New build - component advice

Fanny Cradock

After many years of faithful service my AMD 3200+, 2GB, 7600GT beast is looking a little tired. I've decided that it might be a good idea to start afresh. The problem is that I'm well out of the loop in terms of technology, and I need a bit of advice (quite a lot) with regards to the best components for my price range.

I'm predominately looking for a solid gaming rig (low to medium end) and I am also interested in getting it hooked up on wireless (I know almost nothing about this). I have a working figure of 700 Eur in mind for everything bar P&P and the CRT and OS which I'll probably hold on to.

So any ideas on what would be my best bang for buck system - from case to CPU and everything in between? I've had a look on Komplett but it's been so long since I last dipped my toe into system builds that I feel a little lost

Solitaire

What size and resolution is that CRT? Bear in mind you can get even 22" LCD monitors for €120-150... and many at the higher end of that budget will be Full HD 1080p panels. On the other hand if you're CRT can only manage a lowish optimum/maximum resolution there's little point getting a high-end graphics card!

And what do you want to do with wireless? If you already have a wireless router and you just want the new build to have wireless capability so you can link to the router wirelessly its just a cheap little extra component we're talking about. If on the other hand we're talking about something more esoteric tell us now.

Fanny Cradock

Thanks for the response.

It's a 21" CRT with a max resolution of 1152 * 864. I would think that if this is to be a budget/ midrange system, then a fancy graphics card would be ruled out.

Nothing esoteric with regards to wireless. I just want wireless capability. Given that I haven't got a router, I guess that is another thing on the list!

Fanny Cradock

So I've been doing a little bit of research.

With regards to CPU, RAM and MoBo, I've been looking at this bundle deal on Komplett for €230.

*2 Duo E8400Dual Core, 3.0Ghz, Socket 775, 6MB, 65W, 1333Mhz
*Asus P5KPL-AM SE, G31, Socket-775, DDR2,m-ATX, LAN, SATAII, PCI-Ex16
*Corsair Value S. PC6400 DDR2 2GB CL5256Meg x 64, CL5-5-5-18, 800MHz, 240-pin

From what I can gather it seems quite high end. Perhaps there is a better budget option leaving more for other components?

In terms of graphics cards, I was looking at a GeForce 9800GT 1GB for €100.

Maybe this isn't the best option.

I also have to think about HDD's and a case. Any advice?

Anti

Something like the antec 300 will be a good solid and cheap case for you, as for hdds i really cant reccomend the Samsung F1/F3 series drives enough.

massy086

scrap your bundle 775 is old tec try this nice new shinny tec http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=579386

Anti

Massy does raise a good point. The i3 will run rings around the 775 kit. It is a little more expensive, but from what i can see you dont like to upgrade too often so the i3 kit should give you a bit more of a shelf life for your current hardware.

Fanny Cradock

Interesting! I have concerns though.

I had a look at a comparison website and the i3-530 comes close to the bottom of the pile. Also the problem with the bundle is that with its integrated graphics controller it seems to be geared towards those not interested in heavy gaming.

Anti

You can add on any pci-e graphics card you want too. The intergrated graphics is just for very basic stuff really. GRanted the I3 is not the fastest chip in the world. but it will be faster then a C2D 775 cpu.

Fanny Cradock

Really?

The Intel Core 2 Duo E8400, 4.25GHz (the bundle is 3.0GHz - not sure what difference this makes) preforms considerably better than the i3-530 2,93GHz.

But both of you still think the i3-530 is the better option?

massy086

well if u look at ur list the e8400 scored 19 minimum and 38 average the 13 scored 18min 42 average the i3 also overclocks very high they have been pushed to 5ghz but 4ghz is a every day clock and its on the p55 platform witch is the new,st tec at the moment im on it with the i5 and love it .you wont be sorry op

Fanny Cradock

OK, so thanks Anti and massy something is coming together.

CPU: i3-530 2,93GHz
MoBo: MSI H55M-E33
RAM: Crucial DDR3 1066MHz 2GB (Bundle deal)
HDD: Samsung F3 500GB (I hope this is the correct one)
Case: Antec 300. As I can't find it stocked on Komplet, I might have to find an alternative case because I want pick up the goods myself and hopefully save a little cash.

So if the above is good that leaves the graphics card (I've suggested the GeForce 9800GT 1GB) and sorting out a router and wireless capability.

