Stigma of the Dole

LisaMe

Hi there,

Thought I'd post this in PI instead of the Dole forum since I got nasty replies to a post I wrote asking a question about the Dole (and the responses were nothing to do with my question).

Just wondering how do you guys cope with the stigma of being on the Dole? I've been unemployed since I finished college in 2008. I've done unpaid and low paid internships but not working at the moment and am trying very very hard to find a job!!

I did really well in the Leaving Cert, got a 1.1 degree and worked my way through college and worked abroad as well so I'm finding it weird to be judged as a waster and scrounger now....

Would love to hear your thoughts please... or just a nice bit of encouragement from people on the same boat. I'm making the most of my free time with hobbies etc, but the whole not having a job thing can get me down.

punchdrunk

just lost my job this past month,company folded
I'd worked there 4 years and unfortunately my college qualifications in the real world are now ten years out of date

so I'll have to start thinking about retraining now
maybe in something totally different? at a bit of a loss on that front!

I've no real stigma about claiming the dole per se,
I feel entitled to it as I paid my taxes for at least 10 years working so why not?

but where I do feel embarrassment I guess of sorts,is that time is ticking away
I'm 28 and alot of mates are getting married,settling down careers are cruising along nicely
and I'm the guy who may have to go from management to the bottom rung
that's alot of pressure right there and of course my family & friends are kinda right when they say
"it's only yourself applying that pressure"

but I don't think it's totally imagined there's definitely a social pressure there
I really hate that "poor you" thing that people naturally do,well meaning or not!
and even worse a few people have been visibly detested when I've told them...like it's my fault!
which isn't doing the ego any favours...

So yeah I think it's opened my eyes a bit
naively in the past I was sold on the
"bunch of lazy spongers" labeling of everyone on the dole
from the two times Ive been down to the welfare office these people for the most part look just like me

Genghiz Cohen

I'm trying to start a business but as of yet it is less than profitable, my only choice is the Dole. At first I was hesitant because of the stigma attached, but now it is simply nesessary.

Alessandra

The only "stigma" attached to being in receipt of the dole is if you are a layabout who has never any intention of working for a living and just expects the state to pay for you. People who have never worked for 1 day of their lives and claim every benefit going are the definition of "dole scroungers". People who have worked and paid taxes have done so for a reason and are more than entitled to claim.
Anybody can fall on hardtimes and that's why the dole is there for those who genuinely need it. If you really are hardup for cash you wouldn't be worried about "stigma". Hopefully you will find work soon.

krudler

What stigma? half the country is out of work at the moment, I know 2 people with doctorates that are on the dole, its not for the lack of trying to find a job either, never mind what other people think and concentrate on filling your time with worthwhile stuff instead of sitting around doing nothing like the actual scroungers do

cafecolour

As above, overall I can't imagine there's a better time than now to be on the dole in regards to stigma. Now if you were on the dole like 5 years ago at the peak of the celtic tiger...

If you've just been applying for jobs and getting turned down, that can get demoralizing. Add in some self-improvement etc. to make yourself more marketable (learn new skills, a new language, etc.)

cee_jay

I don't think there is a stigma of being on the dole - everybody knows someone or is related to someone who is out of work due to this recession.
What people don't like are people who pull the piss when claiming - ie those who have no intention of ever working, and those committing social welfare fraud.

The_Conductor

Hi Lisa,

When I first graduated in 1997 (that shows you how old I am!!!) it was well before the Irish economy got really going- and I found it tough as hell.

I went into Fas and registered for all manner of different courses they had (one in particular on webdesign was brilliant) and I went to every temp agency I could find and put myself on their books. Eventually I got a call from Grafton Recruitment to go out to UCD for a language assessment- they might have a few call centre jobs going (I was half furious- but half intrigued- what had a call centre job to do with my honours degree in forestry?)

I ended up in a tiny call centre in the middle of nowhere (Sandyford was still very much a backwater) registering software and doing odds and ends- occasoinally being lent by Grafton to other companies for short term marketting campaigns etc......

The original company they put me in showed interest in keeping me- and decided to take me on a short 6 month contract- this was renewed three times- and before long (ok, 2 and a half years later) I was a fulltime employee. Once I was there fulltime- I availed of a staff scheme to pay for educational courses, and did a grad dip in IT in the evenings- and eventually used this to open other doors........

You really need to grasp every and any opportunities that are shown to you- and even if they are not in an area related to your chosen profession- view them as stepping stones towards getting where you want to go- but accept that it may be a long and winding road- and that you discover there are other areas you'd like to explore as you go along.

It is tough at the moment- incredibly tough for most folk- you need to make the most of any opportunities that come your way- without getting hungup on your chosen profession etc.

LisaMe

Thanks for the replies! Ah I'm grand, I was just feeling a bit crappy when I wrote that post. The majority of people are grand cos they know what the job situation is like, but I was just focusing too much on the odd person who sniggered at me when I was doing unpaid work experience. But if someone comes from a wealthy family or has not been looking for a job since the recession, they don't understand what it's like right now so I shouldn't be upset at them either

LegacyUser

I understand what you are saying. Some people like to take the chance to kick people when they are down though. Some people are just d**kheads.

As things stand a lot of highly qualified, educated and motivated people who are desperate to work cannot land any kind of job. I think 90% of people do genuinely want to work. Living on €200 (or whatever the dole is) just isn't any fun. And most people have financial commitments as adults that need to be met.

