Big brother

rugbyman

Hello All, i have read these threads on a daily basis over the last two years and enjoyed all of it.

Some time ago i mentioned on someones thread that i faced a court case re my old cars and parking them in my own yard.

Today i suffered the ignominy of being ordered by a judge to remove my 50 year old DKW from my own property and to remove a n Austin A35 from my shed ,where it has taken root . if anyone else rents the property off me they can have a sports car or a boat but I cannot. The inspector from the Council, who was ok ish, had not seen the A35, nor had the judge. I am absolutely livid, somewhat with myself.

its hard to believe how much Big Brother has leaned on me.

rugbyman

More details later.

carchaeologist

rugbyman wrote: »

Today i suffered the ignominy of being ordered by a judge to remove my 50 year old DKW from my own property and to remove a n Austin A35 from my shed ,where it has taken root . if anyone else rents the property off me they can have a sports car or a boat but I cannot. The inspector from the Council, who was ok ish, had not seen the A35, nor had the judge. I am absolutely livid, somewhat with myself.

How is this?On your own property?Were they an eyesore,thats the only grounds i can think of for this?

alpina

carchaeologist wrote: »

How is this?On your own property?Were they an eyesore,thats the only grounds i can think of for this?

+1

245

Why are you livid with yourself?

So, if the cars were on your property as a rental agreement then it'd be ok? What are the grounds for removal - I would have thought environmental (the usual about a concrete base & soiled water capture) or even aesthetics but a rental agreement would seem to rule these out...

Sorry to hear of your troubles, by the way...

rugbyman

I own a house out the country, down a lane , boy scouts with compasses would have trouble finding it.

bought it in 1987, lived in it as a newly wed from 89 to 92.

i tended to drive cheapies,as now, 100 pound yokes, ,Also i had a 1975 midget ,rusty and another MG donor ,rotten, renault 12 , talbot solara etc. If a car was offered to me for 100 quid, home it came.

years and years went by, various renters stayed. My nephew rented for several years, he was as much a magpie as me and various crashed cars arrived.

We have had neighbours who are pretty nasty to say the least and they got the Council on to us. we were convicted ,wrongly ,in my opinion in the local court of a planning offence, an unauthorised development, namely a scrapyard.

No problem .we appealed it, heavy gang there to ensure a victory, Solicitor, barrister ,planning expert.

The judge, who was not the worst, in fairness ,more or less gave us a choice, no conviction but clean up EVERYTHING, dkw etc(the council chap had already said this car was not an issue.) or let the conviction sit.

My side kept at me that it was my decision, and I chose the wrong one, the no conviction and clean up route.

I feel/know I made the wrong decision, but the specific points made are so crazy, a renter can keep a car per member of family or group and a sports car for himself and a boat and a caravan, but not one for me.
If I move back in I cannot repair my own car there. it is wierd.

my bills for the lot are just short of 5k Euro

In the garden of the house where I live now , are a Rover 95, Mini Cooper, Mercedes 250, two motorbiles and a BX gti. I intended moving all these out there after the court.

I have a Saab 96 and an NSU elsewhere awaiting space in my own yard but no, now I have to move these other two out of my own yard.

I am sick,

By the way ,no one need worry about this too much re themselves , this is a specific case to me apparently.

My nine year old daughter(work that out from the year I got married and the type of cars mentioned, yes I am a lucky man) now asks does that mean she could be ordered to get her teddies of her room.

To add a bit more info chaps, my nephew who lived there and owned most of the stuff there is paralysed down one side following 3 strokes. he is a hell of a survivor and can drive an Automatic, cars are his only interest. Big Brother you are doing well tonight.

regards, Rugbyman

carchaeologist

Was there alot of cars there in total?

rugbyman

in the photos shown as evidence, two crashed focus, one freelander, one ducato, 3 car carrying trailers(one had been bought on ebay in the UK to take the DKW home), one dkw
one crashed bmw,one non running lexus(there six years)
one 968(there six years), few seats and doors

rugbyman

quattro777

Ah b****** neighbours... it all becomes clear.

Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Rent the place to some lunatic who likes playing dance music at 4am.

kasper

sorry to hear about the aggro ,so much for private property big brother needs a kick in the n#ds

SDTimeout

quattro777 wrote: »

Ah b****** neighbours... it all becomes clear.

Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Rent the place to some lunatic who likes playing dance music at 4am.

Just waiting until my mam lets me move away from rugbyman and mrs rugby man. Into the house

Cow tipping at 4am is a blast

Owen

I wonder if you had some ameniable neighbours if you could rent them a room for a euro a year, and transfer the cars names into their names. Gutted for you though, not a pleasant thing to go through. Big Sean the breaker in Cork is undergoing something similar AFAIK.

Having said that, if you need a home for the Mini, just shout, can never have enough Minis

SligoBrewer

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Having said that, if you need a home for the Mini, just shout, can never have enough Minis

Amen brother.:D

Landyaddict

Bloody hell,
This is just crazy, I'd hate to hear what my neighbours say about me and I'm in a housing estate.

Sorry RM, to hear you had to go through this, I hope it somehow sorts it's self out. It sounds like my dream house.
Out in the country
Hard to find
Plenty of space
And all the cars (Land Rovers) I can fit

Only problem, flippin neighbours

Keep us updated

Landy

BTW, whats wrong with the freelander?

corktina

some pictures would be illuminating...i once had 8 cortinas in my drive, all neat and tidy and parked properley. The neighbours would have had something to complain about had I had 8 scrappers thrown about the place falling apart...

Dades

rugbyman, did your neighbours approach you about the cars before getting the council involved?

What legislative basis was there for the council to force you to remove them?

rugbyman

Dades wrote: »

rugbyman, did your neighbours approach you about the cars before getting the council involved?

What legislative basis was there for the council to force you to remove them?

dades, i read you over on the believer/non believer pages and had noted you here.

I am sick as a parrot over this.
i have not time for long details , but can do

These neighbours havebeen waging war on anyone in my house ,before me or since for 35 years. they are nasty people, beyond my ken, as i am reasonable.
they alerted any agency they can find to get at me.

The council had no problem with the old cars but they deemed the crashed ones as a commercial business.

I feel rotten as, under oath I answered everthing truthfully and clearly the judge is saying I am lying.
the agreement made , stupidly by me with the judge is that everything has to go, even the A35 in my shed, which no one is aware of. The council man was not the worst, but the executive decision to prosecute me was a disgrace.

I appreciate all your comments and support and will type more details when i get a chance.
regards, Rugbyman

rugbyman

Landyaddict wrote: »

Bloody hell,
This is just crazy, I'd hate to hear what my neighbours say about me and I'm in a housing estate.

Sorry RM, to hear you had to go through this, I hope it somehow sorts it's self out. It sounds like my dream house.
Out in the country
Hard to find
Plenty of space
And all the cars (Land Rovers) I can fit

Only problem, flippin neighbours

Keep us updated

Landy

BTW, whats wrong with the freelander?

Thanks for your sympathy. the house and adjoining shed was perfect for a car enthusaist, will post pics in a week or so. am off today to the Uk to work for a week.
rugbyman

rugbyman

freelander now broken, very clean fire interior ,not dash damage, bought supposed to be ok ,but with no key. got a key ,started , petrol engine ,nice yoke, not worth fixing except for oneself.
gone now anyway

Rugbyman

Landyaddict

rugbyman wrote: »

freelander now broken, very clean fire interior ,not dash damage, bought supposed to be ok ,but with no key. got a key ,started , petrol engine ,nice yoke, not worth fixing except for oneself.
gone now anyway

Rugbyman

Thats a pity, was looking for an engine to resolve a head gasket blown one I could get for little money.
Go do ur bit in the UK and don't worry about whats going on, I'm sure there is enough support from some here if you have to move cars, temp homes could be found around.:rolleyes: till things die down
Landy

Big Nasty

Not being smart but a big fcuk off hedge around your premises would help a lot!