Solitaire

Put it like this: the i3-530 is an E8400 with bells on. Its just as fast, can OC even more ludicrously fast, costs roughly the same (should be cheaper but the LGA1156 mobos are pricier) but has the advantage of HyperThreading support to make short work of some newer games and a whole load of non-gaming applications. And you can just yank it out and drop in the next-gen version of the current i5-750 when the time comes

As for that benchmark...
1. The only other mid-range CPU in that roundup was the AMD X4-630; everything else was either old or current high-end chips, some of which are nearly twice the price of the i3.
2. Crysis is a bad example as its horribly implemented and hates HT (and pretty much everything else except raw POWAH!! ) so the i3 was going to get a cack result there anyway. Check out the X3 bench for a much more realistic result.
3. The results are ranked by Minimum FPS, which is jack-****-stupid :mad: Any new tech might have a clash with drivers, the game or other hardware in the build and return an anomalously low Min FPS, thus sliding down the chart for no good reason and certainly no reason that carries over to real-world performance. Even crippled by HT-Hate the i3 has better Average FPS in Crysis than its competitors old or new at stock clocks. The higher E8400 result is of course due to the massive 4.2GHz OC, and even then it gets beat out by the i3 running at "only" 3.5GHz in Average FPS! :P

Moral of the story? Until reviewers start using a statistical standard-deviation of low-FPS performance captured during a bench you're simply best off ignoring any Min FPS results; they're just single numerical points that might not even have a chance to register on the human eye in real life. I'd be more worried about the CPU that gives 25fps for half the bench than the one that gives 24fps for just a single second, but at the moment reviewers aren't telling you about that are they? :rolleyes:

The Oggmonster

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

OK, so thanks Anti and massy something is coming together.

CPU: i3-530 2,93GHz
MoBo: MSI H55M-E33
RAM: Crucial DDR3 1066MHz 2GB (Bundle deal)
HDD: Samsung F3 500GB (I hope this is the correct one)
Case: Antec 300. As I can't find it stocked on Komplet, I might have to find an alternative case because I want pick up the goods myself and hopefully save a little cash.

So if the above is good that leaves the graphics card (I've suggested the GeForce 9800GT 1GB) and sorting out a router and wireless capability.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=354717

Fanny Cradock

Point well made! i3-530 it is.

I've been looking at alternative cards to the 9800, and I've come up with either the Radeon HD 4850 1GB (€120) or Radeon HD 4870 1GB (a little pricey at €141).

Solitaire

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I've suggested the GeForce 9800GT 1GB

Why on earth a 9800GT?! Even with shipping you could get a HD4770 from Pixmania for less money and it would beat the 9800GT with hammers! :eek:

Fanny Cradock

The Oggmonster wrote: »

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=354717

Brilliant! So that would be three hundred as opposed to 300! :pac:

Fanny Cradock

Solitaire wrote: »

Why on earth a 9800GT?! Even with shipping you could get a HD4770 from Pixmania for less money and it would beat the 9800GT with hammers! :eek:

When I last looked the 8800GT was much coveted! I guess things have moved on since then.

Anyway, I see that the Radeon HD 4850 1GB is the same price on pixmania as the 9800 on Komplett!

Solitaire

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Brilliant! So that would be three hundred as opposed to 300! :pac:

Sparta'd :P

Fanny Cradock

Looks like I'll need a PSU for that case as well

Burgo

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=339898
something like this maybe?

Fanny Cradock

I appreciate the help so far.

Upgrade Kit Intel - Core i3 530 - €245
Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB - €45
Antec Three Hundred Midi Tower Black - €48
Corsair VX 550W PSU or Corsair VX 450W PSU - €76 or €62
Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 or Radeon HD 4850 1GB GDDR3 - €141 or €120

Total build (higher end products) is €556.

Obviously I'll have to see if I can get these parts cheaper anywhere else, but from what I gather you can collect stuff from Komplett within having to pay P&P.

If you guys think that the above system looks ok (suggestions still appreciated!) then all that s left are the router and the Wireless PCI/ USB adapter (assuming those latter two are the best options).

Solitaire

Burgo wrote: »

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=339898
something like this maybe?

Nah, more like this

Solitaire

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 or Radeon HD 4850 1GB GDDR3 - €141 or €120

No, they're old, hungry and overpriced. Get a HD4770 from Pixmania (cheaper than that 9800GT you linked :P) unless you really intend on getting a shiny new 1080p monitor, in which case look for a HD5770 or at least a HD5750 (and for a 1080p monitor you need the 1GB versions).

As for wifi adaptor look for something like this for external use or this PCI card for an internal adaptor. As for a transmitter you need something like this if you have regular wireless or phone broadband or one of these modems if you have cable/all-in-one type ADSL.

Fanny Cradock

Solitaire wrote: »

No, they're old, hungry and overpriced. Get a HD4770 from Pixmania (cheaper than that 9800GT you linked :P) unless you really intend on getting a shiny new 1080p monitor, in which case look for a HD5770 or at least a HD5750 (and for a 1080p monitor you need the 1GB versions).

Well, if I can get everything (router included) €750 then why not get the fancy card and monitor! I'd love to get rid of the CRT.

Fanny Cradock

OK, so a revised list!

