Another 'head shop' damaged by fire

1968

A building housing a "head shop" in Dublin has been damaged by fire. The fire broke out shortly before 9.30pm last night at the premises on North Frederick Street in Dublin city centre.


The Happy Hippie "head shop" was damaged in the incident but there are not reports of any injuries. Last Friday a fire gutted a second "head shop" on Capel Street.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0217/breaking4.html


Pissed off street dealers seem to be the main suspects?

Degsy

Saw that this morning..its more than damaged..the place is pretty much gutted..would've been a few freebies knocking around before the cops secured the place i reckon!

I dont think its dealers..i think there's a sort of "concerned parents against legal drugs/down with this sort of thing" group.
Dealers of proper drugs have nothing to fear from the rubbish those shops sell.

Gavin "shels"

Said on the radio this morning, that the fire was started with petrol on the shop floor, so either the lad working there happened to park his leaking car in the shop or arson.

cosmic

Looks like the vigilantes have struck again

Riamfada

Bit of a Hot Fuzz neighborhood watch thing going on have we?

"First we will torch the head shop and then go over to Mrs O'Reillys for tea and corrie"

stovelid

Insurance job on the stock in anticipation of close downs perhaps?

Degsy

stovelid wrote: »

Insurance job on the stock in anticipation of close downs perhaps?

Its certainly possible but to use petrol like that is a bit disingenous.

Mona Lott

You'd wanna be off your head to go into that business these days :P

Degsy

I bought a few heads before they burnt down,

Rb

It'll be interesting to watch this unfold. First one is burned to the ground and 500k is found sitting there, now this one only days later is burned down.

Stupid behaviour regardless of whoever did it and will only push recreational drug users towards illegal substances, which is obviously beneficial to dealers so I wouldn't be surprised to see a connection with one/many turn up in the coming weeks.

I suppose it is a bit of a preview of what might come should some substances be legalised or decriminalised here. Quite worrying to see progress being stood in the way of so violently.

Diabhal_Glas

Degsy wrote: »

Saw that this morning..its more than damaged..the place is pretty much gutted..would've been a few freebies knocking around before the cops secured the place i reckon!

I dont think its dealers..i think there's a sort of "concerned parents against legal drugs/down with this sort of thing" group.
Dealers of proper drugs have nothing to fear from the rubbish those shops sell.

I reckon the street dealers have a LOT to be concerned about, these guys can get a hit for 8 hours off of the stuff from these shops sell

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/2429/57/

zero86r

stovelid wrote: »

Insurance job on the stock in anticipation of close downs perhaps?

That's the first thing i thought of when i heard about the first fire and now this? It stinks

robz18

I wonder which one is going to be next

RandolphEsq

There was a thread in P.I. recently about an owner of a city centre business being worried. Everyone in the thread assumed it was a head shop. I wonder if it was the guy who posted the thread

Degsy

Diabhal_Glas wrote: »

I reckon the street dealers have a LOT to be concerned about, these guys can get a hit for 8 hours off of the stuff from these shops sell

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/2429/57/

Ever take any of that stuff??
A hangover that lasts for days,paranoia and a severe case of micky-shrivelling..i suppose thats the same as cocaine really:o

Meeja Ireland

Degsy wrote: »

Ever take any of that stuff??
A hangover that lasts for days,paranoia and a severe case of micky-shrivelling..i suppose thats the same as cocaine really:o

I talked to someone yesterday who had first-hand experience of head-shop wares. He told tales for frothing at the mouth and trying to climb into cupboards. Seriously, it sounded quite nuts - but then a lot of the standard drug behaviour sounds pretty nuts too.

Thank god there is no drug in beer, or I would have stopped nine cans ago.

electrogrimey

1968 wrote: »

Pissed off street dealers seem to be the main suspects?

I would have to agree, they're the ones losing the most from the Head Shops, and it seems especially likely considering the two areas the shops were toched in.

Degsy wrote: »

Dealers of proper drugs have nothing to fear from the rubbish those shops sell.

Dealers have a huge about to fear from legal mephedrone. It's far more potent, inexpensive, and in some ways safer than the shit dealers are trying to pawn off as cocaine, which in most cases is mostly BZP and caffeine, BZP being the 'legal' drug that was criminalised only a few months ago.

stovelid wrote: »

Insurance job on the stock in anticipation of close downs perhaps?

I doubt two shops would burn themselves down in a week for insurance, especially if one had 500k of cash lying in the back.

IMHO it's between angry dealers, or crazy (possibly religious) radicals.

RandolphEsq

Head shop owners have said that it is drug dealers who have threatened their businesses. Can't remember which paper it was in last week

lee_

This whole mess reminds me of that one word.....

