Rent allowance/ supplement for separated person

johndaman66

Hi there all,

I have a number of questions regarding rent allowance/ supplement for a person who is separated (not divorced) which I am asking on behalf of my aunt. Presently she is living in her family home but has not being getting on well with her husband for some considerable time now. The main crux of the problem is that little is being done to the house in terms of repairs/ maintenance/ general upkeep. The house has become rather delapidated over the last ten to fifteen years. Her husband has considerably adequate savings but is doing little in terms of upkeep and maintenance of the house and rathers to stash his savings away. Aside from this he seems to be doing secondary relevant jobs and putting the immediately necessary jobs on the back burner. For example he is building a boundary wall around the house presently but there is no insulation in the walls of the house and the kitchen is small, very damp and pityful. He is a carer for her as she suffers a disability. Her complaint is unusual and although she is mobile she would go through periods of weakness where she would be confined to a bed for many days at a time. This coupled with serious stomach problems in the last number of years means that her health is not at all great.

Her husband is not very dependable in his carer duties. Many times she would have to make her dinner herself when she is able for example. It is an county house with an old style solid fuel stove. As afore mentioned there is no insulation in the walls of the house and this solid fuel stove is simply inadequate at powering the radiators around the house. As such certain rooms in the house can be very cold, particularly at the moment for example....hence the reason she is inclined to stay in bed also at times. I was in the house this evening talking to her and I almost felt as cold inside as outside. Apart from this the house is just run down, untidy and unclean. For example the two family pet dogs seem to be kept in the house all the time. Quite simply it does not appear to be a fantastic house to live in.

My question is what entitlements would be available to my aunt in terms of rent allowance/ supplement as a separated individual if she were to get rehoused and how could she get the ball rolling in this regard. She is in her late 60's and receives a state pension which amounts to circa 220 Euro per week. She also gets some annual fuel allowance. In account of her illness she receives TV license, electricity allowance and free telephone rental. She told me she enquired about getting rehoused before but the information she got was more for an emergency scenario where a spouse was being physically domestically abused and needed to be rehoused in an emergency situation...There is no physical domestic abuse in the current scenario. Just to mention also if its relevant there are three offspring, who are in their late 20's. They all are working and moved away from home but be back home from time to time, at weekends and the like.

Victor

johndaman66 wrote: »

She told me she enquired about getting rehoused before but the information she got was more for an emergency scenario where a spouse was being physically domestically abused and needed to be rehoused in an emergency situation...There is no physical domestic abuse in the current scenario.

To a point, I'm not certain that I would agree. Its not elder abuse, but it is elder neglect. Is the husband a paid carer?

The house in its current state would appear to be unsuitable. There are various options:
(a) have the separation agreement revisited, so that she is better provided for - this would probably need a solicitor.
(b) seek voluntary or council housing.
(c) seek rent allowance for privately rented accommodation. Depending on location and circumstances, she may be entitled to have the bulk of the rent paid, up to about €100 per week.

Talking to Age Action and the local citizens information office would be useful and then talk to the local community welfare officer and the housing department in the council.


http://www.ageaction.ie/
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

johndaman66

Victor wrote: »

To a point, I'm not certain that I would agree. Its not elder abuse, but it is elder neglect. Is the husband a paid carer?

The house in its current state would appear to be unsuitable. There are various options:
(a) have the separation agreement revisited, so that she is better provided for - this would probably need a solicitor.
(b) seek voluntary or council housing.
(c) seek rent allowance for privately rented accommodation. Depending on location and circumstances, she may be entitled to have the bulk of the rent paid, up to about €100 per week.

Talking to Age Action and the local citizens information office would be useful and then talk to the local community welfare officer and the housing department in the council.

Thanks for your most helpful response Victor. I would agree with you that it is perhaps neglect as opposed to physical abuse in the scenario. I just wanted to make that distinction clear as she said that any time she got in contact with citizens information centre's or womens support groups or the like it was almost automatically assumed she was being physically abused which has never being the case. The husband is a paid carer but as far as I'm aware this payment does not amount to a lot of money and he does some household work, albeit not as much as he should be doing perhaps.

