Putting an intel Quad core in a G4.

alexlyons

I have an old Digital Audio 733mhz Power Mac G4 and would love to put a quad core intel in it as it'd cost about €250, much cheaper than building a PC from scratch. Now, seeing as it's not an Apple authorised processor, it would probably mean going down the Hackintosh route. Does anyone know how easy it would be (I know there would be case mods) in terms of getting the rest of the parts working with it (although I don't think there is much else that would need drivers.. the CD drive wouldn't be used (except for installation) and i can't think of anything else that would need drivers etc. I would probably need a new PSU also come to think of it.

Basically looking for thoughts and ideas on it. Thanks for any input.

Solitaire

No...

Only newer Macs use Intel CPUs (LGA775 for MPro1-3 and LGA1366 for MPro4).

G4 Macs use PowerPC CPUs on the (3Lug, for Digital Audio) AppleZIF "socket". About as incompatible as you can physically get

alexlyons

sorry I should have ben more clear. I would be replacing the whole mobo as well, so it is actually possible and has been done. but my bad for not mentioning the mobo

Solitaire

That makes a lot more sense

I'm still going to waggle my finger reprovingly though :P

Y'see, the later MDD models used custom DDR1 mobos with a slight resemblance to Intel's not-really-standard mBTX format. I think the 733MHz variant used the older Quicksilver case, but even then the internal layout is completely unique to Apple. Even an mATX mobo won't fit without massive modifications :eek:

alexlyons

that's my baby there

Solitaire wrote:

I'm still going to waggle my finger reprovingly though

Well I have a legally purchase version of leopard (and Snow Leopard as it happens, both family packs for all my mac's ) so if I went with Darwin that's fine, and since the EULA says something like you can't install OS X on non apple labeled hardware, technically it seems fine

I'm not really concerned with the mods, I reckon I can just screw it all together (ignorance is bliss ), I seem to have an ability to make things fit together and stay that way! So its more the aspect of once its all in there, can I, and if so how, will I be able to boot it up and use it to all its glory! and don't say hit the power button!

alexlyons

BTW this is what I'm thinking of. Its this or an iPad... Although I swore I'd get an iPad, this seems like a much more solid investment...

Solitaire

alexlyons wrote: »

Well I have a legally purchase version of leopard (and Snow Leopard as it happens, both family packs for all my mac's ) so if I went with Darwin that's fine, and since the EULA says something like you can't install OS X on non apple labeled hardware, technically it seems fine

I didn't mean it that way, I meant you're cutting a rod for your own back trying to swish an mATX build into one of those... have a closer look at the linky.

God knows its tempting - those old PowerPC "cube" cases are gorgeous - but there's so much non-standard weirdness in there. Its like the Sugo SG03, which means most CPU coolers won't fit due to the PSU and the optical drives won't fit due to the position of the RAM modules on the mATX mobo. But its also the fact that its a different platform, so some of the simple things are completely different; you need to remove all the mobo standoffs and Dremel in new ones; you need a new PSU to provide both an exhaust fan and to even have the correct wiring for an ATX-format PC; you need to mod all the frontpanel connections and you even have to Dremel out the I/O shield because the original one is literally welded in; its not a clip-on job like a PC as it was never meant to be modular. Its a lot of work.

Oh, and minor nitpick: LGA775 is a bit dead nowadays. Not that its a bad upgrade kit in any way but for that price you should be close to getting an i3 kit nowadays... What are you going to use this rig for anyway?

alexlyons

Solitaire wrote: »

I didn't mean it that way, I meant you're cutting a rod for your own back trying to swish an mATX build into one of those... have a closer look at the linky.

My bad, I've seen the link before, and I kind of recoiled in horror, but I'm now up for a challenge...

Well the optical drive isn't a biggy tbh, if i really want one I can go external so that should free up a bit of room. the actual fixing of the mobo is probably my biggest problem. Its all very delicate and I'm not sure my "slap it on" method is going to work! shame i couldn't just glue it in there.. would solve a load of problems.

Solitaire wrote: »

What are you going to use this rig for anyway?

very very good question. I'm not 100% sure, encoding videos with handbrake mainly, possible a bit a photo work, mind you that's all nicely set up on the imac... I suppose I just have some weird sort of addiction to having loads of really high end computers, although they have to be mac's, or at least run os x (this would be my first hackintosh)

Not trying to show off, but with a 24" 2.8Ghz imac and a 2.53Ghz macbook pro, maybe it'd never get used... Although the imac is soooo laggy when in aperture & handbrake etc... like it just can't be used when its doing a big handbrake encode.