Owen

And a couple of well trained dogs.

rugbyman

three days later, I waken up still wondering how I am the only person in ireland who has to move a car out of my own garage, where no body knows of its existence.

the actions by the Council were not on the basis of old cars, in fact the chap said this in court, he had no problem with "the old anglia" actually a dkw.
the action was motivated by malice on the part of a neighbour and unfortunately over keenly acted on by the council. the offending evidence on the councils part were some modern crashed cars nd parts.

Anyway folk, when I have time i am going to look into this again; this time it will not involve legal people ,because they are not a lot of use.

if anyone knows of any relavant laws which I can look up pls post details, and just as I am typing i realise the best thing would be a solicitor :barrister who is one of us, i.e. an old car fan

regards Rugbyman

spooky donkey

yes I know some one who had 5 cars, lives in the country and was starting to get dirty looks from the neighbours. He build him self a garage and it put paid to the dirty looks. I must tell him how lucky he was.
If we lived in a truly free country you could do what you wanted on your own property.

Landyaddict

spooky donkey wrote: »

yes I know some one who had 5 cars, lives in the country and was starting to get dirty looks from the neighbours. He build him self a garage and it put paid to the dirty looks. I must tell him how lucky he was.
If we lived in a truly free country you could do what you wanted on your own property.

Yeap, I rang my bro in Galway last night and warned him about his collection of crashed and damaged vehicles and bikes, he is cleaning up this weekend.

It's a lesson to be learnt, neighbours are NOT your friend's no matter how many "cups of sugar" they borrow, all they are doing is watching what your doing.

I still get my "noisey neighbour" comment on my restoration vehicle.
Stuff like " looks like it'll be finished soon"

In reality he wants to see how soon it will look more like a vehicle and not a pile of bites.

Rugbyman, offer still stands, if i can help in anyway , just ask.
I'd love a trip to the "country"

Smell of dung,noise of the cows and sheep, the bark of the border collie.......Too noisey for me

Landy

corktina

when we moved house a few years ago, the buyer (related to us!) kept on and on about taking away all the old car parts and my solicitor was phoning me everyday saying you will make sure you take all the car parts away....(as if Id leave them!)...so i loaded them all up and brought them with me and left all the other non-car rubbish behind me ...serves them right...gits.

MercMad

With the greatest respect Rugbyman it would appear to me that apart from the classic and personal use cars you do seem to have amassed a collection of modern damaged cars and I can therefore assume that the neighbours took offence to what they saw as a business operation. The council would have uphelad this because it does contavene planning laws.

if all of the cars on this property were in your own name as private cars,m you would have had no problem, however I suspect that the ownership was not transfered, therefore they assumed you are/were a motor dealer to some degree. Be this right or wrong once they see this as fact its pretty hard to change their minds.

This brings about another point.............perhaps this is the reason that most abandoned cars are "not for sale" or "being restored" etc....as I expect a lot of landowners around the countryside are probably a bit wiser than most when it comes to property !

Either way Rugbyman, I'm sorry to hear of your plight, but if either of your classics are not in your name, recify that, and if possible start to drive them.Let it be seen that your are using them privately. I guarantee nobody can tell you where to keep them if you have established their use as private cars.

rugbyman

MercMad wrote: »

With the greatest respect Rugbyman it would appear to me that apart from the classic and personal use cars you do seem to have amassed a collection of modern damaged cars and I can therefore assume that the neighbours took offence to what they saw as a business operation. The council would have uphelad this because it does contavene planning laws.

if all of the cars on this property were in your own name as private cars,m you would have had no problem, however I suspect that the ownership was not transfered, therefore they assumed you are/were a motor dealer to some degree. Be this right or wrong once they see this as fact its pretty hard to change their minds.

This brings about another point.............perhaps this is the reason that most abandoned cars are "not for sale" or "being restored" etc....as I expect a lot of landowners around the countryside are probably a bit wiser than most when it comes to property !

