Pitching a tv series to RTÉ

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Anyone know what the correct protocol would be for pitching a tv series to RTÉ?
Do you write a pilot and send it on directly to RTÉ? Or would you need to get a production company involved first and have them pitch the show? Or is it something else completely?

jimogr

Have you checked out this site?

http://www.rte.ie/commissioning/index.html

goose2005

1. Marry the Director-General's niece
2. ... that's about it, you'll be part of the clan

Meeja Ireland

goose2005 wrote: »

1. Marry the Director-General's niece
2. ... that's about it, you'll be part of the clan

I'd find that kind of knee-jerk accusation so much easier to believe if there were lots of good unproduced scripts, or unused good ideas, rattling around. There aren't.

RTE is a very flawed organisation, but they are not turning good work away. They are trying to squeeze half-decent work out of a very limited talent pool. They're doing it badly, by and large. But it's not a conspiracy, and it's not nepotism.

WrongedWriter

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

I'd find that kind of knee-jerk accusation so much easier to believe if there were lots of good unproduced scripts, or unused good ideas, rattling around. There aren't.

RTE is a very flawed organisation, but they are not turning good work away..

I find this hand-washing embrace of mediocrity typical of the Irish media as a whole - your user name is very apt.

While I don't know much about the lifestyle/reality show/ talent show trash that RTE spend most of their time churning out, I have read a good few excellent scripts (I read for production companies) for comedies and dramas that have been buried by RTE.

The trick is they will enter it into "development" where either it will be corrupted into a sad rip off of a uk format, starring one of their staffers, or they will sit on it for years and years, eventually telling the writer they're no longer interested.

Or, and this happens a LOT, they'll reject it and in a few months time an in-house (or in a production company who are in bed with RTE) version of your idea will appear, and be so horribly bad that it will poison any hope your idea has of getting made.

Nepotism is endemic in RTE. Anyone who denies this has either never had any involvement with RTE or inherited their job for life. <snip by DeV>

No one in RTE has any experience in working for a real broadcaster.

As for how the charmless, entitled Tubridy has failed his way sideways towards hosting the country's flagship programme...

The good news is the UK is far more a meritocracy and if you are talented and willing to work hard, you will be nurtured.

However if you want to write about Ireland (as opposed to Paddywackery, BBC have commissioned a six-parter of The Mammy) there's no where to go.

RTE hate writing, writers and most of all they are threatened by any gleam of creativity.

WrongedWriter

While I don't like Liam Fay, he trashes all comedy while holding up David McSavage as some kind of competent, this is a good insight into how RTE see the world.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7026114.ece

We pay for this; it's the new FAS, if only there was someone in Irish journalism who wasn't afraid to get themselves blacklisted from the prospect of a cusy job in the RTE holiday camp.

As for the Ryan's Daughter thread... If only Rupert Murdoch would leave the BBC alone and turn his attention towards dismantling RTE.

Elmo

WrongedWriter wrote: »

As for the Ryan's Daughter thread... If only Rupert Murdoch would leave the BBC alone and turn his attention towards dismantling RTE.

No offence WrongedWriter but what great Dramas/Comedies has Rupert Murdocks service in the UK produced? He is only interested in Money and Sport and Pay TV suits him. Rupert Murdock is just another form of Canwest.

The good news is the UK is far more a meritocracy and if you are talented and willing to work hard, you will be nurtured.

But it is much more difficult to break.

WrongedWriter

Sorry Elmo, I phrased the Murdock bit wrong. I am very enamored of the BBC (to the point of pollyanna; I know that all big organisations are flawed yet I firmly believe BBC believe in quality) and I think it's horrible that Murdock and the Conservatives he'll help get elected are getting closer and closer to crippling it.

RTE are far more deserving a target.

Elmo

WrongedWriter wrote: »

RTE are far more deserving a target.

They might be, but we should perhaps look for a better person to dismantle it, private corporations aren't going to do this. I would rather see a competitor compete to bring RTÉ's game up than down and Murdock wants to bring BBC's quality down.

Also it is down to the amount of programming produced by the BBC and Channel 4. In the last 10 years they have produced a phenomenal amount of Feature/Reality TV programming. And while RTÉ might produce 2 to 3 dramas (outside of soap) C4 and the BBC produce far more and the bad ones get hidden.

WrongedWriter

Elmo wrote: »

They might be, but we should perhaps look for a better person to dismantle it, private corporations aren't going to do this. I would rather see a competitor compete to bring RTÉ's game up than down and Murdock wants to bring BBC's quality down.

Wholly agreed. I was getting lost in rhetoric. And BBC3's output makes me sad.

