COMBO BOX (MHEG5)

muchos04

Hello,

I recognise the fact that combo boxes do not support MHEG5. If this is the case does this then mean that if RTE or whichever station broadcast a simultaneous broadcast i.e hit the red button to follow a match, this option will not be available to people with a Combo box. I guess what i am getting at is that will RTE or whoever be offering the interactive service like the BBC etc.???

The Cush

muchos04 wrote: »

I guess what i am getting at is that will RTE or whoever be offering the interactive service like the BBC etc.???

Both countries use MHEG-5 (UK Profile, v1.06), so if the Irish channels offer interactive services such as red button you will not be able to access it.

givecredit

muchos04 wrote: »

Hello,

I recognise the fact that combo boxes do not support MHEG5. If this is the case does this then mean that if RTE or whichever station broadcast a simultaneous broadcast i.e hit the red button to follow a match, this option will not be available to people with a Combo box. I guess what i am getting at is that will RTE or whoever be offering the interactive service like the BBC etc.???

It is a possibility. What i would suggest is very likely is dual commentry on TG4, Irish and English when showing live sport, Similar to S4C. This will probably use MHEG5.

lawhec

givecredit wrote: »

It is a possibility. What i would suggest is very likely is dual commentry on TG4, Irish and English when showing live sport, Similar to S4C. This will probably use MHEG5.

It can be quite easily done using the DVB standard by attaching a language ID to an audio stream to be selected in the audio options of the receiver - many Freeview STB's sold in the UK have options for English, Welsh and Gaelic even if the latter two aren't being broadcast. TG4's (only at present) audio is tagged as Irish whereas RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TV3 is tagged as English.

However things like "red button" options are more easier for the casual viewer to use without having to go into receiver menus...

Apogee

givecredit wrote: »

It is a possibility. What i would suggest is very likely is dual commentry on TG4, Irish and English when showing live sport, Similar to S4C. This will probably use MHEG5.

Only the interface (e.g. red button) uses MHEG5. The actual audio and video streams use DVB-T and would be available on any MPEG4 DVB-T compliant receiver.

givecredit

lawhec wrote: »

It can be quite easily done using the DVB standard by attaching a language ID to an audio stream to be selected in the audio options of the receiver - many Freeview STB's sold in the UK have options for English, Welsh and Gaelic even if the latter two aren't being broadcast. TG4's (only at present) audio is tagged as Irish whereas RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TV3 is tagged as English.

However things like "red button" options are more easier for the casual viewer to use without having to go into receiver menus...

Yes aware of that. If you set a sky box default language to Welsh all live sports on S4C will have English commentry by default (When Available). No need for red button. On a fta box i think the default should be German for s4c.

lawhec

givecredit wrote: »

Yes aware of that. If you set a sky box default language to Welsh all live sports on S4C will have English commentry by default (When Available). No need for red button. On a fta box i think the default should be German for s4c.

Haven't used it for watching S4C, but the same language options are available for Euronews - I think the following are available: English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic & Russian.

muchos04

Apogee thanks for your comment. Can you outline the scenario of how this would work on a combo box? For example, take the Winter Olympics on BBC 1. You can hit the red button and it takes you to an interactive menu of 1 to 5 with different sports which can be selected and viewed. If the red button won't work on a combo box then how would you view the content on this interactive menu?

Apogee

muchos04 wrote: »

Apogee thanks for your comment. Can you outline the scenario of how this would work on a combo box? For example, take the Winter Olympics on BBC 1. You can hit the red button and it takes you to an interactive menu of 1 to 5 with different sports which can be selected and viewed. If the red button won't work on a combo box then how would you view the content on this interactive menu?

Do a manual scan on a FTA receiver for the following TPs - it will scan in the streams as individual channels:
12441, V, 27500
11954, H, 27500

The Cush

muchos04 wrote: »

Apogee thanks for your comment. Can you outline the scenario of how this would work on a combo box? For example, take the Winter Olympics on BBC 1. You can hit the red button and it takes you to an interactive menu of 1 to 5 with different sports which can be selected and viewed. If the red button won't work on a combo box then how would you view the content on this interactive menu?

Interactive services (red button etc.) on an Irish DTT receiver - if or when they become available will require an MHEG-5 compliant receiver.

Don't know if it will be possible to tune in these future Irish DTT streams as seperate channels as Apogee has suggested above for the BBC interactive streams on satellite.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

Interactive services (red button etc.) on an Irish DTT receiver - if or when they become available will require an MHEG-5 compliant receiver.

Don't know if it will be possible to tune in these future Irish DTT streams as seperate channels as Apogee has suggested above for the BBC interactive streams on satellite.

As far as I know RTE will be using MHEG5 for Superteletext.

Their headend also handles EBU Teletext. In any event EIT is broadcast in the DVB SI.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

As far as I know RTE will be using MHEG5 for Superteletext.

Their headend also handles EBU Teletext. In any event EIT is broadcast in the DVB SI.

Yep, thats what it say in the spec.

Sec 5.5. (MHEG5 Superteletext and EBU Teletext) of the RTÉ Minimum Receiver Requirements.
NorDig Unified Requirements - 13 Service Information

This was their tender document for provision of Digital Multiplex Head-end System Donnybrook last year, tender cancelled last Oct. The Technical Spec. is an interesting read, includes Multiplex Model in appendix B.

muchos04

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am not that technically up to speed with all the information but from what I am reading, is it the case then that a combo box receiver will be limited in its capacity in broadcasting Irish channels compared to a compliant set top box for the Irish market? Someone mentioned superteletext.....If i had a combo receiver then is this superteletext option defunct?

The Cush

muchos04 wrote: »

.....If i had a combo receiver then is this superteletext option defunct?

Superteletext is MHEG-5.

muchos04

And there in lies the answer I think.........the combo box will be limited in its abilities when Irish DTT is launched as it won't have superteletext capabilities. I know its not a big dea but i would like to get all the details before I get one for my father. Thanks for all the answer guys!

Regards
Muchos04

STB

Well the answer was there alright but you may have misinterepreted is. MHEG5 would not be standalone in a transitional period. Its on at the moment and has been for the last year as has normal text via combo boxes. Combo boxes are not geared specifically for the Irish market. You will see them with MHEG5 but not for another say 3/4 years in my opinion.

muchos04

Thanks STB,

Do you have a combo and what do you think of them? Do you find they work well?

Regards

Teddy455

Do they Walker Set top boxes have MHEG5?

watty

The Saorview certified ones, yes.

ALL "Freeview HD" and "Saorview" Setboxes have MHEG5.

Boxes for South Africa, if fully compliant, should work here too.

Text is just one application on MHEG5. Unlike traditional EBU Teletext which was designed for fixed hardware, and thus can never change on your TV, the MHEG5 Text application can be changed in Navigation methods, style, mix of still & video etc at any time. They can even do 3 versions that you select between for low resolution SD screens via SCART, small HD screens and larger full HD screens. They could even offer a "skin Menu" and accessibility options.

Unlike traditional EBU teletext on TVs since late 1970s, text on MHEG is just an "app" like Java Applet on PC, Android or iOS iTune Apps. In fact the competing MHP spec used in Italy and technically in France, is just a type of Java Engine. Which is partly why there is royalty on everything to do with MHP. MHEG5 is generally better optimised for TV cpus and designed with all the APIs needed for Interactivity on TV with input from Broadcast, Internet and User and control of channels, PVR and such. This is more a backward retrofit into Java on MHP.