Should Coughlan have gone instead of O Dea?

SC024

All Willie O Dea seems to have done is got cought out lying? Politicians do that for a living anyway? In fairness to him he's done pretty ok in defence?

Coughlan on the other hand seems to have made the stupidist mistake of the year? She seems to make one mistake after another?

I dont think it says much for the opposition if there making W O Dea walk the plank and leaving Coughlan alone?

Cowen has a friend he doesn't realise in Enda Kenny

Liam Byrne

Politicians lie to us, and some of the public fall for it.

That's not a crime.

In actual fact, if you take the "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" adage, it's the public's own fault (or at least a subset of them).

Lying to a court - or, for that matter, a tribunal - is another story entirely.

JonathanAnon

Cowans problem is that he has surrounded himself with friends instead of talent. FF are picking up in the poles, which is AMAZING considering the state their party has brought the country to. And now with the FG implosion it is a realistic possibility that FF could be voted back in in 2012. BUT, I think there are two main issues against them..

1) Cowan is a terrible media presence. He will simply not get votes. They certainly will not have him on the posters like the did with Bertie.
2) Choice of poor Ministers who continuously bring criticism on the party. I mean how the hell do Mary Coughlan, Noel Dempsey, and Martin Cullen keep their posts...

I think FF would have a very strong chance of winning the next election against "New Enda" if they could change these two issues.

Liam Byrne

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I think FF would have a very strong chance of winning the next election against "New Enda" if they could change these two issues.

Only if their canvassers have those zappers from "Men in Black" to use on you on your doorstep.

But since I won't even be opening the door to them, I'll be saved!

So I'll come on here and remind ye of all the incompetence and corruption so that ye can make an informed, educated vote.

Our man in Havana

I can guarantee you Brian Cowan will get 20000 votes easily in LS/OY at the next election.

TheWestsAwake

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Cowans problem is that he has surrounded himself with friends instead of talent. FF are picking up in the poles, which is AMAZING considering the state their party has brought the country to. And now with the FG implosion it is a realistic possibility that FF could be voted back in in 2012. BUT, I think there are two main issues against them..

1) Cowan is a terrible media presence. He will simply not get votes. They certainly will not have him on the posters like the did with Bertie.
2) Choice of poor Ministers who continuously bring criticism on the party. I mean how the hell do Mary Coughlan, Noel Dempsey, and Martin Cullen keep their posts...

I think FF would have a very strong chance of winning the next election against "New Enda" if they could change these two issues.

Amazing that you should think so, from what I see this week, it is Fianna Fail that is imploding, FG & Kenny seem to have been invigorated. Kenny & co. have been excellent of late. From where I am looking it seems that the government is on borrowed time.

Scofflaw

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Cowans problem is that he has surrounded himself with friends instead of talent. FF are picking up in the poles, which is AMAZING considering the state their party has brought the country to. And now with the FG implosion it is a realistic possibility that FF could be voted back in in 2012. BUT, I think there are two main issues against them..

1) Cowan is a terrible media presence. He will simply not get votes. They certainly will not have him on the posters like the did with Bertie.
2) Choice of poor Ministers who continuously bring criticism on the party. I mean how the hell do Mary Coughlan, Noel Dempsey, and Martin Cullen keep their posts...

I think FF would have a very strong chance of winning the next election against "New Enda" if they could change these two issues.

Six months before the election, ditch Cowen and run with Lenihan as Taoiseach. However, that assumes that the current game of attrition leaves them in a position to safely do so.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Red_Marauder

No she shouldn't have gone instead of him. Their failures as ministers are unrelated. They should both have gone.

jimmycrackcorm

Why exactly should Coughlan go? Surely not for MOL's jobs jobs wind-up, another publicity stunt like the pay-toilets on planes.

RichMc70

Why not Coughlan should have gone as well as O'Dea?

IMO neither of them seem competent to be part of government. TD's, sure maybe, but ministers...NO.

kmart6

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why exactly should Coughlan go? Surely not for MOL's jobs jobs wind-up, another publicity stunt like the pay-toilets on planes.

If that's the reason people are giving then it is ridiculous!

mysillyusername

but if O'Leary showed anything it was the red tape and hoops and barriers that have to be overcome to get anywhere in this country..its just plain wrong...

kmart6

mysillyusername wrote: »

but if O'Leary showed anything it was the red tape and hoops and barriers that have to be overcome to get anywhere in this country..its just plain wrong...

Oh yes cause it's only this country that follows laws and procedures!:rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

mysillyusername wrote: »

but if O'Leary showed anything it was the red tape and hoops and barriers that have to be overcome to get anywhere in this country..its just plain wrong...

No - he could have another hanger but perhaps Hanger 6 might make a nice terminal down the line. He used the promise of jobs in a recession to try to buy a cheap hanger (specifically asking for it for the price the DAA paid to have it back from SR technics). He's a bully and just wanted to force his own terms by embarassing the government.