A true competitor would be great (divert a third of the license fee away from RTE into a rival broadcaster - we could all do without RTE2) but I doubt the government / broadcasting-authority-boards-comprised-of-government-and-RTE pension-recievers will ever grant a license to a credible treat to RTE.

Elmo

WrongedWriter wrote: »

Wholly agreed. I was getting lost in rhetoric. And BBC3's output makes me sad.

A true competitor would be great (divert a third of the license fee away from RTE into a rival broadcaster - we could all do without RTE2) but I doubt the government / broadcasting-authority-boards-comprised-of-government-and-RTE pension-recievers will ever grant a license to a credible treat to RTE.

I think handing part of the licence fee over to TV3 would be disastrous some of the shows that they have produced with the BAI Sound and Vision fund could have been produced by themselves AKA Living with Children, Irish TV Comedy etc etc. They have money to produce quality programming its not like they are a poor company.

Again we have to remember that RTÉ 2 also provides Children's programming for 12hours of the day not just their prime time service - which is pretty much controlled by the Head of Entertainment :rolleyes:.

Split RTÉ Two from RTÉ and give the resulting company responsibility for RTÉ's independent productions and children's television. With both RTÉ One and Network 2 competing for International and Sporting Rights. Basically Network 2 would only show independent productions and would be control by a separate company to RTÉ One. A Channel 4 type service.

BBC 3's Avoid, Snog or Marry or BBC 3's 2 packets... brilliant.

WrongedWriter

I would be hoping for more an early Channel 4 alright - I always forget about TV3 in these discussions as I see it as a UTV repeat channel with the daytime given over to disturbing community access broadcasting.

As you say, TV3 have plenty of money; they spent it on trash you could find in any gutter. (though 3E show 30 Rock and the Office, making them the best Irish channel, even though I have those shows on my hard drive for years.)

Maybe put the childrens programming back on One - get Theresa Mansfield to introduce it; TV3 can do all those women on couches reading papers while someone prepares a dinner in the background shows.

DeVore

WW, I edited out two specific accusations in your post above. You are entitled to your opinion but not to libel. If you want to say such things, please start a blog where you can be held accountable for it, not us. Thanks.
If you want to leave feedback about this, there is a forum under Sys for that.

Other then that, this is an interesting topic, please dont let me interrupt.

DeV.

Meeja Ireland

WrongedWriter wrote: »

I find this hand-washing embrace of mediocrity typical of the Irish media as a whole - your user name is very apt.

In a battle of username pathologies, I think we're on an admirably level playing field here. So let's just leave the ad hominem alone, shall we?

There is a lot of truth in your description of the problems, but your analysis seems a little off-key. There are many systemic problems in RTE which are deserving of analysyis. I'll list a few that come to mind.

1. There is an insufficient buffer between the station and the state, which encourages or even enforces timidity. This makes it hard for original work to thrive.

2. There is a huge and more rewarding market immediately to our right which siphons off much of the native talent.

3. RTE is run as almost a branch of the Civil Service, which makes it impossible to get rid of people who are no good or who have outlived their promise. There are so many of these (as there are in any comfy semi-state) that every programme is bound to be hampered with a couple of them.

Stuff like this, however:

RTE hate writing, writers and most of all they are threatened by any gleam of creativity.

That just sounds paranoid. "RTE" doesn't hate anything. If you think that individual producers sit around shaking their fists at the whole concept of writing, then I'd need to see some footage.

You yourself display, incidentally, one of the terrible stultifying faults that has bedevilled RTE for years: the idea that an Irish talent can only be validated by foreign success.

No one in RTE has any experience in working for a real broadcaster.

Or can you possibly mean TV3?

Elmo

WrongedWriter wrote: »

Maybe put the childrens programming back on One - get Theresa Mansfield to introduce it; TV3 can do all those women on couches reading papers while someone prepares a dinner in the background shows.

No Ian Dempsey and Zig and Zag

Network 2 would then have to do all the Daytime TV.

I would be hoping for more an early Channel 4 alright

You mean before Ben Frow?

Elmo

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Or can you possibly mean TV3?

The head of Drama at RTÉ was the Head of Commissioning at TV3 for years, so WW is correct.

WrongedWriter

DeVore wrote: »

WW, I edited out two specific accusations in your post above. You are entitled to your opinion but not to libel. If you want to say such things, please start a blog where you can be held accountable for it, not us. Thanks.

DeV.

No bother, that's fair. My bitter libel is all true to the best of my knowledge but I shouldn't bring trouble down on others.


Meeja Ireland. You're right, I did support the fact that Irish talent must be validated elsewhere.

