Time to reassess in more ways than one!!!

gerrymadden1

I hope that I can present as non-biased an opinion as possible.

Since I was a kid, over 40 years ago, I've loved the 5 / 6 Nations. I also really enjoy the Super 14s from the SH, the Tri-Nations & and the Top 14 from France. Almost every weekend, I try to get to see one live game, usually Junior 1 or 2 because I am connected to a Junior 1 club.

Last weekend's 6 nations matches were the worst that I have seen on the same weekend since I started watching. They were simply brutal!

This weekend Ireland were beaten by a French team who's bench would have displaced half of the Irish team if they were eligible to play for Ireland! We tried really hard but in my opinion we were outplayed, outmuscled & outclassed.

Wales won a game that excited the nuetral despite the inexplicable self destruction of the Scots.

England provided us with another performance today against Italy that further enhanced the case for a complete revamp of the 6 Nations. Fear of failure has completely destroyed rugby union in the Northern Hemisphere. Ironically, the team that wins by 3 nil reaps the same reward as the team that scores 6 tries and wins by 50 - 3. The purists / traditionalists may say so what. At €90 a ticket, I'd say no thanks!

B0X

Yes because we're all tri colour waving nationalists on this island so clearly singing Amhrán na bhFiann would be appropriate to represent ourselves :rolleyes:
The anthem is the least of our concerns to be honest.

toomevara

No Anthem Discussions (read the charter)...

themont85

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

I hope that I can present as non-biased an opinion as possible.

Since I was a kid, over 40 years ago, I've loved the 5 / 6 Nations. I also really enjoy the Super 14s from the SH, the Tri-Nations & and the Top 14 from France. Almost every weekend, I try to get to see one live game, usually Junior 1 or 2 because I am connected to a Junior 1 club.

Last weekend's 6 nations matches were the worst that I have seen on the same weekend since I started watching. They were simply brutal!

This weekend Ireland were beaten by a French team who's bench would have displaced half of the Irish team if they were eligible to play for Ireland! We tried really hard but in my opinion we were outplayed, outmuscled & outclassed.

Wales won a game that excited the nuetral despite the inexplicable self destruction of the Scots.

England provided us with another performance today against Italy that further enhanced the case for a complete revamp of the 6 Nations. Fear of failure has completely destroyed rugby union in the Northern Hemisphere. Ironically, the team that wins by 3 nil reaps the same reward as the team that scores 6 tries and wins by 50 - 3. The purists / traditionalists may say so what. At €90 a ticket, I'd say no thanks!

That was a great game, very enjoyable even before the drama at the end with the Scots down to 13. The Ireland-France match wasn't the greatest but France did play some great rugby, if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be praising it. The England-Italy one was a mash up of boring game plans and was never going to be good to be fair, last weekend wasnt the greatest but this week was quite good I felt.

Peter B

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

I hope that I can present as non-biased an opinion as possible.

Since I was a kid, over 40 years ago, I've loved the 5 / 6 Nations. I also really enjoy the Super 14s from the SH, the Tri-Nations & and the Top 14 from France. Almost every weekend, I try to get to see one live game, usually Junior 1 or 2 because I am connected to a Junior 1 club.

Last weekend's 6 nations matches were the worst that I have seen on the same weekend since I started watching. They were simply brutal!

This weekend Ireland were beaten by a French team who's bench would have displaced half of the Irish team if they were eligible to play for Ireland! We tried really hard but in my opinion we were outplayed, outmuscled & outclassed.

Wales won a game that excited the nuetral despite the inexplicable self destruction of the Scots.

England provided us with another performance today against Italy that further enhanced the case for a complete revamp of the 6 Nations. Fear of failure has completely destroyed rugby union in the Northern Hemisphere. Ironically, the team that wins by 3 nil reaps the same reward as the team that scores 6 tries and wins by 50 - 3. The purists / traditionalists may say so what. At €90 a ticket, I'd say no thanks!

I thought the 6 nations matches this weekend were brilliant spectacles of rugby. There was however, a bit too much kicking, fair enough.

How does the fact we were outmuscled and outclassed make the game a bad game? Is it because we were hammered? If you have been watching the game for 40+ years you should be used to this. It was an excellent display of how to play the game by the French.

The self destruction by the Scots made for a brilliant game also. Was a fantastic game. So exciting. Did you just dislike it because you wanted Scotland to beat Wales away?

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Italy-England game. It was close and not a hammering that most of us expected it to be.

I don't get your rationale

Just because the results didn't go your way doesn't mean it was a bad weekend of rugby!!!

gerrymadden1

Peter B wrote: »

I thought the 6 nations matches this weekend were brilliant spectacles of rugby. There was however, a bit too much kicking, fair enough.

How does the fact we were outmuscled and outclassed make the game a bad game? Is it because we were hammered? If you have been watching the game for 40+ years you should be used to this. It was an excellent display of how to play the game by the French.

Agree 100%. A very good game where we finally discovered that our current team has had its day and what a day it was!!! Along with the Welsh game, it was in the top 2 of the 6 games to date.

The self destruction by the Scots made for a brilliant game also. Was a fantastic game. So exciting. Did you just dislike it because you wanted Scotland to beat Wales away?

Agree again, see above.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Italy-England game. It was close and not a hammering that most of us expected it to be.