LG W2261VP-PF 22" wide TFT Screen - €162
Intel Core i3-530 - €90 (Pixmania)
MSI H55M-E33, H55 - €81
Crucial DDR3 1066MHz 2GB, CL7 - €54 ( I assume this is ok?)
Pixmania Radeon HD 5770 - €129
Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB - €46
Antec Three Hundred Midi Tower Black - €48
Corsair CX 400W PSU - €46
TP-LINK TL-WR941ND Wireless-N router - €36
TP-LINK TL-WN951N Wireless-N PCI - 24

€731 inc P&P for the Pixmania stuff. I'll have to confirm that it is free to collect from Komplett.

Solitaire

Slow RAM. Plus 2GB is a bit slim nowadays, although a lot of people are being forced down this route - 4GB of cheap 1333MHz DDR3 will set you back at least €85

No expert but what about this monitor? Just a bit cheaper for a similar featurelist.

Also if the Antec 300 isn't floating your boat Pix has both the Antec 200 and the NZXT Gamma in the ~€40 range. The Gamma is arguably the nicest-looking and most expandable of the three but doesn't come with either of its top 140mm fans. The 300 is the worst for cable management, closely followed by the 200. Although the 200 is quite feature-rich it lacks a bottom grille for the PSU and the aesthetics aren't for everyone.

Fanny Cradock

Some excellent advice there!

I've included your monitor suggestion (customers give it good reviews on Amazon), gone for the slightly cheaper NZXT Gamma (I'm unsure how big a draw back not having the top 140mm fans would be) and I've gone for 3GB of faster RAM.

All combined this works out at a total of €701. (I save €15 by visiting this site and getting a discount code for spending over €400.)

massy086

new build for u maybe but all from the 1 place bar the rotier and wifi that ram you picked wont work its muck

Solitaire

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm unsure how big a draw back not having the top 140mm fans would be

You can add one or two 120/140mm fans up top when you want, they're just not included as standard. The cable management, PSU "floor filter" and the nice odd gemetric front bezel are, though Note that 140mm fans are expensive this side of Germany - you'd be paying €10-13 a pop instead of €5-7 on a certain other site :rolleyes: And while the cheapest 120mm fans on Komplett are over €7 at least they're quiet Zalmans with silicone mounts included! Too many fans are still being supplied with dodgy screws that are worse than useless. And getting the silicone mounts that Zalman include for free are €4+ per fan here! They're only €1 a pop on HWVS!

In any case if you're still collecting stuff from Komplett free via the pick-up-point (and you're probably picking up the wifi gear there anyway) then make sure to pick up the Samsung F3 500GB HDD there (a steal at €45!). Also, if you want a full-size ATX mobo to go with the case the Asus P7H55 is only €91 there. Of course if you want to put up with an mATX model check out the MSI H55M-E33 which is under €80 on Pix. And there's cheaper RAM on Pix too - the PNY-branded generic DDR3-10600 modules are currently €42 a pop, so getting a pair will give you 4GB of native 1333MHz (i.e. runs at 1.5V unlike the OCZ!) for under €85

Fanny Cradock

It coming together now, guys. €721 for this lot:




Just a few more questions and I hope I'll be done.

1) What are the differences between an ATX mobo and a mATX? I've gone for the Asus P7H55, but if I can save €11 on the mATX without impacting performance then I'd go with it.

2) Really basic question, but I'm a little confused about what type of internet connection I have - regular wireless or phone broadband or cable/all-in-one type ADSL. I guess I could just phone NTL about this :rolleyes:

3) With regards to the wireless PCI card, will this fit in the case with either the ATX and mATX mobos?

4) Is there any performance difference between a PCI card and a USB adapter? If not I might go with this the slightly cheaper option.

Solitaire

1) Historically there used to be big performance differences between ATX and mATX with the latter having very little OC capability. Over the last few years this trend has changed completely and there is little difference in performance between form factors with LGA1156 (even the soon-to-be-released mITX teenies look extremely robust!). This doesn't change the fact that mATX is physically smaller; very good for sticking in small places but limited in expandability as a result with fewer PCI/PCIe/SATA ports and USB/fan headers for sticking things. With a full ATX case you get all the limitations with none of the advantages.

2) Feck. The fact you said "NTL" suggests bad things. You might have a wireless or standard phone-line ADSL but odds are its cable which means check with your ISP first. Odds are you'll be stuck buying either a pricey cable modem or even a super-pricey proprietary unit from NTL themselves :mad: Only option is to do the research on this one...

3) No problem with an ATX mobo. With mATX it varies; IIRC the MSI H55M-E33 should be fine (PCI slot at the bottom) but that's your only PCI slot gobbled up, so no more PCI cards for you! :P A few mATX mobos might come with two PCI slots but most nowadays will come with 2 PCIex1 or even PCIex16 slots and the single PCI slot may get blocked by a graphics card (the cooler usually takes the next slot down as well) or on some mobos with dual PCIex16 slots there may be no PCI slots

4) Depends. With a PCI card its all nice and tucked away, and in my own experience I've had much better luck with PCI cards over USB dongles but there's good reviews for the USB version so if you're adamant about an mATX mobo its probably a slightly better choice.