I guess from reading the rules of rent supplement in the link you provided that she needs to firstly be assessed as being eligible for and in need of social housing by the housing department of Limerick city council (being her local authority)...seen as she is not presently in rented accommodation.

One other question somebody may be able to answer. Must she seek the accommodation herself or would the local authority or welfare officer have any input in this regard? She would like to move in towards the city to be nearer to services but not into an apartment in the immediate city centre having lived in a country house all her life. Having a brief look through daft listings many of what would appear to be the most suitable housing provides that rent allowance is not accepted. I understand that in her situation she cannot afford to be overly choosy and picky but would like to see her in at least half suitable accommodation in a safe location where she can comfortably afford the balance.

Victor

The husband is a paid carer but as far as I'm aware this payment does not amount to a lot of money and he does some household work, albeit not as much as he should be doing perhaps.

Question: Do they still live together? Or who else lives with the aunt? Who owns the property?

While carer's allowance isn't great, I imagien there are rules about what he should be doing.

If its council / voluntary housing, it would be whatever becomes available within a certain range. The council or voluntary organisation will allocate according to need, so single people would usually get one-bed flats, established families would get properties proportionate to the family size and young couples starting families might be provided with some growing space.

I don't know about Limerick, but Dublin City Council has a strong network of accommodation that is predominantly / only used for older people, typically in groups of 20-30 own-door flats in 2-storey blocks, some of which have a resident warden. So, not so many wild parties or screaming children. Other times, there will be flats or smaller houses available within other developments.

If its private rented accommodation, then it is normally for the prospective tenant to find somewhere.

rent allowance is not accepted

Is code for two things (a) landlord not paying tax (b) landlord doesn't want junkies, layabouts, etc.

Explaining its your elderly housebound aunt maybe change opinions.

unJustMary

A few thoughts from me: a bit disjointed, but they might give you a few things to think about:

Who owns the family home? Is it him? Her? Joint? (I think that if you own, or have owned or part owned, a house, then you're not elibigle for council housing unless a bank has repossessed. And that means you're not eligible for rent-allowance. There could be exceptions to this, but do check it carefully.)

If your aunt was to separate from her husband, inadequate thought he is, who would care for her at the times when she's unable to care for herself?

Does she actually want to separate from him? Or for him to change his thinking about how the house is run? I'm guessing that she ran the house while she was able, but he's had to take over as she became disabled. This can be hard if they have different standards - one person's "unsuitable" can be another persons "ahh, sure'n it's grand".

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but a good carer would make sure that they were only assisting at times when your aunt is not able to care for herself, and that at times when she is able to care for herself she does so. From what you've described it sounds like this is happening. Or are there times when she's not able to care for herself, and he refuses to help - that is more of a neglect scenario.

What support is he receiving as a caregiver? Is she getting respite care from time to time? What's his health like?

Is there any option to have pressure brought to bear by other family members to upgrade the existing house? He may be thinking that if it's been good enough for however long they've been there, it's still good enough now. (It's not: as she becomes more immobile, she's less able to stay warm herself, so needs more assistance from the house. But he may not understand this.)

Are there any disability support organisations around for her disorder? Any of them who have field-workers who may be able to assist?

Does she have power-of-attorney in place - is it him, or one of the children? Has she taken any independent legal advice about the effect of separation, eg if it's a joint house and has to be sold, she'll get a lump of cash, which may disqualify her from receiving any means-tested benefit.

What do the adult children think about the situation? I guess I'm thinking that this is firstly the children's problem rather than yours.

Good luck - hope she can work something out.

johndaman66

Victor wrote: »

Question: Do they still live together? Or who else lives with the aunt? Who owns the property?

While carer's allowance isn't great, I imagien there are rules about what he should be doing.

If its council / voluntary housing, it would be whatever becomes available within a certain range. The council or voluntary organisation will allocate according to need, so single people would usually get one-bed flats, established families would get properties proportionate to the family size and young couples starting families might be provided with some growing space.

I don't know about Limerick, but Dublin City Council has a strong network of accommodation that is predominantly / only used for older people, typically in groups of 20-30 own-door flats in 2-storey blocks, some of which have a resident warden. So, not so many wild parties or screaming children. Other times, there will be flats or smaller houses available within other developments.

