Perspective and Guidance

Psychedelia

I am asking what type of things does the modern atheist use when they need perspective or guidance?

ok i am atheist myself. one hundred percent.

Oddly one of my favourite teachers at school was a priest; he once pointed out that despite whatever you might think about a religion, they tend to gather up wisdom in them and mix it among the stories.

But those who don't want a story. what do we do to achieve that which religion gives people, the placebo effect which seems to work well for people on a psychological level.

i'm just wondering what people do in times when they feel pressured, stressed or down etc.
someone dies, your at wits end.

I ask this out of curiosity and out of wanting to know what's available to myself also.

Thanks

Petrovia

Hmm. Well, it's kinda hard for a placebo to work if you don't believe in it being a cure... Because believing that it works is sort of vital to what a placebo is.

Although I do find that, and this may sound terribly selfish to the believer to some, when someone dies, all I have to grieve over is the fact that I (and others) have lost them. I do not have to be anxious about whether they'll end up in heaven or not and I do not have to worry about how much they might hate being dead. They're just dead. They cannot feel anything now. They are not in a bad place, because they aren't in any place.

When I feel pressured, stressed or down... I don't know, I try to deal with it, I guess. I suppose you're alluding to prayer and the way it can give people peace? I just try to argue logically and put things in perspective, or even just let myself be (the worst is when you're pressured/stressed/down and then start feeling pressured/stressed/down about being pressured/stressed/down respectively) and I doubt (although obviously I can't be sure) that if I was a religious person saying a prayer would work better.

Goduznt Xzst

In regards to death... it happens. You can't do anything about those already dead. But you can accept that everyone you love around you is dying and act accordingly. Treat everyday you are with those you love as if it is the last, and when you part ways, leave with a memory that you would be happy having as your last with them.

I find relationships tend to go through more ups and downs when the individuals in them don't have a grasp of how impermanent these relationships are.

In regards to pressure and stress... you need to be able to rationalize your elevated position in regards to human existence and not take it wholly for granted. Is this an easy task? No. Humans like to take things for granted.

I have in my mind a situation so horrible as to be unspeakable (yet I know many humans are currently living it) If I spill something on my keyboard, or don't get that extra shot I asked for in my skinny, no foam, no sugar, venti, triple shot vanilla cappuccino I just draw my mind back to that situation, and imagine myself explaining my problem to a person living in it.
Doing that quickly gives me perspective on the situation.

iUseVi

Psychedelia wrote: »

I am asking what type of things does the modern atheist use when they need perspective or guidance?

ok i am atheist myself. one hundred percent.

Oddly one of my favourite teachers at school was a priest; he once pointed out that despite whatever you might think about a religion, they tend to gather up wisdom in them and mix it among the stories.

But those who don't want a story. what do we do to achieve that which religion gives people, the placebo effect which seems to work well for people on a psychological level.

i'm just wondering what people do in times when they feel pressured, stressed or down etc.
someone dies, your at wits end.

I ask this out of curiosity and out of wanting to know what's available to myself also.

Thanks

Not sure if its on the right sort of line, but sometimes when I've felt depressed (lost my job etc) I contemplate on the universe and how amazing it is that we humans are here to observe it. Theres no God on your shoulder watching you, no heaven above to oppress you, no hell below when you die. Personally I find that liberating. Our existence may be brief but there are many wonderful things to enjoy in life and you shouldn't let anyone stop you doing them.

Stercus Accidit

I heard a quote from a friend who is into psychology (or is it psychiatry?) that basically when you go to see a therapist, they aren't there to teach you to feel good all the time, but to understand the realities of life.

Say you have a pill that would make you blissful, but you will withdraw from reality, much like finding god may give you bliss, its not necessarily true, nor is it ideal.

So the long and the short of it is your atheism is a pragmatic realistic look at the world, by having that perspective, when things are hard, you are more capable of doing the right thing.