The problem is there really is little or no work out there for anyone. And the problem is that what few jobs there are knocking about have an absolute ferocious amount of competition for them.

Quick example, a girl I know works in a office. They were hiring a new secretary. The girl who eventually got the job has degrees in Marketing and Business. She obviously worked incredibly hard to get them and make herself a success. And in this climate she barely scraped a job as a secretary where her take home pay at the end of each week is €310.

I worked as a freelance journalist for the last 5 years and its all dried up now. All the jobs are handed out to people related to editors or someone similarly connected regardless of if the people in question are even qualified for said position.

I haven't signed on yet but I think I may well have to. I don't like signing on because of the amount of hassle you get. I had to do it once before and I have to say every person I had to deal with (with the exception of 1) was a complete a**ehole regarldess of how polite or compliant I was to all the various requests.

Anyway, what worries me is that the only skill I have is very subjective. Whether or not someone is a good writer is open to interpretation. It may vary wildy from one person to the next.

I know I will have to retrain and am trying to decide the best course of action. I don't particularly want to spend the time and money retraining learning something that leads me up a blind alley. I really don't know what the best course of action is because in every sector and profession there are litreally hundreds and thousands of people who already have varying degrees of qualification without jobs.

Sure I could get some base level degree in a certain area to start off my retraining but there are going to be so many other people with those same qualifications and better ones (as well as previous experience) hunting for jobs.

It really is a demorlaising and potentially scary situation

LisaMe

LisaMe wrote: »

Hi there,

Thought I'd post this in PI instead of the Dole forum since I got nasty replies to a post I wrote asking a question about the Dole (and the responses were nothing to do with my question).

Just wondering how do you guys cope with the stigma of being on the Dole? I've been unemployed since I finished college in 2008. I've done unpaid and low paid internships but not working at the moment and am trying very very hard to find a job!!

I did really well in the Leaving Cert, got a 1.1 degree and worked my way through college and worked abroad as well so I'm finding it weird to be judged as a waster and scrounger now....

Would love to hear your thoughts please... or just a nice bit of encouragement from people on the same boat. I'm making the most of my free time with hobbies etc, but the whole not having a job thing can get me down.

Lisa, its harder to find someone in a job these times. If the dole wasn't here we'd be a 3rd world country. Everyone would be chasing the bread van (I'm not overrating the amount one gets on the dole either).
Having experienced the boredom and lack of self esteem you have from unemployment i understand what your feeling, but there is no shame in being unemployed. its not your fault Ireland is in recession. if your actively looking for work then i would not call you a scrounger. Far far from it. Scroungers are people who, as an above poster said, don't even try to look for work and are happy to claim state benefits.

Quant

LisaMe wrote: »

Thanks for the replies! Ah I'm grand, I was just feeling a bit crappy when I wrote that post. The majority of people are grand cos they know what the job situation is like, but I was just focusing too much on the odd person who sniggered at me when I was doing unpaid work experience. But if someone comes from a wealthy family or has not been looking for a job since the recession, they don't understand what it's like right now so I shouldn't be upset at them either

You're entitled to this benefit. Take it and don't feel like a scrounger. It's your money. The people who snigger have no knowledge of the real world and the work situation at the moment - ignore them.

This is your entitlement. You, hopefully, won't need it for long. Keep positive. Keep applying for anything that you think you're suitable for. Your efforts will pay off. In the meantime, if you need your benefits, take them. You'll be paying tax long enough in the future!!

LegacyUser

I was unemployed for nearly 15 months after where I worked folded and I couldn't get a job anywhere despite having loads of relevant experience, a degree and a masters. I know how you feel, I used to hate Wednesdays having to go down to the post office and queue for benefit, it was even worse when I had to go up to Finglas to sign on once a month.

It was very hard not to get frustrated/angry and generally depressed. I know it may come across as cliched but you just cant give up, as bad as things are if you stop believing in yourself and just stop looking thats a much worse road to go down and have to drag yourself out of. Things will pick up again, when well thats the question, but you will find a job.

deisemum

If you're willing to work then don't feel like a scrounger, there are some scroungers on benefits who don't want to work but these days there are so many who want to work but cannot get a job.

At least you can get some money. My husband and I are both self-employed and my husband has only had 3 days work since before christmas and it's getting him down. My income varies but it's low paid as that's the nature of the job.

We're both in our mid 40's with teenagers and as we're self-employed we don't count on any register. Social welfare didn't want to know when my husband went in to see if he could get some sort of help and just sent him to see our local CWO. Both of us came away after being made feel like parasites after the snotty CWO told us we should have planned for the recession. We've always been careful with money and fortunately paid off our mortgage last September in just 12 years.

My husband has never claimed for anything in his life, has employed people over the years, paid his taxes etc and found it hard enough to go in looking for help and was shocked that someone who's job is to help people could be so insulting so stigma in looking for help still exists.

LegacyUser

There is some stigma attached to being a lifelong pajama wearer, but as far as I can see there is no stigma for people like you (and me) being on the dole. I had a fantastic job and paid more tax than a lot of people will ever pay, but I'm unemployed almost six months now. I only got negativity about being on the dole from one woman, out of my entire circle, and TBH there are just some people who love to shoot you down no matter what - its more about them than about the economy. She'd be twice as snippy if I got a good job!