LBS - just a sting operation?

uberwolf

a little emotive maybe. I sought a quote for two bikes that were within a budget based on online prices (an Irish website btw!)

the prices I was quoted are enough to nearly wipe out the benefit of the C2W discount (at the upper rate.) I know it's prob bad form to wave online prices in front of them, they can't compete, and I'm happy to pay a modest premium.

uberwolf

apologies for the frustrated post. I just hadn't anticipated the gap in quotes.

two bikes were 1100 online - 1400 in store, or 1400 online, 1800 in store.

I'm going to say it to the shop. I wasn't inclined to, because the gap is so substantial that it's nearly insulting to both parties to highlight the original rip off.
I'd buy at 1150/1200 for the first bike, to acknowledge higher costs and greater service expectations.

Captain Havoc

uberwolf wrote: »

apologies for the frustrated post. I just hadn't anticipated the gap in quotes.

two bikes were 1100 online - 1400 in store, or 1400 online, 1800 in store.

I'm going to say it to the shop. I wasn't inclined to, because the gap is so substantial that it's nearly insulting to both parties to highlight the original rip off.
I'd buy at 1150/1200 for the first bike, to acknowledge higher costs and greater service expectations.

You're completely right, my LBS knows I'll never buy a bike from him but doesn't mind because I drop him a few quid in repairs, services and other equipment. I'm probably worth more to him than most of his customers anyway. The one place my LBS is good at is clothing, wouldn't be much difference from online. As for going into an LBS and waving an online price, he can accept or reject the offer, it's up to him, a price tag is only an invitation to treat. You'll never save any money by not asking or as Wayne Gretsky put it: "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take". I sell furniture and people offer me less money all the time, I explain to them that I can't do it but sometimes I might know a promotion is coming up and can tell them (but only if I think they're going to walk out the door).

kona

Captain Havoc wrote: »

You're completely right, my LBS knows I'll never buy a bike from him but doesn't mind because I drop him a few quid in repairs, services and other equipment. I'm probably worth more to him than most of his customers anyway. The one place my LBS is good at is clothing, wouldn't be much difference from online. As for going into an LBS and waving an online price, he can accept or reject the offer, it's up to him, a price tag is only an invitation to treat. You'll never save any money by not asking or as Wayne Gretsky put it: "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take". I sell furniture and people offer me less money all the time, I explain to them that I can't do it but sometimes I might know a promotion is coming up and can tell them (but only if I think they're going to walk out the door).

bike shops make feck all %profit on premium bikes. Its accesories and repairs where its at.

His cost price is probably more than the quotes from online...

Dr_Colossus

It's the same with most big ticket items in this country, the markup of shops over online stores seems to be in the region of 25%+ which is astronomical given the actual euro difference.
I know when I bought my Garmin 705 last year there was nearly 100 euro in the difference between the price I paid and the cheapest I could see it in 5 LBSs i tried. And that's just a small little box that doesn't take up much storage or shelf space.
It's not just in bikes and components that these sort of mark ups are evident. I bought a digital piano in the middle of 2008, after doing the research I identified the one I wanted and the total came to 2,300 in Waltons. I got the exact same model shipped and delivered from an online store in Germany for 1,800. Don't know how they expect Irish customers to pay such ridiculous margins on big ticket items. I'd expect 5% extra on 1,000+ euro items and especially if they're large items that involve storage and display but 25%+ is just a blatant rip off.

uberwolf

kona wrote: »

His cost price is probably more than the quotes from online...

this was an irish website though. Not CRC or wiggle or [insert big name here]

cost of property + wages.

Captain Havoc

It's not all that complicated, if people buy it at rediculous prices they will continue to sell it at rediculous prices. When I was in hotels I would usually aim for a GP of about 70%, LBS' go for around 50%. I believe they are entitled to charge what they like just as I'm entitled to spend my money on what I like, main thing is, if you don't make an offer you're never going to get a deal, the LBS may appreciate that there's more money to be made from you in the future.

