Saiga semi auto

samthe man

i have seen and read alot bout rthe Saiga family of semiauto shotguns. I am intrested in this for crow/pegion shooting and clays. Are they sold in ireland or is there any thing simlier- box magzine semi auto-

gunhappy_ie

I enquired about them years ago and was just with a big ...NO !

I think the dealers i talked to werent interesed in importing just the single gun but if you can find a dealer in europe you can import it yourself

despending on the configuration of them they are classed as restricted on non restricted.

Grizzly 45

I know of two of them in the State,there was a dealer in Galway[short lived]who brought them in.There is a Russian military surplus importer in the UK who brings them in.They can be got as Gunhappy said in either restricted or unrestricted format.Hard enough to get even wholesale as it is the Izamash plant in Russia who makes them and they generally produce AKs and limited runs of the Saiga for their home market and Russian military.
The Saiga is good,the Molot Veper better!The veper corrects and improves on the Saigas faults.IE last shot hold open mech,A funnel style mag well,so you just drop and push in a new mag,the Saiga,you have to "rock" the clip in AK style.Also it is made by the other state factory Molot,which makes the light machine gun the RPD,and for some reason the quality control on the Molot is better.Both are built like the proveribal brick outhouse and will last several lifetimes of shooting.On the IPSC field in Europe where sports are not banned or mistaken for combat training these are the guns to have in the shotgun class.IF I had the money and a more sympathetic CS I would get one and dumpthree other shot guns that I have.

samthe man

thanks to both of you.great help,id love to see one of these guns in the flesh tho before i buy,hate to be sucked in by mazing magzine reveiws(none which are from ireland) and you tube clips

gunhappy_ie

what do you wanna know about them... ? the reviews you hear about are true .... they are a very reliable and cheap semi auto shotgun that can run on almost any ammo. they are a shotgun that can give some of the other more expensve semi autos a run for there money in terms of reliality.

as for seeing one ere in ireland ..... the few that did make it into the country im sure are being kept hidden away by there owners.

when i asked about them a few years ago i was told that no more would be imported because of there barrel length being 18" ....however ... i haveheard of several shotguns with barrels of that length being imported since then including my personal import so the should be no reason why you couldnt get an import permit pride you have valid reason to licence such a firearm.

Grizzly 45

If you get the Uk Saiga model,it is factory made for the UK market in 24ins.
and they do the politically correct 2shot mags as well.

gunhappy_ie

haha there is also a uk based company doing hi cap drum mags for them as well... cant remmber the capacity... they also do a stupid looking muzzle brake in the somewhat in the shape of an AR 50 muzzle brake..

samthe man

hey gunhappy, hav just been checking them out, FSU connections in the UK import them, in 24inch barrels,shame they wouldnt come 2 this side of the pond

gunhappy_ie

sam.... its stupidly easy to import them yourself and ull save on buying it from a dealer here... pm me if you want n ill talk you through the process

samthe man

tink the capicty is 20. saw same picture

gunhappy_ie

well its all licencable here !

Grizzly 45

Forget the 20 round drum mag.It is expensive [750 euros for two]and apprently total rubish.The springs have to be preset to the load and length of the shells,so it wont handle a load of different shells.Not to mind the whole thing is so open that any sort of dirt and grit in it is going to block its mechanism.The muzzle break is also in looks total pants.Thebetter ones out there that look better and work just as well.

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Forget the 20 round drum mag.It is expensive [750 euros for two]and apprently total rubish.The springs have to be preset to the load and length of the shells,so it wont handle a load of different shells.Not to mind the whole thing is so open that any sort of dirt and grit in it is going to block its mechanism.The muzzle break is also in looks total pants.Thebetter ones out there that look better and work just as well.

Agreed.... while there are needs to have and nice to have ... .they definatly werent either.... the box mags would do the trick i believe they come in 12s :P

samthe man

ya a company in the US and A make 8,10,and 12 round mags..typical really:)lucky them

Pkiernan

samthe man wrote: »

i have seen and read alot bout rthe Saiga family of semiauto shotguns. I am intrested in this for crow/pegion shooting and clays. Are they sold in ireland or is there any thing simlier- box magzine semi auto-

While I like the gun itself, it does not lend itself to clay pigeon shooting or hunting.

The more traditional designs are better for that. Quicker to point and smoother to swing.

Additionally, tube magazines offer the benefit of relatively quick ammo type change - for example popping in a bigger shot size for geese - if equipped with a mag lock out button, as most higher end semis are.

Grizzly 45

While I like the gun itself, it does not lend itself to clay pigeon shooting or hunting.

