Racist mate?

LegacyUser

Hey,
I was at a mates place today, and somehow the conversation got on to foreign nationals and the frequency with which he has to deal with them in his line of work. It was in reference to another mate of his who is somewhat outspoken about his views (apparently has a hitler-sounding ring tone etc). I said that it was weird that (other guy) was racist, and my mate effectively went on to kind of defend the other guys views, rather than object to them which is what I was expecting.

He said that he will make presumptions about foreigners based on where they are from and that he feels there should be tighter border controls etc etc. He said he doesn't have a problem with foreigners as long as they are 'Westernised', but he would have a problem with people from countries whose culture is much different to ours. I said "As in, the whole of Africa?" and he said yes.

I am to help him out with a job tomorrow, and am now having second thoughts about doing this because of the above. I don't want to help him out if they are actually his view points, because I don't want to just go along with it in a "sure everythings grand" kind of way. I hate and am very much against racism and any kind of fascism.

Now, I know he is not an out and out racist and that he wouldn't hold opinions against someone just because of their skin colour - but it seems if he deems them unfitting with our culture he would have stronger opinions.

I'm not sure what way to think about it so I was just hoping to get some feedback really.

Angus Og

Might be just real xenophobia, as in, he has a fear of what 'foreigners' will do when they come to Ireland. It's not an uncommon problem, especially in days of bad economy. You could try and talk to him about, and see if he really is racist. I mean, if this is a surprise to you, then he could hardly be a hardcore racist.

If you believe racism is wrong, don't just ignore it, especially when your friends are showing signs. Tell him you're against it.

silverharp

everyone is entitled to their views so unless he is being very boring about it and it comes up as a rant in every conversation or he acts out in public I dont see a particular problem. tbh they dont even sound that extreme going by some of the threads on boards.

It would seem to be a little bit "holier then thou" to want to judge your friends about what appears to be an "abstract" issue in his case.

AvaKinder

I have had friends who are racist. While I'm very much against it, there wasn't much I could do to change their views. I simply didn't have those kind of discussions with said mates. And under no circumstances are racist jokes' allowed in my house. Gave a friend a three strikes and you're out warning one night when i had a party and she actually left without a bother and no further comments when she got caught saying stuff the third time. still see them, but they just keep that **** to themselves around me.

However if you're putting this person up for a job, what they say or do could reflect badly on you.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

For the record, wanting tighter border controls and a wish to see immigrants 'westernised' are not necessarily racist viewpoints.

People may have these opinions as a wish to preserve a stable economy and traditional culture and doesn't necessarily equate to racism.

These are NOT my views, but I think it's important to look at things from other peoples point of view and not to judge to harshly

LegacyUser

Kody Hollow Bait wrote: »

For the record, wanting tighter border controls and a wish to see immigrants 'westernised' are not necessarily racist viewpoints.

People may have these opinions as a wish to preserve a stable economy and traditional culture and doesn't necessarily equate to racism.

These are NOT my views, but I think it's important to look at things from other peoples point of view and not to judge to harshly

My thoughts exactly.

I also don't like censoring people. In my personal circle I know lots of people who have swallowed the PC bible. I also some people like your friend and I even know a few holocaust deniers. Everyone is entitled to their own views, and I'd rather live in a society where people are allowed air them.

In fact, your friend doesn't even sound all that rascist.

Ask yourself: is your friend a good person? And take it from there. I've known lads who would talk up a ****storm about the blacks and the this and that but they'd genuinely fall over themselves to be nice to any foreigner they met.

Racism is literally not as black and white as it first appears, and contradiction is everywhere. Some of the biggest racists I've ever met have been people of colour; some of the leading holocaust deniers are Jewish. So who are you to set yourself up as the judge of what's racist and what isn't? PC can be the new form of fascism.

I do hope this thread doesn't turn into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of racism. Assuming that you genuinely want the PI answer, I'd say, let your mate get on with it. If you think he doesn't have much tact about when he spouts off about his views, then have a quiet word. If you're worried about being judged by others about him, then I'd say you're more likely to be judged on whether your mate is a nice lad or not than on his relatively moderate nationalistic worldview.

Though of course, if you really feel from the bottom of your soul that your friend is misguided or a BAD PERSON then be straight with him; let him know that you have judged him and found him wanting and accept the consequences of that. I wouldn't go having a second word with his potential employers though, as you could come off looking a bit flakey or extremist.

I do applaud your good intentions; but nothing here is as simple as it first appears so don't fall into the trap of 'I'm right - you're wrong - end of' cause closed minds achieve nothing.

gonnaplayrugby

thegreybit wrote: »

My thoughts exactly.