Honestly, people feel low all the time, I don't think ignoring problems is healthy aka prayer, but tackling them head on is, and you will be stronger and happier for that I suppose.

Daftendirekt

I'd usually just find some uplifting music, or a good film or book. V For Vendetta and Tim Burton's version of Sweeney Todd are always good for a lift.

This too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZUy8-zX67c

Never fails to cheer me up.

iUseVi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5BxymuiAxQ

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Zillah

I find it is actually very simple. I accept what I feel, I believe what can be deduced. No more, no less.

I think the notion that one requires external justification is a problem-causing fallacy. I concede that adapting this mentally will not come easily for many, but it's pretty sweet once you're there.

strobe

Psychedelia wrote: »

I am asking what type of things does the modern atheist use when they need perspective or guidance?

ok i am atheist myself. one hundred percent.

Oddly one of my favourite teachers at school was a priest; he once pointed out that despite whatever you might think about a religion, they tend to gather up wisdom in them and mix it among the stories.

But those who don't want a story. what do we do to achieve that which religion gives people, the placebo effect which seems to work well for people on a psychological level.

i'm just wondering what people do in times when they feel pressured, stressed or down etc.
someone dies, your at wits end.

I ask this out of curiosity and out of wanting to know what's available to myself also.

Thanks

Personally, and I'm not recommending this as that would probably be frowned apon, in times of great stress like you describe, someone close to me dying, at my wits end ect, one thing that I have found to be massively beneficial and therapeutic is to take MDMA with a few close friends, talk it through, and then go on to have a great night. I think it's one of the most disgusting abuses of power that have resulted from the USA's war on drugs that a chemical with such massive potential for use in therapeutic medicine was banned outright on blatently and completely falsified research. (But that's a discussion for a different forum. Although I could probably put forward a reasonably good argument for the USA's Christianity inspired puritanical tradition being directly responsible for such idiocy.)

hiorta

iUseVi wrote: »

Theres no God on your shoulder watching you, no heaven above to oppress you, no hell below when you die.

Beautiful quote, thank you.

I have looked into such matters for many years, the most helpful being via great old-time mediums who showed this quote to be true.
Life is inextinguishable and we have no choice but to live it. Death is no more than change and probably expansion. 'All' is an unlimited variety of vibration, which we ourselves can determine and change.
Just as there is no god on your shoulder in this chapter, neither is there one in any other chapter - in effect, we ourselves are god in embryo and by virtue of spiritual inheritance.

If we live to the highest that we can reach, treating other life as we ourselves would want to be treated, then we can do no more and all the praying, blowing smoke, chanting, climbing mountains on our knees, splashing water - holy or otherwise - will not change our lifes' destinations in the slightest.

Zillah

hiorta wrote: »

Life is inextinguishable and we have no choice but to live it. Death is no more than change and probably expansion. 'All' is an unlimited variety of vibration, which we ourselves can determine and change.
Just as there is no god on your shoulder in this chapter, neither is there one in any other chapter - in effect, we ourselves are god in embryo and by virtue of spiritual inheritance.

Ah but skjnd sdk j sdlkampow pmqwm k sd hj bysduv huuggghhyyllullaugh hsdhsllllsaaa jknjas am,jjfk fhhdyt kjauw ekjunygsyud kljw akjbh. Furthermore I would assert huagghlughghgu yeahrhlt ajs nkjn ,mnnmmn yuaygw aiioj wjknkjnd kjyuuyf njk jkndfu dhbdfbuyb ahbahggyua. Regardless skjdnkj sjhdbfusdygf sdhb skjnubew ybvuvta retarded kjhsayubd hbhbj wjhvbatvua.

There. You and I just made the same amount of sense.

Petrovia

hiorta wrote: »

I have looked into such matters for many years, the most helpful being via great old-time mediums who showed this quote to be true.

Say whut?

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

There. You and I just made the same amount of sense.