IM0

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It's not all that complicated, if people buy it at rediculous prices they will continue to sell it at rediculous prices. When I was in hotels I would usually aim for a GP of about 70%,

and yet now your selling furnature.

Captain Havoc

me@ucd wrote: »

and yet now your selling furnature.

That is correct, I graduated in Hotel Management and Business Studies from Shannon College of Hotel Management, all in all I was 10 years in the hotel industry and I've been 2 1/2 years selling furniture (minus 6 months unemployment).

kona

uberwolf wrote: »

this was an irish website though. Not CRC or wiggle or [insert big name here]

cost of property + wages.

Apparantley Trek charge a higher CP for Ireland than the UK.

Also,

LBS tend to have higher prices because of the properties and wages mentioned, but also the "Can you throw in the accessories free" Brigade.
Id imagine LBS add at least e50 onto their bikes to facilitate this crap.

Im sure you could negotiate a fair deal , bear in mind that if the website is pure online, that they may be able to source their bikes from other suppliers, not in Ireland.

Trojan

kona wrote: »

LBS tend to have higher prices because of the properties and wages mentioned, but also the "Can you throw in the accessories free" Brigade.
Id imagine LBS add at least e50 onto their bikes to facilitate this crap.

I *always* ask for them to throw accessories in for free or heavy discount, because it's one of the few ways to get a average to good deal in LBS. I'd happily pay full whack on accessories if the LBS can come within 10-12% of online pricing for main purchase.

Don't confuse the chicken and egg here, the LBS has always had 50 on the price to facilitate accessories.

A lot of retail do this, it's a game as much as anything.[Edit: I'm not in retail but know plenty who are]

kona

Trojan wrote: »

I *always* ask for them to throw accessories in for free or heavy discount, because it's one of the few ways to get a average to good deal in LBS. I'd happily pay full whack on accessories if the LBS can come within 10-12% of online pricing for main purchase.

Don't confuse the chicken and egg here, the LBS has always had 50 on the price to facilitate accessories.

A lot of retail do this, it's a game as much as anything.[Edit: I'm not in retail but know plenty who are]

Your right it is a game. A game thats a pain in the arse. If you want something you can pay for it, its black and white. Dont muddy the waters by expecting(yes Ive had people walk out when they didnt get stuff "Thrown in":rolleyes:, fair enough go elswhere, I know the price for the bike was the cheapest you will get).

Its a fairer system to give discounts to people buying accessories with their bikes. That was a customer isnt being ripped if they dont want the accessories.

Its a load of ****e that only seems to infect people buying bikes? You pay for stuff, no such thing as a freebie. Its how the whole system works, and its not new, the poxy Romans had it mastered.

////*********Enters shop**********////

Me: ah Im buying a litre of milk, can you throw in some bread??

Shopkeeper: Ha No sorry we cant do that.

Me: SHakes fist in anger at lack of deal, Ill take my money elsewhere!

////*******Exits Shop*******////

If Jake stevens from naked camera is reading, please do this skit:D


Trojan, this isnt aimed at you, I just dont see the logic to the whole "Game" its just ends up that the bikes are priced higher.

Then said morons complain and argue with me, create a scene and storm out! and then shop online:(

No win.

kona

Trojan wrote: »

I *always* ask for them to throw accessories in for free or heavy discount, because it's one of the few ways to get a average to good deal in LBS. I'd happily pay full whack on accessories if the LBS can come within 10-12% of online pricing for main purchase.

Don't confuse the chicken and egg here, the LBS has always had 50 on the price to facilitate accessories.

A lot of retail do this, it's a game as much as anything.[Edit: I'm not in retail but know plenty who are]

Your right it is a game. A game thats a pain in the arse. If you want something you can pay for it, its black and white. Dont muddy the waters by expecting(yes Ive had people walk out when they didnt get stuff "Thrown in":rolleyes:, fair enough go elswhere, I know the price for the bike was the cheapest you will get).