Karma

panda100

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Head shop owners have said that it is drug dealers who have threatened their businesses. Can't remember which paper it was in last week

I don't understand this. Head shops have been operating for years,why all of a sudden are they a major threat to drug dealers?

I reckon its an insurance job myself.

stovelid

electrogrimey wrote: »

especially if one had 500k of cash lying in the back.

Apologies.

I missed that part in the article.

panda100 wrote: »

I don't understand this. Head shops have been operating for years,why all of a sudden are they a major threat to drug dealers?

The media have been really running with the campaign against them. Probably makes it seem like an epidemic and consequently overstates the turnover. I assume that the late opening of the shops (is this a new thing?) too. Also people may be looking for cheaper substances with unemployment and wage cuts.

Rb

lee_ wrote: »

This whole mess reminds me of that one word.....

Karma

Um, no.

lord lucan

stovelid wrote: »

Also people may be looking for cheaper substances with unemployment and wage cuts.

This to me is the crux of the matter. When the Celtic Tiger was roaring away the likes of Cocaine seemed almost as available as cigarettes. I have often walked in on lads snorting the stuff,and not in night clubs in town but in pubs in the 'burbs. It was relatively cheap and freely available. Now that the things aren't so rosy these guys are going after hits that are cheaper which in turn deprives the dealers of business. Imo it's an orchestrated campaign against these businesses by various dealers and their gangland backers.

FensterDJ

panda100 wrote: »

I don't understand this. Head shops have been operating for years,why all of a sudden are they a major threat to drug dealers?

I reckon its an insurance job myself.

I suppose it's the "quality" of the product they are selling, the highes from the legal drugs are now better than the illegal ones, the quality of escasty in Ireland and Europe in general has been terrible for the last two years, particularly since BZP was banned and all the surplus stock entered the blackmarket.

the "cocaine" in Ireland is so cut and poor quality, I'm amazed people ever took it, never mind paid 100 quid for a wrap of it.

So with Mephadrene oand the other products ffering a cheaper, consistent "quality" high (you can debate side effects til the cows come home - people are enjoying it) at a reasonable price in a convienent location, you can see why it's popular

A year ago there was probably5/6 headshops, mostly in the city centre, now there are probably about 30, including suburbs, and also in every major town in the country.

So the idea of Head shops have been around for years, but the reality they've exploded in the last 6 months or so

electrogrimey

FensterDJ wrote: »

I suppose it's the "quality" of the product they are selling, the highes from the legal drugs are now better than the illegal ones, the quality of escasty in Ireland and Europe in general has been terrible for the last two years, particularly since BZP was banned and all the surplus stock entered the blackmarket.

the "cocaine" in Ireland is so cut and poor quality, I'm amazed people ever took it, never mind paid 100 quid for a wrap of it.

So with Mephadrene oand the other products ffering a cheaper, consistent "quality" high (you can debate side effects til the cows come home - people are enjoying it) at a reasonable price in a convienent location, you can see why it's popular

A year ago there was probably5/6 headshops, mostly in the city centre, now there are probably about 30, including suburbs, and also in every major town in the country.

So the idea of Head shops have been around for years, but the reality they've exploded in the last 6 months or so

QFT, great post. Add in the recent media explosion of legal highs recently, with it being on Prime Time recently, and in the papers every other day. They kind of stayed under the popular radar for a while, but recently they've been pushed into the limelight, which would trigger this kind of reaction from paramilitary groups.

Thinking about it now, I don't see why dealers would burn them down, if they're set to be banned within 3 months anyway...Maybe the dealers are using arson as a catalyst to get them banned quicker, so the headshop customers will go back to cocaine, which they will now cut with mephedrone.

FensterDJ

I can see the reason for the public outcry though, they are powerful drugs, esp to younger unaccustomed users, and theirs no regulations,

A head shop owner might turn away under 18s on a busy day, but on a slow tuesday, they might be happy of the business from a 15/16 year old, it's only their own code that says it's over 18s only, there is no legal requirement

So Parents around the country are crapping themselves, and I can see their point.


How will a ban be brought into place on headshops?

the government can ban a particular drug, BZP or Meph or whatever, But all that needs to done is tweak the formula and you have another legal, or perhaps better to say not illegal subsitute.

The required legislation to bring in a bill that will ban the various types of business that Headshops carry out would take 3 years or more, not 3 months.

when the minister was interviewed on Prime time recently, he didn't seen to have an strategy in place to deal with the sitiuation

Degsy

FFS..legalise headshops that sell REAL drugs..the government can tax the bejaysus out of it,assure the quality and purity and take business away from organised criminals.

electrogrimey

But since then, they've declared that they're putting legislation into place to have them banned within 3 months, must be some sort of blanket ban.

As for the public outcry, a friend of mine made this point in a letter to the Irish Times: At least 2 lives have been ruined, probably more, by people burning down their legitimate, legal businesses, which is a lot more ruined lives than the consumption of these drugs have caused (in Ireland).