If you don't believe this then google what happened when MOL pitted Boeing against Airbus...
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Airbus+on+alert+in+wake+of+Ryanair's+Boeing+threat;+O'Leary+warns...-a0211042564

RYANAIR chief executive Michael O'Leary
threatened to cut all links with US plane maker Boeing unless it bowed to the Irish carrier's terms for 200 new aircraft scheduled for delivery between 2013 and 2016.

The notoriously bluff Mr O'Leary believes Boeing has plenty of room for manoeuvre, saying: "We see no point in continuing to grow rapidly in a declining yield environment where our main aircraft partner is unwilling to play its part in our cost reduction programme by passing on some of the enormous savings which Boeing have enjoyed both from suppliers and more efficient manufacturing in recent years.

Do you see a similar theme...

We'll buy planes from someone else unless you bow down to us.

We'll send jobs elsewhere unless you give us "terminal" 6

Ashill5

O'Leary is dead right to push for what he wants and in doing so he is showing up that this Goverment is not capable sorting out this country when they cannot sort something like this out !!!!!!!!! At least he showing a bit of leadership ! By any chance could he charter off a plane for the goverment to head off to the sunset:D

ednwireland

Ashill5 wrote: »

O'Leary is dead right to push for what he wants and in doing so he is showing up that this Goverment is not capable sorting out this country when they cannot sort something like this out !!!!!!!!! At least he showing a bit of leadership ! By any chance could he charter off a plane for the goverment to head off to the sunset:D

i think you need to read more about this issue (try hanger already leased to EI, MOL building a service base in prestwick i honestly beleive MOl is playing this because he needs that hanger now and 12 to 18 months down the line he would move it all to prestwick, no other country would give him the time of day if he tried kicking existing tenants out of hangers. and i dont beleive there will ever be 300 jobs if ryanair come in)

coughlan should go but so should the rest of the gov. tbh
(and she's my td)

willie o'dea should resign as a td if he lied in court, full stop.

Dont be at yourself

ednwireland wrote: »

willie o'dea should resign as a td if he lied in court, full stop.

Never mind about resigning, he should be facing a judge.

Vim Fuego

Can someone explain how he can be forced to resign as a minister but can stay on as a TD? It doesn't make sense to me. Is it ok for TDs to get up to that sort of thing?

Liam Byrne

Vim Fuego wrote: »

Can someone explain how he can be forced to resign as a minister but can stay on as a TD? It doesn't make sense to me. Is it ok for TDs to get up to that sort of thing?

Seems to be the done thing. Ahern & O'Donoghue are still TDs too.

freewheeler

Unfortunately this is a FF legacy..the bigger gangster you are the more you are rewarded. What we really need is a revolution in this country as unfortunately we have now reached a stage where our country is rotten to its core. It pains me to have reached this conclusion but the facts are there to see..this 'government' are a bloody disgrace and we as a nation are a bloody disgrace for putting up with them. The corruption runs so deep at this stage its hard to know where to begin to clean it up. I would like to ask all the FF voters on here if they are happy to continue to support this party that is built on lies & corruption? Have they so little love and ambition for our country that they believe this is the best we can do? How many more scandals do we have to endure?

droicead

ive never posted on any of these forums before but the events of this last week have
left me with a nasty feeling about what is going on at home.ive this is in the wrong
section i do apologise,i work on the continent and get home as often as i can and
consider myself to be a proud irishman,so to put it as patrick kavanagh puts it[as in
its easier to see what is going on when you are somewhat outside of society]i keep
myself up to date with what is going on at home via the usual news websites.
Im involved in the aviation side of things so there is the intrest in this for me!
all i saw his week was ryanair(and say what you want about them,good bad or
indiferent)offering jobs to a sector that was hit hard at home,300 jobs and who is to say that it wouldnt have led to more?now i dont consider myself to be highly intelligent but that is 300 jobs more than what aerlingus are offering atm...common sense should be telling whoever is calling the shots( government)to get a move on and make sure potential jobs are not lost to somewhere else!!!!it is that simple...and it just proves to me that my beloved country is been run into the ground..i know there is contracts signed and daa is involved..bla bla bla..i really dont give a f*^k ,at the end of the day the government should pull out all the stops and do EVERYTHING in their power and get the company(homegrown) offering employment into position to do so...and why stop there??a lot of work is done for ryanair in stanstead,whats wrong with doing it at home?
from little seeds and all that!...
i know of many hangers on the continent that have maintenance carried out on many different types of aircraft under the one roof,i have been in this hanger 6 before and it is huge!is it full with aerlingus planes atm???what is wrong with aerlingus (just to say)having work done in one section and ryanair work in another area?i believe ryanair have
a fleet consisting of boeing 737s and aerlingus cosists of all airbus!parts wouldnt get mixed up!..harp and shamrock under one roof.why not?yes i know people will read this and say what is this nut on about but think about it at the end of the day its jobs that
been scoffed at,cash is king and it seems brown envelopes and back handers are going on,
ive read about the old boys club like the old school heads in aerlingus and daa or whoever,what i say to them is o' leary is offering jobs now,what are you offering??
brian cowen said something about a contract that couldnt be torn up..are you not the top don in the country brian?

once again sorry if this is in the wrong section

Red_Marauder

Vim Fuego wrote: »

Can someone explain how he can be forced to resign as a minister but can stay on as a TD? It doesn't make sense to me. Is it ok for TDs to get up to that sort of thing?