The problem is, as Elmo adds too, the head of RTE Drama believes that there is no writing talent in Ireland, so she won't develop it (and please don't say Storyland is a writing academy, it's You're a Star. A messy huge waste of money that could have gone into developing new writers)

Irish theater has the same attitude; they won't even look at your script unless you're proven yourself in England. For some reason RTE think that monologue based playwrights and Hollyoaks writers are the only people who can write irish television.

The reason I say "go to England" is that there is no one here who develops new writers.

(Oh and if you've ever seen a writer being cross-examined by a certain someone in RTE Drama on how dare they attempt to submit a script to the Great and Mighty RTE, then you'll see that if they don't hate writers, they at least show a lot of contempt for them.

There's also the fact that many of the shows that should have teams of writers, such as panel shows and the Republic of Tele, don't. Having the presenter and his mate throw something together on the afternoon is not a trained writing team.)

iMax

OP, you're better off going in with an established production company on an initial proposal as they will already have the contacts & "chops" to get it further. This will mean giving up half it's potential revenue (minimum), but could be the difference in something being made or not. In addition, the independents can sell the rights abroad.

If you want more info PM me

Meeja Ireland

WrongedWriter wrote: »

The problem is, as Elmo adds too, the head of RTE Drama believes that there is no writing talent in Ireland, so she won't develop it (and please don't say Storyland is a writing academy, it's You're a Star. A messy huge waste of money that could have gone into developing new writers)

You might not like it, and you might be right (I haven't seen most of it), but Storyland is a way in for new writers. Complaining that it doesn't work is perfectly valid, but you can't complain that nobody is trying.

As for the alleged bias against Irish writers, how do you explain Raw (written by Lisa McGee) Pure Mule (written by Eugene O'Brien), and Father and Son (written by Frank Deasy)? I'm not really up on the Clinic, but writers like Peter McKenna, Brian Lynch and Anne-Marie Casey don't exactly sound Hungarian.

Irish theater has the same attitude; they won't even look at your script unless you're proven yourself in England.

That is absolute nonsense. Fishamble and the Abbey have extremely active new writing programmes. Dozens of other companies regularly present scripts by new authors. Walk past the New Theatre, or the Project, next time you're in town.

Dozens of theatre companies are drunken illiterates too, but that's the nature of the business. Your idea that there is a monolithic entitly called "Irish Theatre", which has a unified policy on anything, is insane.

(Oh and if you've ever seen a writer being cross-examined by a certain someone in RTE Drama on how dare they attempt to submit a script to the Great and Mighty RTE, then you'll see that if they don't hate writers, they at least show a lot of contempt for them.

The jury's out on that one, I'm afraid. That's a conversation I would need to witness, or hear both sides of. Even one side of it would be a start: I am pretty certain that no Personage said any such thing, and you have not given anything like a clear hint of what lies behind your reading of the subtext.

This is not to deny that producers have their faults and their disastrous decisions. Of course they do, and you have mentioned some of them (Bittersweet, etc.) But writers have faults too. One of the most typical is elevating a personal rejection into a denunciation of the industry or the company or the producer concerned. Rejection isn't easy, and writers aren't always the most objective about their work.

I remain to be convinced that there is a pool of unproduced scripts out there which could give us the masterpieces we all want to see. You could prove me very wrong very easily by naming ten.

Elmo

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

You might not like it, and you might be right (I haven't seen most of it), but Storyland is a way in for new writers. Complaining that it doesn't work is perfectly valid, but you can't complain that nobody is trying.

As for the alleged bias against Irish writers, how do you explain Raw (written by Lisa McGee) Pure Mule (written by Eugene O'Brien), and Father and Son (written by Frank Deasy)? I'm not really up on the Clinic, but writers like Peter McKenna, Brian Lynch and Anne-Marie Casey don't exactly sound Hungarian.

Pure Mule was one of the last commissions from Mary Calley now with parallel Pictures (producers of The Clinic). Raw is based on a format while developed in Ireland initially seen on five in the UK. Father and Son was a co-production with ITV by the late Frank Deasy who is a major writer in the UK having writing several serials for ITV, BBC and Channel 4. Singlehanded was originally meant for Wales or the English countryside and was developed in the UK, its 4th series will be co-produced with ITV. Her commissions have aired on the side of " Irish talent must be validated elsewhere" before getting a chance on Irish TV by which time it is too late.

As for storyland it is allot of wasted time and money. The winners of the competition got nothing out of RTÉ and the projects were to hang around for 6months on the chance that they might be voted back, and were only give 8000 per six minute episode meaning that over the course of a month their continuity would be destroyed. While in theory it is a great start it doesn't lead anywhere.