I also don't like censoring people. In my personal circle I know lots of people who have swallowed the PC bible. I also some people like your friend and I even know a few holocaust deniers. Everyone is entitled to their own views, and I'd rather live in a society where people are allowed air them.

In fact, your friend doesn't even sound all that rascist.

Ask yourself: is your friend a good person? And take it from there. I've known lads who would talk up a ****storm about the blacks and the this and that but they'd genuinely fall over themselves to be nice to any foreigner they met.

Racism is literally not as black and white as it first appears, and contradiction is everywhere. Some of the biggest racists I've ever met have been people of colour; some of the leading holocaust deniers are Jewish. So who are you to set yourself up as the judge of what's racist and what isn't? PC can be the new form of fascism.

I do hope this thread doesn't turn into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of racism. Assuming that you genuinely want the PI answer, I'd say, let your mate get on with it. If you think he doesn't have much tact about when he spouts off about his views, then have a quiet word. If you're worried about being judged by others about him, then I'd say you're more likely to be judged on whether your mate is a nice lad or not than on his relatively moderate nationalistic worldview.

Though of course, if you really feel from the bottom of your soul that your friend is misguided or a BAD PERSON then be straight with him; let him know that you have judged him and found him wanting and accept the consequences of that. I wouldn't go having a second word with his potential employers though, as you could come off looking a bit flakey or extremist.

I do applaud your good intentions; but nothing here is as simple as it first appears so don't fall into the trap of 'I'm right - you're wrong - end of' cause closed minds achieve nothing.

yeah like whites? why are u suprised? of course other races are racist. who said they aren't. we live in monoethnic society so of course in ireland when we talk about racism it will be from the minorities perspective.

LegacyUser

gonnaplayrugby wrote: »

yeah like whites? why are u suprised? of course other races are racist. who said they aren't. we live in monoethnic society so of course in ireland when we talk about racism it will be from the minorities perspective.

Ok, point taken.

But I still stand by the rest of it! All I'm saying is that the OP should think carefully before getting on his high horse about his mate's beliefs, especially when some people wouldn't even consider his friend racist. Sometimes people who have a simplistic view of things are people who don't even understand the issue - the OP sounded slightly naive, no offense OP. Anyway, I don't wanna debate racism so I shoulda kept the trap shut! His query was how to handle his mate.

cafecolour

OP, I think most people view this as political issue while you seem to view it more of a moral one. It's much easier to have mates of different political stripes (you either don't discuss it or you enjoy arguing). For something you consider immoral, that's more difficult, and you have to weigh it against how they normally behave, and what you get out of the friendship.

For the record, I'd say your friend's opinion is not exactly uncommon in Ireland (or in many countries - ie see the reception to the Irish in the US say 100 years ago or in England at almost any point).

I'd also say make sure to consider if you're really devoid of prejudice of yourself. For instance, I've known plenty of folk who claim they have no bias against any group, and then you mention Travelers

pfishfood

Hi op i can understand why you'd be a bit annoyed at your friend but those are his opinions. You might think that he of all people should know better but those are his opinions, now saying that opinions can change over time.

Another thing is that if someones in the line of say security they generally deal with the worst of the worst and some can have a harsher view on certain elasticities. Mainly because of the experiences that this person may have had.

To make one thing clear is that most people in this line of work are not racist and have a generally level headed view but some can have extreme views.

Denerick

Politically correct hysteria really. Desiring cultural homogenity is NOT a sign of 'fascism' at all, one need only look at the social problems in many European cities to see that when these problems aren't tackled effectively they leave lasting scar's. Don't be so judgemental. Personally I favour sensible levels of immigration, for both economic and cultural reasons (Immigrants help to dilute national boredom levels) but I also recognise that people might disagree with me. It doesn't necessarily make them racist!

extrinzic

Sounds to me like your friends mate has been whispering ****ty nothings in his ear. Hitler ringtone, wtf. To make presumptions about somebody because of where they are from is racist, but then again, we tend to all be racist when we acknowledge such a thing as race in the firstplace. Identifying race is something we tend to do but it takes an education and a lot of honesty to see that the race I identify with is no better than any other. The problem is when people make presumptions and believe they are entitled to keep said presumptions regardless of the reality of the situation. I presume these guys had the privilege of an education and your friend should make an educated observation about what going on in Ireland today. People shouldn’t be judged simply because they come from a particular place or are members of a particular ethnic categorisation. If your friend persists with racially prejudice views, you should judge him on the only basis a person should be judged, their behaviour.

Bottle_of_Smoke

He doesn't sound racist to me at all. When people say they don't want other cultures coming in they usually only have a problem with extremists of other cultures.