To answer your first question Victor they still live together but have not being getting on with some considerable time.The house would have originally being built by my aunts husband back in the early 70's. The site was gifted to him by a brother of his at the time. As far as I'm aware he would have input much if not the total cost of building the house at the time but my aunt would have input money into decorating and finishing the house at the time and would have contributed towards the maintenance and upkeep of it since insofar as she could have...She worked for some years after marrying but when she lost her job she became a housewife, and raised the children. I'm sure the house would now be considered as much hers as it is his and would be seen as such in the eyes of the law.

I do suppose there are certain governing what a carer should b doing for the person they are assisting but they unrestful situation is bound to cause problems in this regard.

I guess her needs will have to be looked at by the council/ welfare officer if she is indeed eligible for re-housing. As I say I wouldn't like to see her moved into a rough area and wild late night parties in houses or flats nearby would be a no no as she would need her sleep.

Victor

There some schemes run by councils and the Department of the Environment to assist older people in improving there homes (a) for the provision of things like suitable bathroom accommodation and (b) insulate properties. You might look into these.

johndaman66

unJustMary wrote: »

A few thoughts from me: a bit disjointed, but they might give you a few things to think about

Hi unJustMary, Apologies I am just responding to you now. Was part way through my response last night when my laptop decided to crash on me. It was well late but managed to get it going since!

unJustMary wrote: »

Who owns the family home? Is it him? Her? Joint? (I think that if you own, or have owned or part owned, a house, then you're not elibigle for council housing unless a bank has repossessed. And that means you're not eligible for rent-allowance. There could be exceptions to this, but do check it carefully.)

As far as I'm aware and am pretty sure and certain that the house was built by my aunts husband in the early 70's on a site gifted to him by his brother. She may have put forward some money towards the building of the house but don't think that would have being a lot. She would have more so contributed to the furnishing and finishing of the house at the time as such. She would have provided what finance as best she could since towards the maintenance, upkeep and running of the house and raised the offspring. I cannot say who's name is on the deeds as I am unaware of this but am sure that she would be considered half owner of the house in the eyes of the law. Guess I may need to look into the cases where there are exceptions made.

unJustMary wrote: »

If your aunt was to separate from her husband, inadequate thought he is, who would care for her at the times when she's unable to care for herself?

Good question and again cannot provide a definate answer. As far as I'm aware though the HSE would otherwise provide a care assistant to help with the tasks in the house on a part-time basis. Its just that it was decided that her husband would take up this responsibility when the need first arose some years back. As previously mentioned she is mobile most of the time and would be able to carry out the day to day household tasks for spells but she would certainly require additional assistance from time to time.

unJustMary wrote: »

Does she actually want to separate from him? Or for him to change his thinking about how the house is run? I'm guessing that she ran the house while she was able, but he's had to take over as she became disabled. This can be hard if they have different standards - one person's "unsuitable" can be another persons "ahh, sure'n it's grand".

Ideally she does not want to separate but shes sees it as her last resort. She said he is a tough man to reason with and has his own ideas about things and how they should be done. From her point of view if he met or even began to meet her half way it would mean an awful lot. You would be correct in guessing that she ran the house years back when she had her full health and even did so after being diagnosed insofar as she could. She will still do a certain amount of jobs around the house when she has her good spells. As afore mentioned his logic and methods in doing things is a lot of the problem. For example there is a solid fuel stove in the house. I was in the house a few mornings in a row over Christmas and it seemed to take all morning for him to get the fire started. He would start taking parts of the stove outside and clean them of soot, stop for a bit, do a bit more, get the fuel and between one thing and another it would be forever and a day before the fire was lit. I could not understand the logic of having to clean parts of the stove to that extent every day but perhaps I'm missing something here. When going in and out to clean the parts he would leave the door wide open and that was during the cold snap and furthermore cats and dogs would then make their way in and be flying around the house. To give another example he seems to fire pots and pans out around the back garden in the hope the rain will clean them as opposed to washing them in the kitchen sink:eek:. Then he often seems to go to town on a daily basis to pick up the shopping as opposed to buying in enough groceries to last a few days at once, which does not seem to make too much sense either. His tightness does not help the situation at all either given that he pretty much holds the purse strings. I don't want to knock him too much because apart from the faults I've mentioned I cannot say much against him. Hes not a drinker or gambler or anything like that and never physically abused my aunt. Granted everybody's perception of what is acceptable and isin't will vary somewhat but I cannot see how an old person could live half comfortably in the house the way it bes.

unJustMary wrote: »

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but a good carer would make sure that they were only assisting at times when your aunt is not able to care for herself, and that at times when she is able to care for herself she does so. From what you've described it sounds like this is happening. Or are there times when she's not able to care for herself, and he refuses to help - that is more of a neglect scenario.

