Swimming - Kicking Drills are torture!*

Iron Enthusiast

I’ve been doing my usual session with my masters class during the week when I heard the coach say the words I dread “Ok lets start for 4 x 100’s kicking”

I’m a middle of the road swimmer who’s training for IM and has been working hard to improve and currently I swim my 50s in about 1:05 (when doing a long set). But, even the people who I always swim faster than are easily able to overtake me when we do drills with the kick-board!

When kicking: I keep my body position as flat as I can and my kick is just breaking the waters surface a little bit, so I’m guessing my body position can’t be that terrible.
(I kick from my hips)

I don’t carry much body fat but am definitely a bit stockier in the upper body from doing weights before I got into Tri then most other triathletes (but I’m not a beast or huge ).

I asked the coach about the kicking and she said that some guys just tend to be bad at kicking no matter what they do. i.e they just sink more easily – and as I seem to be one of them I’ll probably never get much better at it.

My question:

Is this the case?

I would have assumed that anyone can master kicking with the right amount of work and technique.

This is a very frustrating situation as I kill myself making sure I have the right body position etc in the kick drills – and having heard the above comment I’m now feeling a bit ticked off

Any advice from the swimmers here would be very much appreciated?:)

interested

Iron Enthusiast wrote: »

I’ve been doing my usual session with my masters class during the week when I heard the coach say the words I dread “Ok lets start for 4 x 100’s kicking”

bet that was a bit of a shock to a few people

I’m a middle of the road swimmer who’s training for IM and has been working hard to improve and currently I swim my 50s in about 1:05 (when doing a long set). But, even the people who I always swim faster than are easily able to overtake me when we do drills with the kick-board!

At a guess Id imagine you drag your feet normally - and probably are shoulder strong ... you probably have a reasonable arm pull (or more efficient that others who are now passing you kicking) - maybe the others arent kicking as deep as you and/or are kicking faster

When kicking: I keep my body position as flat as I can and my kick is just breaking the waters surface a little bit, so I’m guessing my body position can’t be that terrible.

All sounds about right - the idea is keep the legs long, only a slight knee bend and no deep kicking

(I kick from my hips)I don’t carry much body fat but am definitely a bit stockier in the upper body from doing weights before I got into Tri then most other triathletes (but I’m not a beast or huge ).

You answered by earlier question with that ...

I asked the coach about the kicking and she said that some guys just tend to be bad at kicking no matter what they do. i.e they just sink more easily – and as I seem to be one of them I’ll probably never get much better at it.

My question:Is this the case?

Women tend to float better than men based on their natural body composition ... and yeah, some people put more effort into kick sets than others ... everyone is gonna manage a 4*100 kick set in the middle of a session differently - maybe the other swimmers were goofing off prior to the kick set ... who knows - but I wouldnt give up trying to work through your kick sets ... things will improve ... what you consider a good high body position may not be quite who it all is when you're in the water ... fast, shallow kick, from the hip, little knee bend ... maybe concentrate on the frequency ... and keep the splash to a minimum

I would have assumed that anyone can master kicking with the right amount of work and technique. This is a very frustrating situation as I kill myself making sure I have the right body position etc in the kick drills – and having heard the above comment I’m now feeling a bit ticked offAny advice from the swimmers here would be very much appreciated?:)

Is everyone using the same size kick board ? bigger ones make things easier when kicking since they can provide more floatation ...

Dont get too stressed but I think your coach / person taking the session might have been just waiving you away a little. Fair play to you though for asking ... or even doing the set ... alot of triathletes when swimming would be throwing their fins at the coach or spilling the gatorade all over the place in angst

All of us can improve on something we do each time we swim. Focus on one thing at a time. If its your kick you want to improve on (or just to keep up with the others who by your account you'd normally be swimming faster than) the do just that - work on 50's kick - with a high frequency ... then move up to the 100's ... as you probably know already - its gonna hurt - but there ya go ... get your head around it and get on with it.


theres a particular evil drill with a kick board you should try sometime ... instead of holding the board horizontal on the water ... hold it perpendicular (maximising frontal resistence) and try doing 25m kick .... a life time ago I got kicked out of a session for doing about 10 metres like this and then trying to take the coaches head off with the board unfortunately I missed

Good luck with the training

shotgunmcos

I'm the same. [EMAIL="Cr@p"]Cr@p[/EMAIL] kicker in the pool but maybe improving slightly. In perspective, in my thursday night swim group I've been up at the sharper end in terms of TT swims recently but in a 5min timed kick last night a girl who was nearly 2 mins slower than me over 750m was with me all the way on the kicking test and I probably held her up!

I'm clearly getting the better swim times from a stronger pull then, background in rowing so it makes sense. I used to pull too hard (still do..working on it :cool:) at the start of the stroke and just washed through the water. As I've improved my catch is softer but I've become much more aware of what my legs are doing.