Either way Rugbyman, I'm sorry to hear of your plight, but if either of your classics are not in your name, recify that, and if possible start to drive them.Let it be seen that your are using them privately. I guarantee nobody can tell you where to keep them if you have established their use as private cars.

Thank you for your advice. this rotten situation would take a week of typing to explain.

one of the vehicles to be moved is 50 years old has not run in 20 years, has no paperwork and no reg numbers but it is mine. i have 11 old cars lying in different places and none of the are registered.

i say again, the council said they had no problem with collectors cars. but this could change.
thanks again

rugbyman

Dades

What a nightmare, rugbyman.

MercMad makes some good points, though no doubt there's more to the story than we know.

You see a collection of interesting cars on your property - your neighbours see an unauthorised junkyard. Maybe you can start again - with registered vehicles? Scant consolation I know, given what you've had to already do.

Are the people on the council any way decent, just their hands are tied? Or are they a lost cause for support down the line?

kasper

have a massive auction i am sure your neighbours would love to have the place blocked up with more cars

rugbyman

Dades wrote: »

What a nightmare, rugbyman.

MercMad makes some good points, though no doubt there's more to the story than we know.

You see a collection of interesting cars on your property - your neighbours see an unauthorised junkyard. Maybe you can start again - with registered vehicles? Scant consolation I know, given what you've had to already do.

Are the people on the council any way decent, just their hands are tied? Or are they a lost cause for support down the line?

I know the council inspector personally and he is OK. But civil servants are a strange breed, I know plenty of them, I reckon they are now in a funny spot and will discuss with them. I doubt if they had wanted a situation like this to occour.
in evidence he said that he had no problem with " the old anglia", clearly it was not being dismantled for parts.

To sum up ,
1 On oath I said i did not sell cars, nor parts nor allow others to break them.
2 on oath my nephew said the same. he, though paralysed down one side , does sell certain items in the motor trade, but not fom this site, nor are any of his items removed from cars there.

3 on oath the council man said that he "thought " and " got the impression" that there was commercial activity

thats the sum of the evidence, the judge clearly thinks we were lying.



By the way Dades, as an aethiest ,swearing on a book means little to me, but my word is my bond. there is nothing on Earth that would induce me to lie on Oath.

P.
S. there are two cars on ebay this week that i fancy. I propose to buy one or both.

merc mad, there were two ford focus shells ,both scrapped to get parts for the one I drive. and an oo freelander and a few vans

1 ducato bought for 500 to do one job ( no not a bank job) later scrapped elsewhere
2 small van , used by the fellow who rented the house
3 Transit, ex uk gas company with generator and compressor , lying else where now, still for sale. anyone interested?


There were two bits of damning evidence, one a picture of my trailer( bought off ebay to bring home a dkw from the UK) loaded with six front suspension units. this was stored on my ground for a week, not for sale, not being sold,

another picture , not prodeced by the council, but by the neighbour and ALLOWED by the judge taken INSIDE my shed, shed is big enough for eight cars.
this showed the Austin a35 van and eleven doors accumulated over the years.
these doors were swapped with a real breakers yard for something two yaers ago.
the council man had not ben in the shed, had no interest in it and yet the judge said it has to go!

look lads, for any of several reasons thze wholme thing could not have gone more wrong. There is MUCH? MUCH more to this than meets the eye.
because of another pending court case I cannot say much.

. Ah well, tying this is a form of Therapy

regards Rugbyman

rugbyman

By the way i am fairly sure that if someone applies to the council for planning to store old cars in this shed then it will be granted or perhaps pointed out that this use is exempt and does not need permission.
this , if true , will leave both the council and I in a spot.
going to ask next week.
Rugbyman

THE PUG

Sadly I would not definatly blame the neighbours, this nanny society of ours are aided by over enthusiastic envoromental officers in the council , who trall the countryside for any evidence of '' scrap ''. This is what we have become , and in their minds , scrap is any vehicle which appears to be 'end of life' . Now who are these doods to dermine when a possible classic would be at the end of its life .They are destroying some of our motoring history , Your only option is to house the items as at least in the flush times of revenue within the councils , these doods actually used helicoptors to scan our habitats to see if there lay anything that looked remotely untidy.