Solitaire

Are you very limited budget-wise? I'd usually suggest an i3 as a possible alternative for that old Q8300 kit but for ~€60 more (and €60-80 more than the Q8300) an i5-750 is vastly superior to both. Its your fault! You mentioned the "Handbrake" word! :P

alexlyons

Solitaire wrote: »

Are you very limited budget-wise?

Its a recession! Of course i'm limited!

Solitaire wrote: »

I'd usually suggest an i3 as a possible alternative for that old Q8300 kit but for ~€60 more (and €60-80 more than the Q8300) an i5-750 is vastly superior to both. Its your fault! You mentioned the "Handbrake" word! :P

Yes, yes i did, that horrible word, handbrake. It chews up cpu and takes forever, at least on my current machines. If only I could turn them into one super computer... /my wishful thinking


If this is what your on about, then my mind did stray to it. However if I need a new PSU and no doubt there'll be other extra costs along the way, it's looking at hitting €500, which is a lot for a machine that probably wouldn't even be my main one! Maybe looking at finding out why the iMac is so slow would be a better option or put you on the case of the paragraph above

Solitaire

More like €400 for the i5-750, mobo, RAM, PSU and shipping. And that's not including graphics...

I was looking through prices on several websites: everything has gone up again. Not just the RAM and HDDs either - CPUs and mobos are up too! :mad:

The LGA775 kit will end up costing over €300 when you figure in PSU and shipping anyway

Dublin_Gunner

Not forgetting that afaik you'd have to get a modded bios for the board so OSX will install..

With the amount of components you'd have to replace, and the work involved - you may as well just build a new PC - case and everything, and install OSX on it.

Figure around €700 for an i5 build, including all components. IMO it just wouldn't be worth it, especially not considering you have perfectly capable machines there.

Maybe get a ram upgrade for the iMac, or even see if you can replace the CPU in it.

alexlyons

Its all looking very expensive for a machine I don't technically need! I seem to remember this was why I stopped thinking about it before... And I couldn't have a non apple computer, it'd be sacrilege! A G4 hackintosh would be as far as I could stretch!

You're very correct about having perfectly capable machines. I guess they're just not snappy enough. I'm not sure what non-hardware things I could do to bring them back to there snappy selves. Ram upgrade would be 200 quid for an extra 2GB to max it out at 6GB which is a lot of money for a bit of ram tbh. Upgrading the CPU would be unbelievable and I'd spend good money on it,but only if I could get an i5 or i7 quad in it, other wise its just not worth it! Any help with any of that?

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

Upgrading the CPU would be unbelievable and I'd spend good money on it,but only if I could get an i5 or i7 quad in it, other wise its just not worth it! Any help with any of that?

Wouldn't try it with the iMac.The entire screen has to come off to get to the bits underneath.To add to that,I doubt the iMac would have the cooling for an i5/7 unless it was designed to originally take the aforementioned processors.(like the newest models)

Also,I'm not sure about the ones out now,but my model iMac has a laptop socket/processor (Socket 478 mPGA (IIRC))

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

Wouldn't try it with the iMac.The entire screen has to come off to get to the bits underneath.To add to that,I doubt the iMac would have the cooling for an i5/7 unless it was designed to originally take the aforementioned processors.(like the newest models)

Also,I'm not sure about the ones out now,but my model iMac has a laptop socket/processor (Socket 478 mPGA (IIRC))

Not to worried about taking it apart, I've done a fair bit of disassembly in my time so I reckon it'd be fine. It does get pretty hot already tbh, so that could be a slight issue.. I'd love to know how easy it is to actually do! If you look online everyone is just saying don't do it because it's to hard. Maybe it's to hard for them, but it has to be technically possible!

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

Not to worried about taking it apart, I've done a fair bit of disassembly in my time so I reckon it'd be fine. It does get pretty hot already tbh, so that could be a slight issue.. I'd love to know how easy it is to actually do! If you look online everyone is just saying don't do it because it's to hard. Maybe it's to hard for them, but it has to be technically possible!

Oh it is,I believe taking the screen off is that hardest part,after that,its just taking off plastic covers and the like

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

Oh it is,I believe taking the screen off is that hardest part,after that,its just taking off plastic covers and the like

I've actually taken an imac apart right down to the bare bones and put it back together, its hard but not nearly as hard as some laptops I've looked at (they can get seriously confusing at times!) It was broken though, so I'd want to be a bit more careful with a fully working one.