Nobody was really pleased to hear 5mins of solid kicking least of all me and as I got more and more tired my knee bent more and the washing of the water* was apparent again only from the feet this time.

What I notice about the really good swimmers in the club, and it is concurrent with interseted's points is that their kick is much neater. Looks more like a flutter than a kick and has a definite relationship with how the seamlessly roll from side to side..

*doing lots and going nowhere!.

jonnyfingers

Kicking is an interesting one. You do need a certain knack for it but of course anybody's technique can be improved. Most of the slower kickers in my triathlon club have a problem with ankle flexibility. A lot of them come from running and cycling backgrounds and find it hard to flatten the leg out all the way to the toes. The more flexibility you can get in your ankle, the flatter you can get your foot, and the more surface area you can use while kicking. That might be something the OP could look at to see if he has a similar problem.

In fact flexibility all over is good for kicking. When most people are kicking with a float they tend to keep their head out of the water. This will cause the legs to drop and make kicking harder and your progress through the water slower. More flexibility will lessEN this. Also if you keep your head in the water while kicking you will kick better. I tend to do my kicking drills on my side, like a fish, as I find when I do a normal front crawl I rotate so much that I'm practically on my side most of the time anway.

The last thing I consider when somebody is having a hard time with kicking is their kicking-specific fitness. I know the OP has said that people slower than him while doing full stroke are faster than him when kicking. This could be because he's not as fit while kicking as the others, due to this part of his body not having been worked as much as his upper body in the past while swimming. If you have a good upper body and have, over time, relied on it for most of your swimming fitness, then that part of you will get stronger and, usually, your kick will get weaker as it's not being used as much. That's the point of the kick drills in your masters swim class, to isolate your kicking and make it stronger. So don't look at the drills from a speed persective, look at them as a road to better kicking. The key is to keep your kicking in mind while doing full stroke work and not go straight back to focusing on your upper body only, which is easy to do. The more you practice kicking, the better and faster you'll get at it. And your overall swimming should improve also.

Pheidippides

I used to swim competitively, now I mostly run. When I swam I was always worst vs similar swimmers at kicking drills. Practise helps, but I did same training as the others...so I guess some of it is how much you use your kick in normal swimming... I agree that ankle flexibility is important but I think another factor is also important...foot shape, and I am being serious ...I have the skinniest narrowest feet, my son has super flippers for feet and he flies through the water just kicking!

ir666

I have similar kicking problems. So I just stick on the fins when it comes to the kicking drills.

I have a weak leg due to a knee injury so I dont want to aggravate things by bursting myself kicking trying to keep up with the others.

If I forget the fins I will just do less reps or pull a few sly strokes.

Kicking is tough, no doubt about it

Iron Enthusiast

Thanks a million for the responses!! (especially the info you posted “interested”)

It’s definitely nice to know I’m not alone suffering on this one!:o) I think I definitely get a lot of my power from my stroke and as such have a habit of letting my kick ‘tick over’ as much as I can when swimming distance. (but I do still kick consistently and steadily).

I can see the logic behind flexibility in the ankle and reckon that this is something I need to work on. Are there any particular stretches to do for this or is it just a case of making a conscious effort in the water to flatten out the foot?
I’ve run a couple of marathons and do a fair bit of cycling and think that I probably have a “stiff” or limited level of flexibility on my ankles as a result.

I’ll be taking all the advice from here and putting it into practice in the pool – (with the exception of the ‘particularly evil drill’ which Interested mentioned!:o)

Thanks a million again to you all for your help!:)

Pheidippides

I used to find that kicking with fins helped develope my ankle flexibility.
This might help?http://swimming.about.com/od/freeandback/a/runner_kick.htm

Mainah

Definitely sit on your feet like the link in the previous post suggests. This was something my swim coaches growing up used to always stress and it's something I continue to do now. You should try to keep your ankles loose in the water though.

You can also use fins to exaggerate the proper kicking motion - when you wear them it's easier to feel the correct foot and ankle position, but I would try not to become dependent on them.

Good luck with it! :pac:

Macanri

Can you explain what way your fee should be etc for sitting on your feet as stated above. ie please describe what you should do. Cheers.

Pheidippides

To sit on your feet: Kneel on floor, then place your insteps and shins flat on floor, bend fully at knees and sit on heels/soles. Leave for 20-30s or as long as you can bear. If this is easy; you already have good flexibility.
You can exaggerate by lifting knees off floor (By pushing down with hands on floor) to stretch a little further further.
Generally good kickers can bend their ankle (instep to shin) >180 degrees.

Macanri

Thanks very much for that. Very detailed. I seem to be able to get to 180, not greater than that though.

Macanri

Oopps