I dunno - I kinda liked this:

hiorta wrote: »

If we live to the highest that we can reach, treating other life as we ourselves would want to be treated, then we can do no more and all the praying, blowing smoke, chanting, climbing mountains on our knees, splashing water - holy or otherwise - will not change our lifes' destinations in the slightest.

ChocolateSauce

If you are asking do I ever feel like atheism leaves a hole that needs filling, no, not in the slightest. In fact, my views on death are rather easy-going.

When I feel pressured, stressed or down, it is always due to normal reasons in which my lack of religion doesn't apply.

As a younger person I was sometimes unable to properly refute a point made by a theist, and in those instances I went to the site Ebonmusings.org to get some rebuttal material, but I haven't needed to do that in years.

ChocolateSauce

Dades wrote: »

I dunno - I kinda liked this:

It reminded me of a Mushroom trip.

But then again, so did Zillah's.

Ickle Magoo

Psychedelia wrote: »

I am asking what type of things does the modern atheist use when they need perspective or guidance?

I watch the news - there are always, quite literally, a billion people worse off than I am on my worst day and a quick scan of the world news channels is a good way to put things in perspective. I do volunteer work, I tutor adults who in some cases are completely illiterate - it often makes me realise just what I take for granted. I also help out in my son's classroom and seeing the kids learning & growing each week and hanging on every word of a story gives me a really positive perspective of a world I regularly despair of.

For guidance, out-with my own private reflection it would probably be my husband, my family and my close friends I turn to when I need help with a decision or some support.

Psychedelia wrote: »

i'm just wondering what people do in times when they feel pressured, stressed or down etc.
someone dies, your at wits end.

I'm not sure I really "do" anything specific. I just try to work through my emotions in what ever way I think will help. Be that writing or hugging or talking or crying or whatever. I'm fairly pragmatic so I tend to dip and then give myself a kick up the backside.

fitz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g

That puts things in perspective for me.

As for stress and pressure, I find the music of the Boss helps.

Psychedelia

fantastic!

thanks for all these replies!

There are many very good points made in this thread regarding perspective on life.
The only reason i actually bring up religion in respect to guidance and perspective is because in society it is the most obvious (questionably effective) source of council.

this thread stemmed from my mind set going on a dizzy cycle of perspectives there over the last while; over all too short of a period of time i'd zoom from the macro-cosmic to the microsmic.
7)Like from watching say extreme universe, or learning about evolution and feeling the enormity of the universe and the excitement of being alive in itself;
6)to the slightly closer to earth perspective of basking in art and literature and seeing it as the pinnacle of existence;
5)to the similar level of idealism in life's goals and reading about famous respectable and honourable leaders;
4)zoom to: your current life on a day to day perspective and where your going in the future;
3)to your today this week;
2)to today;
1)to moments; and thinking in altogether cynical and indifferent manner in regards to the universe, literature and everything that doesn't immediately concern you. The scepticism in regards to any ideals at all

zoom out and repeat.

i guess its a matter of achieving a healthy balance between realism and idealism in life.
Balance. -> guidance and perspective: rinse and repeat.


On a not completely related note, what activities do you people do to achieve a balanced, calm and healthy mind?
we're talking more hardcore than walking (not negating walking but i've already considered that haven't i ) like some hard physical training or what ever does it for you!

Zillah

Psychedelia wrote: »

On a not completely related note, what activities do you people do to achieve a balanced, calm and healthy mind?
we're talking more hardcore than walking (not negating walking but i've already considered that haven't i ) like some hard physical training or what ever does it for you!

I make visceral, verbose, belligerent and sarcastic posts on the internet. It prevents me from breaking down into scornful laughter when dealing with real world religious people.

Psychedelia

I make visceral, verbose, belligerent and sarcastic posts on the internet. It prevents me from breaking down into scornful laughter when dealing with real world religious people.

and that is what gandhi lacked!