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

I've actually taken an imac apart right down to the bare bones and put it back together, its hard but not nearly as hard as some laptops I've looked at (they can get seriously confusing at times!) It was broken though, so I'd want to be a bit more careful with a fully working one.

Well,provided you've got the ability to take it apart,the only issue would be the heat output of a better chip.I'm just after thinking,will the iMac EMI act up if you swap the chip out

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

Well,provided you've got the ability to take it apart,the only issue would be the heat output of a better chip.I'm just after thinking,will the iMac EMI act up if you swap the chip out

ye i reckon it would and the heat issue could get horrible. Forgive my ignorance, I've never done any processor work, hence the attraction to a new mobo with one already one it, would I be able to just swap the chip on the mobo, provided the heat and EFI issues were solved? I have literally zero knowledge of modifying processors so treat me as an idiot with this!

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

ye i reckon it would and the heat issue could get horrible. Forgive my ignorance, I've never done any processor work, hence the attraction to a new mobo with one already one it, would I be able to just swap the chip on the mobo, provided the heat and EFI issues were solved? I have literally zero knowledge of modifying processors so treat me as an idiot with this!

What screen size are your current iMac's ?

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

What screen size are your current iMac's ?

Only got the one, I took apart a 20" Alu but I've got the 24" older gen one mounted in front of me (got it december 14 months ago)

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

Only got the one, I took apart a 20" Alu but I've got the 24" older gen one mounted in front of me (got it december 14 months ago)

I doubt i5 will work because the ones that use that processor are 21.5'' and 27'',I presume the motherboard will be a different physical size unfortunately.

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

I doubt i5 will work because the ones that use that processor are 21.5'' and 27'',I presume the motherboard will be a different physical size unfortunately.

ye but could i swap out just the processors? leaving the same mobo?

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

ye but could i swap out just the processors? leaving the same mobo?

Different socket.The i Series are going to be 1156 or 1366.The older models use mPGA478.

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

Different socket.The i Series are going to be 1156 or 1366.The older models use mPGA478.

well you just burst my bubble :mad::p

so if i did want to just swap the processors, all other issues aside (heat efi etc) whats the best chip that would work?

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

well you just burst my bubble :mad::p

so if i did want to just swap the processors, all other issues aside (heat efi etc) whats the best chip that would work?

On mPGA478,probably one of the faster C2D's (3.06 GHz one if you can find it) although you will probably end up paying a stupid amount for a new chip

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

On mPGA478,probably one of the faster C2D's (3.06 GHz one if you can find it) although you will probably end up paying a stupid amount for a new chip

ye thats an increase of about 9.3% and I wouldn't even see a 9% increase in performance during use. Looking like a non-runner to be honest!

I really appreciate all the help, from all parties, I've learnt a lot of the past day or so!

On a parting note, if anyone has any tips in relation to the current computers and setup feel free to say!

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

ye thats an increase of about 9.3% and I wouldn't even see a 9% increase in performance during use. Looking like a non-runner to be honest!

I really appreciate all the help, from all parties, I've learnt a lot of the past day or so!

On a parting note, if anyone has any tips in relation to the current computers and setup feel free to say!

Are they all running Snow Leopard,thats fully 64Bit so you should see some increase in performance and at €30,it wont break the bank either

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

Are they all running Snow Leopard,thats fully 64Bit so you should see some increase in performance and at €30,it wont break the bank either

ye they're all SL (obviously not the G4, thats on tiger and while not technically able to run leopard, it actually can, but isn't at the minute) since day 1 or release. Activity monitor is showing quite a few 64 bit apps, I take it that means its in full 64 bit mode? haven't even done any of this holding 6 and 4 at startup...

Deano12345

I presume the apps that can use will have been patched to support it

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

I presume the apps that can use will have been patched to support it

not making sense of that?? all apps are up to date if thats what your asking?

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

not making sense of that?? all apps are up to date if thats what your asking?

I was just commenting on the fact that the Activity monitor is showing them,so yeah...they would be 64bit (or at least those particular apps would be)

alexlyons

Deano12345 wrote: »

I was just commenting on the fact that the Activity monitor is showing them,so yeah...they would be 64bit (or at least those particular apps would be)

ah got you. cheers for all the help

Deano12345

alexlyons wrote: »

ah got you. cheers for all the help

No bother