I beg to differ on that.It is tougher than any of the commerical designs,and will take abuse that will make any "hunting" gun puke and die.
Remember,you are talking the AK system here,much noted for reliability and durability,just scaled up to 12GA.I'd challange any shotgun to survive it's function test of being towed behind a jeep down 5klicks of Russian road and function flawlessy.Only other gun I know that ever stood up to that test was the 9mm UZI.

The more traditional designs are better for that. Quicker to point and smoother to swing.

Maybe,but why then do some of the more expensive custom pumps or semis on the market have extended style pistol grips on the stock for trap shooting????Point and swing is relative to a person not a fact of the gun.
I find it swings about as well as an old Browning Auto 5 shotgun,and I've shot plenty of everything with one of these in a pre war config in my younger days.Even if tyou dont like the black gun look ,there is wooden traditional PC furniture for it as well.The worst I found for point and swing for me was the Spas12 shotgun.Looks cool, is a POS in reality.

Additionally, tube magazines offer the benefit of relatively quick ammo type change - for example popping in a bigger shot size for geese - if equipped with a mag lock out button, as most higher end semis are.

Well then you must know somthing that all the IPSC top shotgunners and hunters are missing in the US and Continent.The Saiga system is sweeping the boards at those kind of shoots,which was previously dominated by tube loaders.Its alot easier to drop a mag than fumble around shoving individual loads up a tube.Especially if you are in a duck blind in sub zero conditions wering gloves.Yes it can be used for hunting,there is a two shot mag available for it.

gunhappy_ie

some of the pactical shooting vids on youtube with saigas is pretty f**kin sweet !

not to mention the amount of configuration options for them is pretty endless !

Pkiernan

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I beg to differ on that.It is tougher than any of the commerical designs,and will take abuse that will make any "hunting" gun puke and die.
Remember,you are talking the AK system here,much noted for reliability and durability,just scaled up to 12GA.I'd challange any shotgun to survive it's function test of being towed behind a jeep down 5klicks of Russian road and function flawlessy.Only other gun I know that ever stood up to that test was the 9mm UZI.

Maybe,but why then do some of the more expensive custom pumps or semis on the market have extended style pistol grips on the stock for trap shooting????Point and swing is relative to a person not a fact of the gun.
I find it swings about as well as an old Browning Auto 5 shotgun,and I've shot plenty of everything with one of these in a pre war config in my younger days.Even if tyou dont like the black gun look ,there is wooden traditional PC furniture for it as well.The worst I found for point and swing for me was the Spas12 shotgun.Looks cool, is a POS in reality.

Additionally, tube magazines offer the benefit of relatively quick ammo type change - for example popping in a bigger shot size for geese - if equipped with a mag lock out button, as most higher end semis are.

Well then you must know somthing that all the IPSC top shotgunners and hunters are missing in the US and Continent.The Saiga system is sweeping the boards at those kind of shoots,which was previously dominated by tube loaders.Its alot easier to drop a mag than fumble around shoving individual loads up a tube.Especially if you are in a duck blind in sub zero conditions wering gloves.Yes it can be used for hunting,there is a two shot mag available for it.

Hi Grizzly, your points are well taken, but I don't claim to know more than the IPSC shotgunners as you stated.

My points were based on my experience, and I would be hesitant to recommend the use of this shotgun in the Irish market. It would be fantastic for home defense, but here we do not have the constitutional right to own firearms, let alone use them in self defense.

I still believe that this model is not an ideal hunting/clays rig, especially for the Irish market, and though their reasoning is utterly wrong, getting approval for this firearm will prove more difficult in this country.

Additionally parts will be more difficult to source in the unlikely event they are needed - and everything does eventually wear out.

I worked in (whats left of!) the California gun industry for 12 years before returning here, and I personally find that this configuration does not point as well as the traditional design.

Given that it is based on the AK configuration (an "assault rifle" - how I hate that term), which was designed to be an all rounder allowing its user to fire not only aimed from the shoulder, but also from unaimed lower hold positions while advancing under fire, I do not consider it to be the best all round configuration for clays and hunting (as the OP mentioned he wanted it for.

All the best,
P.

gunhappy_ie

My points were based on my experience, and I would be hesitant to recommend the use of this shotgun in the Irish market. It would be fantastic for home defense, but here we do not have the constitutional right to own firearms, let alone use them in self defense.

I still believe that this model is not an ideal hunting/clays rig, especially for the Irish market, and though their reasoning is utterly wrong, getting approval for this firearm will prove more difficult in this country.

Additionally parts will be more difficult to source in the unlikely event they are needed - and everything does eventually wear out.

QUOTE]

Pkiernan.... Please can you explain how this: http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga12.shtml

is not ideal for hunting or clay shooting ?

as was stated previously the Saiga 12 is available in many configurations both resricted and non restricted.