Meeja Ireland

Elmo wrote: »

Pure Mule was one of the last commissions from Mary Calley now with parallel Pictures (producers of The Clinic). Raw is based on a format while developed in Ireland initially seen on five in the UK. Father and Son was a co-production with ITV by the late Frank Deasy who is a major writer in the UK having writing several serials for ITV, BBC and Channel 4. Singlehanded was originally meant for Wales or the English countryside and was developed in the UK, its 4th series will be co-produced with ITV. Her commissions have aired on the side of " Irish talent must be validated elsewhere" before getting a chance on Irish TV by which time it is too late.

I defer to your knowledge of this, Elmo, which vastly outstripts mine. A couple of points, however.

RAW: A format originating in England does not change the fact that it was entrusted to an Irish writer.

FATHER AND SON: Frank Deasy's success in England does not change the fact that he is an Irish writer, or negate the decision to commission him for RTE. Surely we would be all be outraged if UK success invoked an automatic boycott?

There is a difference between thinking that Irish talent needs foreign validation (WW's stated position) and finding Irish talent wherever it lurks.

As for storyland it is allot of wasted time and money. The winners of the competition got nothing out of RTÉ and the projects were to hang around for 6months on the chance that they might be voted back, and were only give 8000 per six minute episode meaning that over the course of a month their continuity would be destroyed. While in theory it is a great start it doesn't lead anywhere.

Fair enough.

DeVore

I've been involved with grass roots theatre for the past 18 months. The group formed on Boards and have staged two shows itself, both charged at the door and covered their costs easily.

If you are thinking "aw, cute, small group doing its own thing"... its now the biggest drama group in Ireland according the DLI.

You dont "need" the big boys, you need committment and hard work and a belief in yourself.

Recently I was involved with The Covies independent drama... written made and published independently online. It might not be big now but thats the way things are going, the blockages in the system will be bypassed...

DeV.

WrongedWriter

Meeja Ireland, I'm afraid I'm new to the game of arguing on the internet and you're right to catch me on wild rhetoric.

While I was wrong to say you can't put on a play (I've even managed a few ones) the only path to tv writing here is by being a Druid/Abbey playwright and the best way to get on one of their "new writing courses" is to have gotten on one in England or taken a play yourself to Edinburgh.

Again you have to be prove yourself abroad first. It's not right but it's the way it is. These companies are run on very tight margins; they won't take risks. Risks is how writers learn and this is why Irish writing is so bland lately.

And while I know this makes me sound like an idiot, I could and would like to name ten scripts by ten different writers that should be in development (and a great many more that shouldn't even by the same writers) but that would reveal my secret identity.

While I will never have anything to do with RTE again (my boards name goes a bit deeper than mere rejection I'm afraid, i'd have been better off if I was rejected day one,) people with whom I am associated have no choice (mortgages, families, ect.) and i'd rather not blacklist them. (of course a good idea would have been for me to go on boards.ie in the first place, but I'm a moron. I just wanted to warn CaptainNegative about RTE)

I'd love if there was a venue in Ireland for developing new scriptwriters (like BBC Radio 4) but there is not. I don't want to have to move to England and I want to write about Irish themes. The places which claim this (like Storyland) aren't any good and the proof of this is the terrible standard of drama and comedy on RTE.

Meeja Ireland

I'm enjoying your wild rhetoric, WW. You sound like you've been burned, to be fair, and that can't be fun.

Would you think of taking up DeVore's advice? Theatre in Dublin really is open to new stuff. Even if you can't find a company willing to put something on, it's not too hard to get a few mates together and rent out a space. There's also this thing, which I have no experience of but sounds like a good idea:

Theatre Upstairs @ the Plough is a non-funded, profit-share venue set up by Karl Shiels and Paul Walker with the co-operation of Lanigan's Plough Bar (opposite the Abbey Theatre, Middle Abbey Street, D1).

It launches its programme of events for Lunch Time and Tea Time theatre on January 18 2010.

The Lunch Time programme will features original works from new and established writers, offering a series of world premiere plays from writers such as Paul Walker (Stardust, Ladies & Gents), Eugene O'Brien (Eden, Pure Mule), Deirdre Kinahan (Hue & Cry), Bryan Delaney (The Cobbler) and Jimmy Murphy (Kings of The Kilburn Highroad).

The Tea Time slot presents a select series of revivals, including one from Mark O'Rowe (Howie The Rookie, Terminus, Intermission), along with play readings and works in progress.

The company is always on the look-out for submissions, so send them to:

Theatre Upstairs
Lanigans Plough Bar
Mid Abbey Street
Dublin 1.