Degsy

http://www.cactus-candy.co.uk/epages/es132825.sf/en_GB/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=8422413

5 grams for 50 quid??
If its even half as potent as street coke at that price dealers may well be the ones causing the fires.

stovelid

Degsy wrote: »

at that price dealers may well be the ones causing the fires.

Somebody told me that the fire in Parnell Street was caused by two people who entered in view of the staff and start dousing the place in petrol.

If this is true, it certainly sounds more like strong-arms/dealers rather than an anti-drug crowd?

carlmango11

I don't think the type of people who are concerned about the head shops (ie: parents, government etc.) are the type of people to burn down places.

I can't see someone who's the type of person who would burn down a shop to also be the concerned citizen.

I reckon it was the drug dealers

FensterDJ

The metro today said, 2 guys just walked in when the shop was open, doused it, lit it and legged it, there was 2 staff in the shop too, at about 9.30, balls of steel.


I'm not lawyer but I can't see the government getting a ban together in 3 months, it would take 3 months to get a definition of what a head shop actually is.

Also, and this is a small point, none of the products are sold for human comsumption, they are all branded as bath salts, or incense or plant growth inhibitors -why anyone would want that i don't know- or whatever. so what exactly would they be banning?

you can't ban all bath salts, radox would not be happy, so you'd have to ban all bath salts with the chemical formula wxyz, so they drug co pharmcists just bring out formula xwyz.

I can't see it happening anytime soon.

tfak85

whe i was cycling home up camden street/wexford street this evening i noticed the sign for the new head shop there is down, now it just says "camden street ---- shop"... the sign was up last week... hard to know if it's related to these incidences, i honestly have no clue as to whether it's the same company...

electrogrimey

FensterDJ wrote: »

The metro today said, 2 guys just walked in when the shop was open, doused it, lit it and legged it, there was 2 staff in the shop too, at about 9.30, balls of steel.

9.30 am or pm?

Can't really see any motive for paramilitaries, unless it's just good old fashioned Catholic intolerance, so my vote goes to the dealers. Maybe we should add a poll to this, it could be like X-Factor. For arsonists.

MementoMori

electrogrimey wrote: »

9.30 am or pm?

Can't really see any motive for paramilitaries, unless it's just good old fashioned Catholic intolerance, so my vote goes to the dealers. Maybe we should add a poll to this, it could be like X-Factor. For arsonists.

Motive for paramilitaries is cutting into their drug profits.
First attack sounded like a pipe bomb, second like standard criminal intimidation. Would be kinda shocked if it wasn't paramilitaries/drug dealers.

electrogrimey

MementoMori wrote: »

Motive for paramilitaries is cutting into their drug profits.
First attack sounded like a pipe bomb, second like standard criminal intimidation. Would be kinda shocked if it wasn't paramilitaries/drug dealers.

I suppose there'd be quite a big overlap between the two, especially at the top.

AnonoBoy

FensterDJ wrote: »

Also, and this is a small point, none of the products are sold for human comsumption, they are all branded as bath salts, or incense or plant growth inhibitors -why anyone would want that i don't know- or whatever. so what exactly would they be banning?
.

They'll bring in a law blanket banning the products in some manner similar to the way the UK have.

DepecheHead101

FensterDJ wrote: »

The metro today said, 2 guys just walked in when the shop was open, doused it, lit it and legged it, there was 2 staff in the shop too, at about 9.30, balls of steel.


I'm not lawyer but I can't see the government getting a ban together in 3 months, it would take 3 months to get a definition of what a head shop actually is.

Also, and this is a small point, none of the products are sold for human comsumption, they are all branded as bath salts, or incense or plant growth inhibitors -why anyone would want that i don't know- or whatever. so what exactly would they be banning?

you can't ban all bath salts, radox would not be happy, so you'd have to ban all bath salts with the chemical formula wxyz, so they drug co pharmcists just bring out formula xwyz.

I can't see it happening anytime soon.

They aren't banning the shops themselves nor are they banning what the products are marketed as. They are banning the active chemical compounds in these products. So in the case of the smoking blends, synthetic cannabanoids will get a blanket ban as opposed to - say - incense sticks and candles.

FensterDJ

electrogrimey wrote: »

9.30 am or pm?

Can't really see any motive for paramilitaries, unless it's just good old fashioned Catholic intolerance, so my vote goes to the dealers. Maybe we should add a poll to this, it could be like X-Factor. For arsonists.

pm

i'm going with the dealers theory, although Nirvana, the first shop to be burned, is a wholesaler for a lot of the other shops, so maybe it's more of a personal vendetta against him, so maybe he was approached to pay protection or to give up a cut of the profits or something, and things got nasty