The above link leads to a firearm with a capable of taking (as well as standard rounds) magnum loads and slugs which it fires from its 580 mm (22.8 inch) barrel. The barrel can also accept chokes. I would like to see you swing that length of a barrel in a confined space or "home defence" situation

since magazines can be bought in 2 round capacity how do you see this as being a hard to licence item ?

as for your agruments reguarding parts ... I couldnt disagree more. IMO the reason parts are hard to obtain here is because there has been no market set up here for these firearms but as these firearms are becomming very popular in the UK and Europe parts are easily obtainable. Even in the event of parts eventually wearing should not be of concern to the average shooter. It would take thousands of rounds or years of use for wear to set in.


with reference to having a pistol grip on a firearm, it is down to personal preferance. If there were more pistol grip shotguns out there then the irish market (and attitude) would change toward them. Pistol gripped shotguns only reason for being on the restricted list is due to misunderstanding and and miseducation in this country ! It is madness that you state that "Given that it is based on the AK configuration (an "assault rifle" - how I hate that term), which was designed to be an all rounder allowing its user to fire not only aimed from the shoulder, but also from unaimed lower hold positions while advancing under fire" you are almost saying that a pistol grip has only an advantage in a military/ LE roll.


Im sure in your 12 years in the californian firearms indusrty you have come accross the AR platform of rifle and we all know where that stems from but from what you are saying then any hunter using such a rifle is using an "assault rifle" because of there pistol grip lower no matter how accurised the upper is, despite a different caliber change, the lack of all militaristic features etc

Grizzly 45

defence" situation

since magazines can be bought in 2 round capacity how do you see this as being a hard to licence item ?

As that was the config I shot it in ,that is why I said it handled like the old Browning Auto 5.Maybe with the bigger capacity mags it wont handle as well in swinging??But then again wher most of the swing and lead shooting with shotguns are with clays or birds,you can only use a three shot anyway.

as for your agruments reguarding parts ... I couldnt disagree more. IMO the reason parts are hard to obtain here is because there has been no market set up here for these firearms but as these firearms are becomming very popular in the UK and Europe parts are easily obtainable. Even in the event of parts eventually wearing should not be of concern to the average shooter. It would take thousands of rounds or years of use for wear to set in.

I read somwhere somthing like 250K worth of rounds I belive was mentioned in the life of the gun.

gunhappy_ie

Pkiernan wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I beg to differ on that.It is tougher than any of the commerical designs,and will take abuse that will make any "hunting" gun puke and die.
Remember,you are talking the AK system here,much noted for reliability and durability,just scaled up to 12GA.I'd challange any shotgun to survive it's function test of being towed behind a jeep down 5klicks of Russian road and function flawlessy.Only other gun I know that ever stood up to that test was the 9mm UZI.

Maybe,but why then do some of the more expensive custom pumps or semis on the market have extended style pistol grips on the stock for trap shooting????Point and swing is relative to a person not a fact of the gun.
I find it swings about as well as an old Browning Auto 5 shotgun,and I've shot plenty of everything with one of these in a pre war config in my younger days.Even if tyou dont like the black gun look ,there is wooden traditional PC furniture for it as well.The worst I found for point and swing for me was the Spas12 shotgun.Looks cool, is a POS in reality.

Additionally, tube magazines offer the benefit of relatively quick ammo type change - for example popping in a bigger shot size for geese - if equipped with a mag lock out button, as most higher end semis are.

Hi Grizzly, your points are well taken, but I don't claim to know more than the IPSC shotgunners as you stated.

My points were based on my experience, and I would be hesitant to recommend the use of this shotgun in the Irish market. It would be fantastic for home defense, but here we do not have the constitutional right to own firearms, let alone use them in self defense.

I still believe that this model is not an ideal hunting/clays rig, especially for the Irish market, and though their reasoning is utterly wrong, getting approval for this firearm will prove more difficult in this country.

Additionally parts will be more difficult to source in the unlikely event they are needed - and everything does eventually wear out.

I worked in (whats left of!) the California gun industry for 12 years before returning here, and I personally find that this configuration does not point as well as the traditional design.

Given that it is based on the AK configuration (an "assault rifle" - how I hate that term), which was designed to be an all rounder allowing its user to fire not only aimed from the shoulder, but also from unaimed lower hold positions while advancing under fire, I do not consider it to be the best all round configuration for clays and hunting (as the OP mentioned he wanted it for.

All the best,
P.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

defence" situation



As that was the config I shot it in ,that is why I said it handled like the old Browning Auto 5.Maybe with the bigger capacity mags it wont handle as well in swinging??But then again wher most of the swing and lead shooting with shotguns are with clays or birds,you can only use a three shot anyway.



I read somwhere somthing like 250K worth of rounds I belive was mentioned in the life of the gun.

shhhhh im trying to catch up with the amount of posts you have ... your not making it easy :P:P:P