going to see it right now.

probe

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I personally can't see the need for higher than 50Mb connections for domestic installations though. Unless you want future proofing.

How long does it take you to download an HD movie (BluRay standard) at 50 Mbits/sec? 5 to 10 hours..... And that is just 1080p stuff.

3D TV is a lot more bandwidth hungry - 3D TVs are on the market already.

After that gets boring along will come holographic imagery which will fill your living room with a 3D experience.

Do they dig up the road and install new kit every time we move to another generation of video technology?

Or install an infrastructure that can handle the future?

Sponge Bob

Jumpy wrote: »

I wonder sometimes why they dont use waste pipes in those areas that dont have septic tanks.
I would think that they would be easier to run than a whole new dig and when the cables reach the house it would be a simple job to reseal the pipe around the extruding cable.
Fibre is waterproof.

The good news is that they are starting.

http://www.forfas.ie/media/forfas100121-Regional-Competitiveness-Agendas-Overview.pdf

Roll-out of Broadband in Dundalk
‘Last mile’ connection issues continue to hamper the roll-out of broadband access to many SMEs and households. National level efforts will have to be made to provide an appropriate framework for the roll out of broadband to premises. However, local broadband access solutions are possible in the interim, as is demonstrated through Louth County Council’s recruitment of a UK based company, H2O Networks (see link below), to provide a fibre connection from its buildings to the local MANs and backhaul infrastructure.

H2O use existing waste-water infrastructure to obtain access to buildings for fibre connections, avoiding much of the cost and disruption of digging to lay fibre underground. Such novel connection techniques could be exploited in other areas to improve local broadband access in a cost effective way, in advance of a more comprehensive response to the issue from public or commercial interests.
http://www.h2onetworksdarkfibre.com/index.php

probe

Jumpy wrote: »

What incentive do they have to do so? Re-read the part I stated in my earlier post that says "Companies exist to make profit".
It would require a goverment scheme. Which in theory could be run via ESB Supply, however, if it wasnt thought of during the boom, you are certainly not going to see it right now.

They have no incentive. There is no vision or plan. If most of the posters are representative of the country at large - (vested interest or fat and happy with their existing service and the future for themselves and their children...) I wasted my time posting the link to the NY Times article here.

Jumpy

probe wrote: »

They have no incentive. There is no vision or plan. If most of the posters are representative of the country at large - (vested interest or fat and happy with their existing service and the future for themselves and their children...) I wasted my time posting the link to the NY Times article here.

They are not charities. If it could increase their profits in the long run then sure they would plan it. What you want is a utopia though. Sure it would be brilliant, and there are lots of things that would improve if companies did things for people as opposed to financial growth, but thats capitalism for you.
Push the government, they are the ones that are supposed to improve the country, pushing corporations will get you nowhere.

IrishTonyO

probe wrote: »

They have no incentive. There is no vision or plan. If most of the posters are representative of the country at large - (vested interest or fat and happy with their existing service and the future for themselves and their children...) I wasted my time posting the link to the NY Times article here.

I am not a vested interest.
I am not fat
I am not completely happy with my service
I am currently unemployed so not secure for my future

Sorry to not fit your stereotypes, and I still disagree with you!

jor el

Ranicand, keep the conspiracy stuff off this forum please.

jor el

Ranicand's nonsense removed. So back to the topic at hand.

Sponge Bob

Eamon Ryan, our minister for communications only announced 1 fibre project in all of 2009 and that was to Fibre the Fish out in Galway Bay.



Here is Ryans announcement in July , action 6 of 6 involves the installation of fibre while all the other ones use existing fibre.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2009/Making+the+smart+economy+real.htm



And you expect a muppet like Eamon Ryan to come up with an FTT(not fish) plan ???? Get real

bricks

probe wrote: »

How long does it take you to download an HD movie (BluRay standard) at 50 Mbits/sec? 5 to 10 hours..... And that is just 1080p stuff.

3D TV is a lot more bandwidth hungry - 3D TVs are on the market already.

After that gets boring along will come holographic imagery which will fill your living room with a 3D experience.

Do they dig up the road and install new kit every time we move to another generation of video technology?

Or install an infrastructure that can handle the future?

50Mbits /sec = 6.25Mbytes/sec = 375Mbytes/min = 22500 Mbytes/hour.

Seems to me like an hour or posibly 2 if it was a really high quality HD movie.
So 5 - 10hrs is way off, or is my maths wrong?

mehmeh12

This thread makes for depressing reading...so when can dublin consumers avail of of 1 GB speeds-sometime in the next 100 years? So much for the 'smart economy'.

Jumpy

mehmeh12 wrote: »

This thread makes for depressing reading...so when can dublin consumers avail of of 1 GB speeds-sometime in the next 100 years? So much for the 'smart economy'.

It was never a smart economy, it was a low tax economy. Smart economy was the bs that FF kept on about. Ireland has always been a good bit behind most of Mainland EU in the tech stakes.