Guarantee you if he worked with a devout Muslim he'd treat him/her the exact same way as everyone else so long as they didn't support the destruction of the west/suicide bombers etc

Eric Cartman

1pound wrote: »

Hey,
I was at a mates place today, and somehow the conversation got on to foreign nationals and the frequency with which he has to deal with them in his line of work. It was in reference to another mate of his who is somewhat outspoken about his views (apparently has a hitler-sounding ring tone etc). I said that it was weird that (other guy) was racist, and my mate effectively went on to kind of defend the other guys views, rather than object to them which is what I was expecting.

He said that he will make presumptions about foreigners based on where they are from and that he feels there should be tighter border controls etc etc. He said he doesn't have a problem with foreigners as long as they are 'Westernised', but he would have a problem with people from countries whose culture is much different to ours. I said "As in, the whole of Africa?" and he said yes.

I am to help him out with a job tomorrow, and am now having second thoughts about doing this because of the above. I don't want to help him out if they are actually his view points, because I don't want to just go along with it in a "sure everythings grand" kind of way. I hate and am very much against racism and any kind of fascism.

Now, I know he is not an out and out racist and that he wouldn't hold opinions against someone just because of their skin colour - but it seems if he deems them unfitting with our culture he would have stronger opinions.

I'm not sure what way to think about it so I was just hoping to get some feedback really.

I can understand you disagreeing with him over these issues, you have your beliefs , he has his and im sure hed condescend your views, but think about it hes still the same person you knew before this issue came up, would you react the same way if he didnt like pizza and you did ? ,

let him have his views on this and you have yours, its a minor issue with him (its not like he actually goes and harms foreigners or wears a klan robe out), disliking somebody because of a belief is prejudiced so as much as he may have beliefs you consider prejudiced it would be prejudiced of you to dislike anyone with opposing views to yours, it goes both ways

id say let it go and unless he actually starts harming people let him have his opinions and you keep yours

LegacyUser

OP here,
Thanks for all the replies. In the end I told him that I did not agree with or wanted to be associated with his views on race. He was surprised at this, I guess because he didn't expect something that he was conversing about the previous evening to be brought up again the next day in such a fashion. So, as I said, he's not actively racist by any means and he is definitely a good guy. And in the end we just said that we're each entitled to our views and left it at that.

To those saying that my concerns were overly PC, I do realise people can favour more strict rules regarding border controls etc without a racist agenda, and making presumptions about people based on their race is something that everyone does and can't help but do - in the same way someone wearing a tracksuit and baseball cap will give me a different first impression to someone wearing a poncho and sandals! But when it carries a tone of aggression and mockery (which it did the night it all first came up), one does get the impression that there are unhealthy factors involved as well.

And if I see these elements manifesting and being broadcast amongst my group of friends, I will raise my voice about it. If someone gets offended by this, then a rational discussion will surely settle things and if it doesn't then they probably have a reason to be defensive in which case I was right to raise the issue in the first place. And in doing so I'm not trying to be the do-gooder warrior of political correctness or any such thing, but I would encourage anyone to raise their voice about things that do bother them and that's simply what this was about.

Thanks again for the input.

BumbleB

It's a really good thing to be able to look at something from another persons perspective .I don't think your friend is racist at all. One thing I've noticed is that on a one to one basis people that are considered racist aren't actually hostile to foreigners.

Hitler thought his ideals were noble and they were good in theory,but the way he went about achieving them was not.

Racism and extremism is all around us but really to survive as a race we have to protect our own.Remember its not so long ago that Ireland was a third world country.

BickNarry

Christ, I can't believe the amount of bull**** here. The OP's friend is racist and so are half the posters on this post. Racists should be hung drawn and quatered,no ifs or buts.

''Dont be so judgemental''

hahaha,oh the hypocrisy..........

<snip>

Seems to make perfect sense to me.

Ste.phen

BickNarry wrote: »

Racists should be hung drawn and quatered,no ifs or buts.

Down with intolerance, eh?

LostinKildare

OP, your friend sounds racist, or at least a racism apologist. I don't agree with posters chiding you for being "judgmental" -- I think you have a moral obligation to speak up against prejudice, and it sounds like you handled it graciously.

BumbleB wrote: »

Hitler thought his ideals were noble and they were good in theory,but the way he went about achieving them was not.

Which of Hitler's ideals were good in theory?

Zaph

BumbleB wrote: »

Hitler thought his ideals were noble and they were good in theory,but the way he went about achieving them was not.

LostinKildare wrote: »

Which of Hitler's ideals were good in theory?

This isn't the forum for that kind of discussion. If you want to carry on with it please take it to PM or Humanities.