What have we become !!!!!!!!!!!!

BeardyGit

THE PUG wrote: »

Sadly I would not definatly blame the neighbours, this nanny society of ours are aided by over enthusiastic envoromental officers in the council , who trall the countryside for any evidence of '' scrap ''. This is what we have become , and in their minds , scrap is any vehicle which appears to be 'end of life' . Now who are these doods to dermine when a possible classic would be at the end of its life .They are destroying some of our motoring history , Your only option is to house the items as at least in the flush times of revenue within the councils , these doods actually used helicoptors to scan our habitats to see if there lay anything that looked remotely untidy.

What have we become !!!!!!!!!!!!

Paranoid and deluded? There's a difference between someone building a collection of cars and someone who's collecting crashed cars just because they were once upon a time nice/interesting/whatever. Crashed cars with bits missing equals scrap in my books. I've probably had 6 or 7 scrappers through my driveway in the last 18 months. None have sat outside for any more than a week or ten days though. I've taken delivery, pulled what I've needed/wanted and then loaded it up on the trailer again and got rid. What's the point in collecting crap?

I feel for RugbyMan to some extent. Nice cars have no doubt been disposed of as a consequence of a court judgement and directive. But if we're going to be fair and honest in reacting, I have to say I think half the reason they've been disposed of is down to RugbyMan himself, or the nephew. If the cars that were truly to be valued were top of the list of priorities, all the crashed ****e should have been got rid of long ago. I'd put money on it that the council wouldn't have had a problem if you only had a handful of your own cars there, as opposed to all manner of yokes rotting into the ground.

Hard luck in many ways - There's folks who ARE running scrapyards from their farms and yards that'll get away with it, while honest johns like RugbyMan end up getting done for it. It's a risk, but keeping the stable at a manageable (and somewhat hideable) level will keep these private collections safer and out of public scrutiny I guess.

gogs2006

rugbyman wrote: »

another picture , not prodeced by the council, but by the neighbour and ALLOWED by the judge taken INSIDE my shed, shed is big enough for eight cars.

Have you considered reporting your neighbour for breaking into your shed or trespassing on private property?

I had a similar problem last year with a neighbour.I have a number of vehicles on my property.Some are work related and the others are vintage cars

I applied for planning permission to build a shed for the storage of the vintage cars.
A new neighbour (New to the locality also) behind my property started approaching other neighbours and asking them to lodge an objection to my planning application because he presumed my shed was for the purpose of commercial activity.

Thankfully the other neighbours declined to do so and tipped me off that he was planning to lodge an objection.

I started my ground work and had materials delivered but after a week i realised i had problems when early one sunday morning my girlfriend walked into the kitchen and spotted a man lurking in the back yard at the rear of the proposed shed.

I contacted the gardai and told them i had a trespasser but my girlfriend could only give a brief description because she panicked and ran out of the kitchen when she seen this man.

After some enquiries the gardai came to the conclusion that it was my new neighbour but were unable to take action because of the poor description.

I decided to set a trap with this neighbour by buying a battered old transit and parking it within view of his house.I removed the engine and other parts.
Within days a council official arrived to inspect the property and i showed him that the transit van was for storing cement and building materials.He was happy that i agreed to dispose of the van properly when the building work finished.

A week later i noticed my new neighbour taking photos of my property from his back garden.

A swift phone call to the guards reporting a PERVERT taking photos of my nephew and niece playing in the back yard put a stop to my new neighbours interference!!!!!!

bijapos

gogs2006 wrote: »

A week later i noticed my new neighbour taking photos of my property from his back garden.

A swift phone call to the guards reporting a PERVERT taking photos of my nephew and niece playing in the back yard put a stop to my new neighbours interference!!!!!!

:pac::pac: Brilliant!!