I guess it's fair that their are different degrees of punishment.

He punishment in this case is a diminution of his influence towards defence policy as Minister, and towards Government policy in general as a member of cabinet.

A punishment of greater magnitude for a more serious misdemeanour would result removal from all Oireachtas responsibilities but I don't think it has generally been judged to be that serious in the media, the media being King here.

TheManHimself

They both should have gone to be honest. But Coughlan's actions will have far more detrimental effects than O'Dea's

Darsad

Based on a number of articles and the interview with MOL in Sindo the woman is way in over her head and has to go , but unfortunately Clowen is too stupid or depressed to bother his ass to do anything about it !

Spiritoftheseventies

Did Coughlan commit perjury?

reprazant

Fake Locke wrote: »

Did Coughlan commit perjury?

No but neither did O'Dea.

Duffy7

With Willie gone, Coughlan should join him. The Ryanair jobs fiasco just gets worse and calls into question any other dealings the Minister may have had with other companies.

jmayo

SC024 wrote: »

All Willie O Dea seems to have done is got cought out lying? Politicians do that for a living anyway? In fairness to him he's done pretty ok in defence?

Coughlan on the other hand seems to have made the stupidist mistake of the year? She seems to make one mistake after another?

I dont think it says much for the opposition if there making W O Dea walk the plank and leaving Coughlan alone?

Cowen has a friend he doesn't realise in Enda Kenny

Jeze f***ing Ch***, what is f***ing wrong with this country.
We have no f***ing civic pride.

o'dea lied in a sworn affidavit to the second highest court in the state.

Now if you think that is ok then that just shows your contempt for our legal system, but some of us in this country think that somebody that does that should not alone be removed as minister and TD, but should be facing court charges.

coughlan is inept and in way over her head.
She should have gone ages ago for incompetence.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Six months before the election, ditch Cowen and run with Lenihan as Taoiseach. However, that assumes that the current game of attrition leaves them in a position to safely do so.

cordially,
Scofflaw

This would be the great champion, the brave man fighting cancer, the great man to represent new face of ff.
BS.
Did you watch his defence of o'dea last Wednesday ?

Interesting how much regard brian lenihan the senior counsel, the ex law lecturer and spouse of a circuit court judge has for the rule of law in this shi*hole country.
He doesn't have a problem with a cabinet colleague and public representative lying on sworn affidavits to the high court.

He is just like the rest of ff as he showed in the motion of confidence in o'dea.
Party first, country second.

dan_d

Correct me if I'm wrong here.........................................the man who is a barrister AND a politician lied in a sworn affidavit and doesn't seem to see what's wrong with that.

I'm with jmayo on this. What the f%&k is wrong with this country - politicians AND people included.

Redwolfe

FF hate Ryanair - not surprising as O'Leary has had it in for them for yonks - and they've allowed that to affect their judgement. O'Leary apparently offered to buy hangar 6 (or lease it or whatever) the minute SR Technics moved out. He offered to put it in the contract that the hangar would only be used for maintenance.

So why did the DAA rush off and do a deal with Aer Lingus instead? Because they hate Ryanair too!

There are many reasons to dislike O'Leary but he's one of the few mega-businessmen in this country to pay his taxes at home. I believe he's (quietly) a patriot and one who's willing to put his money where his mouth is. Unlike the government who show their patriotism by wasting our hard-earned cash. I believe that given his way O'Leary would bring a lot more work and business to Dublin. Ok, the new maintenance jobs might not be as well-paid as people would like, but right now, there are NO jobs.

He's refused the offer of having a hanger built for him and he's quite right 'cos it'd take years if it ever happened. He's a man in a hurry, dealing with a bureaucracy mired in treacle.

Of course, he's naieve to expect his company to be treated like all others. He's spent years actively alienating the government and the DAA, so what does he expect?

Coughlan is not alone in her attitude to Ryanair. The whole cabinet was probably behind her decisions. This is not just a red-tape issue, it's a visceral-hatred-of-Ryanair issue. The government should get over it because Ryanair is one of our few mega-successful companies. (Where's waterford wedgewood now? Where are the banks?) But they won't.

So, I believe Coughlan should be moved because she's not up to scratch. But not for the Ryanair debacle - that was just government policy.