Its a fairer system to give discounts to people buying accessories with their bikes. That was a customer isnt being ripped if they dont want the accessories.

Its a load of ****e that only seems to infect people buying bikes? You pay for stuff, no such thing as a freebie. Its how the whole system works, and its not new, the poxy Romans had it mastered.

////*********Enters shop**********////

Me: ah Im buying a litre of milk, can you throw in some bread??

Shopkeeper: Ha No sorry we cant do that.

Me: SHakes fist in anger at lack of deal, Ill take my money elsewhere!

////*******Exits Shop*******////

If Jake stevens from naked camera is reading, please do this skit:D


Trojan, this isnt aimed at you, I just dont see the logic to the whole "Game" its just ends up that the bikes are priced higher.

Then said morons complain and argue with me, create a scene and storm out! and then shop online:(

No win.

If you shop around, ive found some super Deals in LBS( Deore shifters e15 anybody?), deals no online shop could dream of. I rarely pay top dollar for anything bike related, even if Im buying at another store.

tunney

uberwolf wrote: »

a little emotive maybe. I sought a quote for two bikes that were within a budget based on online prices (an Irish website btw!)

the prices I was quoted are enough to nearly wipe out the benefit of the C2W discount (at the upper rate.) I know it's prob bad form to wave online prices in front of them, they can't compete, and I'm happy to pay a modest premium.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that LBSs significantly raised the prices of bikes that people may purchase under C2W. They deserve to be cruxified for this one.

tunney

kona wrote: »

bike shops make feck all %profit on premium bikes. Its accesories and repairs where its at.

His cost price is probably more than the quotes from online...

Margins on treks are 30% from top to bottom.

Other brans yes the margins reduce as you go up the range.

zzzzzzzz

Some bike shops can compete with online retailers. I priced a frame last week in a local shop and it works out about €100 cheaper than I found it online...

ROK ON

In the past 15 months I have bought three bikes from LBS. They would not have been cheaper online, particulalry when you include the "freebies", bottle cages, bottles, pumps etc.
It is often down to both the store and the brand. None of the bikes would be well known brands, so that may help. Eg, I often think that the really popular brands (Trek, Giant Specialized) are more expensive instore versus online. Also, I have noticed that the ultra high end bikes (say Cervello, Colnago, Pinarello, whateverello) are more expensive instore also - but that may be due to a certain degree of price inelasticity/snob value. Dunno. Just musings.

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

I have noticed that the ultra high end bikes (say Cervello, Colnago, Pinarello, whateverello) are more expensive instore also - but that may be due to a certain degree of price inelasticity/snob value.

I recently saw someone walk into Cycleways and buy a top-end carbon Specialized MTB for list price in the time it took me to try on a pair of shoes. Looked like a well-heeled tourist/drug dealer.

I think they assume that anyone normal would just haggle the price down a bit.

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

I recently saw someone walk into Cycleways and buy a top-end carbon Specialized MTB for list price in the time it took me to try on a pair of shoes. Looked like a well-heeled tourist/drug dealer.

I think they assume that anyone normal would just haggle the price down a bit.

You should have taken advantge of that sale to buy a bike. They would hav made the margin so could afford to discount heavily for you;)

kona

tunney wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence suggests that LBSs significantly raised the prices of bikes that people may purchase under C2W. They deserve to be cruxified for this one.

If anything Id have said the opposite, proper bikes have gotten cheaper IMO, I'd imagine this is due to the serious amount that are being sold here, I mean even take this forum for example, 3 years ago it was mainly Hi-Vis Hybrid man. Now alot of the posters have multiple bikes, and really top end stuff.

Take a look on the road too, it seems lots of middle aged lads are out taking up the sport,(be it because of the cycle2work or whatever) I've seen lads who clearly aint in the sport long, on bikes upwards of e1500.

So I suppose Im trying to say, since demand is there, the manufacturers are increasing their supply to Ireland and so we are getting the discouts passed on from the LBS buying in bulk.

Just my Theory on it. There is defo no recession on bike shops IMO.