I would agree with you there unJustMary but having said that there does seem to be little co-operation there. For example if he cracked on in lighting the fire at a reasonable hour in the morning she would be better able to get up and make some lunch but the fact that the house is so cold means shes more inclined to stay in bed and I couldn't really blame her. I'm a lot younger and in good health and found it pretty cold the few mornings I was in there over Christmas.

unJustMary wrote: »

What support is he receiving as a caregiver? Is she getting respite care from time to time? What's his health like?

As far as I know he is receiving no support as a caregiver but I stand to be corrected on that one. Pretty certain she does not receive respite at any times. In general his health seems pretty good for a man of his age. He did suffer a very mild stroke some time back but is since on medication to control his blood pressure and seems to be in good general shape since. He is building a boundary wall around the house himself so I guess you could conclude from that, that his health cannot be too bad.

unJustMary wrote: »

Is there any option to have pressure brought to bear by other family members to upgrade the existing house? He may be thinking that if it's been good enough for however long they've been there, it's still good enough now. (It's not: as she becomes more immobile, she's less able to stay warm herself, so needs more assistance from the house. But he may not understand this.)

I cannot say whether or not that option exists. As previously mentioned the man is a bit headstrong , has his own ideas about thing and is set in his ways. I would be close enough to one of the cousins and he has somewhat resigned himself to trying to get the man to upgrade, carry out repairs and generally upgrade the house. I would never have discussed the situation to any considerable extent with the other two offspring. They would be at the house from time to time and as far as I can make out would do some work when they do visit but they are all practically moved out and doing their on thing and paying mortgages and the like. Would think that what input they can provide either financially or otherwise is limited due to their work, relationships, mortgages etc.

unJustMary wrote: »

Are there any disability support organisations around for her disorder? Any of them who have field-workers who may be able to assist?

Even though her ailment is quite rare I'm sure there are support groups of some kind available. She seems to manage her illness as best she can but does go through bouts of depression which I'm sure are related. Not trying to be smart but don't think a field worker specialising in her illness would be able to do a whole lot about the situation regarding her living conditions in the house which appear to be the major crux of the problem.

unJustMary wrote: »

Does she have power-of-attorney in place - is it him, or one of the children? Has she taken any independent legal advice about the effect of separation, eg if it's a joint house and has to be sold, she'll get a lump of cash, which may disqualify her from receiving any means-tested benefit.

What do the adult children think about the situation? I guess I'm thinking that this is firstly the children's problem rather than yours.

She does not have power of attorney in place. The ailment is completely of a physical nature and she is mentally of sound mind. As far as I'm aware ahe has not taken independent legal advice on the situation. Probably would be no harm as a separation is a thought going through her mind. I will mention it to her. I acknowledge and appreciate that its not my problem. We have in the past being pretty close and I would sort of in affect see her as a second mother to me. She confided in me and explained the situation to me when I was around the other evening so I did say I would follow up on it and make some enquiries for her. Perhaps she would have confided in one of her own sons or daughters if they were around at the time but I am thinking that by virtue of the fact that she had an argument with her husband earlier and I was there that she choose to confide in me.

unJustMary wrote: »

Good luck - hope she can work something out.

Many thanks unJustMary and for your input. It is much appreciated.

johndaman66

Victor wrote: »

There some schemes run by councils and the Department of the Environment to assist older people in improving there homes (a) for the provision of things like suitable bathroom accommodation and (b) insulate properties. You might look into these.

Thanks Victor. Per chance I have a few days off next week so visiting the citizens information centre and the housing department at city council buildings are top of my priorities... You would probably need a few days of to attack such tasks:rolleyes: