Life Outside of Big 4

mr_edge_to_you

Going on a bit of a rant here. I just can't see the fascination with people wanting to get a job with a big 4 firm. I have never worked in practice but I know many who have (I'm a CIMA head). I would like to think that I have done reasonably well. I have gained great experience so far in the places I've worked.

People seem to think that you need this big 4 experience to succeed in the world of accounting. There is plenty of ways to get great experience.

zillion

Hi,

I'm new to this site, would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions about the CIMA route?

I'm doing a masters in corp finance and didn't get anywhere with my big 4 applications which doesn't really bother me as I don't consider them the be all and end all. I have applied to a few graduate programmes which offer you the chance to pursue the CIMA qualification. I was just wondering what your overall experience of CIMA has been and how you went about completing the qualification, i.e. was it through a grad prog or any other means?

Thanks!

mr_edge_to_you

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Going on a bit of a rant here. I just can't see the fascination with people wanting to get a job with a big 4 firm. I have never worked in practice but I know many who have (I'm a CIMA head). I would like to think that I have done reasonably well. I have gained great experience so far in the places I've worked.

People seem to think that you need this big 4 experience to succeed in the world of accounting. There is plenty of ways to get great experience.

they're not the be all and end all. it's just a brand (much in the same way that bcomm is at an earlier stage of the career process) and makes it easier for employers to make decisions about who to call for interview - i.e. if someone has big 4 experience then they have a rough idea of what they'll have done etc. there is no point in getting bitter about it - you'll just have to sell your experience. people are not gonig to be hired just because they are big 4 - they still have to do an interview.

mr_edge_to_you

Sorry, what i mean is i see people here starting off in college and finishing college and a lot of them seem preoccupied with getting a contract with the big 4. Accountancy is a bigger world than that! I've no worries about it whatsoever, i have fantastic experience as an assistant accountant.

lazlo

who are the Big 4?

MonsterMob

the reason is because of reputation. go to any of the recruitment sites and you will see a lot of companys who are seeking new accountants specifying that they want only applicants who have come from the big 4

kippy

lazlo wrote: »

who are the Big 4?

Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, however that may change in the next couple of seasons........

Seriously,
They are the biggest accounting firms in the state I believe. KPMG are one.

viconia

In the world

Starting with highest world revenue and going down: -

PricewaterhouseCoopers
Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu
Ernst & Young
KPMG

In Ireland the order would be: -

PWC
KPMG
Deloitte
E&Y

censuspro

Perception is reality unfortunately.

zillion

zillion wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to this site, would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions about the CIMA route?

I'm doing a masters in corp finance and didn't get anywhere with my big 4 applications which doesn't really bother me as I don't consider them the be all and end all. I have applied to a few graduate programmes which offer you the chance to pursue the CIMA qualification. I was just wondering what your overall experience of CIMA has been and how you went about completing the qualification, i.e. was it through a grad prog or any other means?

Thanks!

I did CIMA via a grad program in the UK.

The support was good - classes paid for, some time off. It did eat into my holidays though and you don't get anywhere near the same time off as an ACA.

I and my peers got to do a lot of travel as there were opportunities all over Europe (maternity leave cover, people being rotated, reorganisations).

Many stayed in the company and moved up the ranks or abroad, others left.
One of the 90s grads was on the cover of the CIMA magazine a couple of years ago.

I would look for a good rotation program - there is no point being in the same job for over a year - you won't be learning much.

One of my peers went into bid finance - probably as close as you would get to a corporate finance role in this company.

It is a pity we are in administration and melt down.

zillion

zillion wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to this site, would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions about the CIMA route?

I'm doing a masters in corp finance and didn't get anywhere with my big 4 applications which doesn't really bother me as I don't consider them the be all and end all. I have applied to a few graduate programmes which offer you the chance to pursue the CIMA qualification. I was just wondering what your overall experience of CIMA has been and how you went about completing the qualification, i.e. was it through a grad prog or any other means?

Thanks!

My experience - used to work in a different area but didn't want to do it long-term so started CIMA. Did CIMA over a 2 year period. Did the exams with just revision w/ends from BPP, as didn't have time for courses as only got study leave for the exam day. Had a bcomm background and found the exams ok - had to repeat one. Then transferred job to being a mgr in corporate finance in big 4. There for a couple of years. Fees collapsed - redundancy. Now work in corporate finance in a large private company. Hope to work in private equity eventually. CIMA is good if you don't ever see yourself auditting as you can't with the qualification. It's more of a general curriculum than the ACA, ACCA which are slightly more accounting focussed although there's not a lot of difference these days.

BTH

The problem is that potential employers see big 4 experience and immediately disregard other people, even though people who trained elsewhere have more rounded and often more relevant experience.

zillion

Thanks very much pg633 and LostInDaHack, I appreciate hearing your experiences.

pg633 - I suppose one of the appeals of it is the chance to travel with it....if I have no luck in Ireland getting a grad programme I reckon I’ll pack my bags and try to find something in London or further afield. Although the situation in the UK doesn't look great either!

I agree with you on the rotation programme as I reckon it’s the best way to get to know the company or industry (however, I’m not really at the stage where I can be fussy).

LostInDaHack - I’ll have to check out the BPP website properly! To be honest, auditing doesn't really appeal to me but then again I reckon it would be worth pain of doing it just to have the accounting qualification even though I would prefer to go the CIMA route.

Private equity would be some industry to be involved in alright, tough work I’d say though, even though the rewards would cushion the blow nicely I’d imagine. Have you considered the CFA exams as they are bound to be ideal ticket to private equity? Maybe?

On a general note there is a definite leaning towards the big 4 among students, I guess it does look a lot better on the CV but there are advantages and disadvantages when you compare it smaller practices.

CFA is not really relevant to PE - more to investment mgt., fixed income and trading really. PE is more about understanding the dynamics of a business and specifically cash flow.

zillion

LostInDaHack wrote: »

CFA is not really relevant to PE - more to investment mgt., fixed income and trading really. PE is more about understanding the dynamics of a business and specifically cash flow.

Ya, fair enough, apparently a lot of people involved in PE would have the qualification but probably because there are a lot who get involved in PE with an investment banking background or whatever, my bad.

fontanalis

Which of the big 4 were auditors of Anglo Irish Bank?

The___________

'audotors' Jesus H Christ.

fontanalis

The___________ wrote: »

'audotors' Jesus H Christ.

typi fail

hinault

fontanalis wrote: »

Which of the big 4 were auditors of Anglo Irish Bank?

Ernst & Young.

honeymonster

I work in one of the big four and I want to move to a smaller firm. You get better experience and more pay.

timo87

honeymonster wrote: »

I work in one of the big four and I want to move to a smaller firm. You get better experience and more pay.

Really?

BTH

Anyone who thinks people earn more money in small firms than they do in the big 4 clearly has their head buried firmly in the sand.

3-6 years ago (my day) big 4 trainees where on at least €10k more than their small firm counterparts.

censuspro

I don't think that was the case. 3-6 years ago smaller firms found it more difficult to retain staff and therefore had to pay higher salaries plus Big 4 firms always had their pick of candidates and people want to work in a Big 4 firm because it looks good on their cv and are willing to take a smaller salary. Big 4 firms also have all their trainees tied into a contract which is not the case in smaller firms because some of them would be regulated by ACCA or CPA.

How much was a trainee in a Big 4 firm on 3-6 years ago?

kabuk1

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

Anyone who thinks people earn more money in small firms than they do in the big 4 clearly has their head buried firmly in the sand.

3-6 years ago (my day) big 4 trainees where on at least €10k more than their small firm counterparts.

I did just over one year at a big4 and it made me leave accountancy all together.

As for salary, I started on €24k at the Big4, which was then reduced by 10%. I was also offered a place at a small practice starting on €23k. So, there wasn't much of a difference in the starting salary. When it comes to getting a raise, the Big4 may give bigger raises, or at least I'm sure they did. Pay was frozen at the firm I was at, so people will only be seeing their first raise in Fall 2010.

I think that my choice of the Big 4 over the small practice was a big mistake. There are aspect of accountancy and business I really enjoy, but auditing is definitely NOT one of them. To be honest, the majority of the trainees in my department hated their job and couldn't wait to get out.