I don't get your rationale

Just because the results didn't go your way doesn't mean it was a bad weekend of rugby!!!

Got to disagree here. I thought it was another awful game involving Italy where their opponents were only interested in winning by a single point and there was no incentive to do otherwise. Johnson picked a total of 6 front row forwars in his panel. That tells its own story.

Ireland's effort last week wasn't much better. The game must move on if it is to continue to attract large crowds. You couldn't give away tickets for the Italian match last week.

Introduce bonus points for 4 trys and see how the game would shake itself up!

phog

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

Got to disagree here. I thought it was another awful game involving Italy where their opponents were only interested in winning by a single point and there was no incentive to do otherwise. Johnson picked a total of 6 front row forwars in his panel. That tells its own story.

Ireland's effort last week wasn't much better. The game must move on if it is to continue to attract large crowds. You couldn't give away tickets for the Italian match last week.

Introduce bonus points for 4 trys and see how the game would shake itself up!

Bonus points are okay for a competition where teams play home and away, als, in the 6Ns in particular you could beat a team and they could still win the 6Ns and you might never see the Grand Slam being won again.

Teams should be trying to put points on the weaker team sin case of losing one game but Ireland and now England have shown that Italy can produce a decent enough opposition.

thomond2006

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

At €90 a ticket, I'd say no thanks!

This isn't WWE.

Rugby players aren't paid to entertain the masses.

chupacabra

thomond2006 wrote: »

This isn't WWE.

Rugby players aren't paid to entertain the masses.

Yet when they entertain they draw more fans, who buy the merchandise and buy the tickets and who drum up enough support for big sponsors to become interested, which pays their salary. :rolleyes:

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

This isn't WWE.

Rugby players aren't paid to entertain the masses.

i disagree. At nigh on a hundred quid for a ticket I expect a degree of entertainment. See Argentina match 2008 /puke

thomond2006

chupacabra wrote: »

Yet when they entertain they draw more fans, who buy the merchandise and buy the tickets and who drum up enough support for big sponsors to become interested, which pays their salary. :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

i disagree. At nigh on a hundred quid for a ticket I expect a degree of entertainment. See Argentina match 2008 /puke

Point taken.

Podge_irl

The 6N is, ultimately, a series of test matches. So winning by 3 points or winning by 50 is the same thing - you've won the test match. Besides, Ireland have lost it on points difference enough times to show that aiming for big scores can help. I've also seen my fair share of useless HEC matches, it's not like bonus points are some magic cure for boring rugby.

Webbs

gerrymadden1 wrote: »

At €90 a ticket, I'd say no thanks!

I was at the Wales Scotland game and paid £25 for my ticket, bloody good value I reckon

d'Oracle

Funny, how rugby has been getting steadily less entertaining, yet steadily more popular in Ireland......

PhatPiggins

d'Oracle wrote: »

Funny, how rugby has been getting steadily less entertaining, yet steadily more popular in Ireland......

It's a paradox isn't it. I guess success is more important then entertainment to some/most.

d'Oracle

Harrumph.

I enjoyed most of the rugby I watched this weekend.
But I'm a stubborn bollix.

Jbone07

thomond2006 wrote: »

This isn't WWE.

Rugby players aren't paid to entertain the masses.

It also isnt soccer/snooker/darts or extreme fishing. You can list all the sports you want, its rugby and as a major sport is there to entertain. Otherwise what is its point??

JustinDee

Jbone07 wrote: »

It also isnt soccer/snooker/darts or extreme fishing. You can list all the sports you want, its rugby and as a major sport is there to entertain. Otherwise what is its point??

To win tournaments? Ireland v England was almost as bad as the game vs Scotland. When the comp was won, those games were the least on my mind.

Peter B

Jbone07 wrote: »

It also isnt soccer/snooker/darts or extreme fishing. You can list all the sports you want, its rugby and as a major sport is there to entertain. Otherwise what is its point??

It's actually there as a sport for people to play because they enjoy playing it. The fact that it is entertaining to watch is just circumstantial. Otherwise why don't we go down the NFL route and have cheerleaders and half time performers!

WeeBushy

The 6N might not be the same spectactle that it has been, but give me a "boring" game of rugby over any other sport any day.

stephen_n

chupacabra wrote: »

Yet when they entertain they draw more fans, who buy the merchandise and buy the tickets and who drum up enough support for big sponsors to become interested, which pays their salary. :rolleyes:

Well I think a lot of the new rugby fans who buy the Leisnter/Munster and Ireland shirts and fill the stands in Croker would strongly disagree with that. Winning isn't everything it's the only thing, when the only difference between a good game and bad one is your team winning.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

It's a paradox isn't it. I guess success is more important then entertainment to some/most.

^^^What he said^^^

thehighground

stephen_n wrote: »

Well I think a lot of the new rugby fans who buy the Leisnter/Munster and Ireland shirts and fill the stands in Croker would strongly disagree with that. Winning isn't everything it's the only thing, when the only difference between a good game and bad one is your team winning.

^^^What he said^^^

Don't know about winning being everything. The new Dublin GAA sponsorship deal was being discussed yesterday on the radio. Its worth 4.5 m - about 8 times more than any other GAA team and the Dubs are not particularly successful in comparison to Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh etc. Yet Dublin have a massive following despite being underachievers. Leinster Rugby sponsorship is worth 1.5 million and that is with a European title under its belt.

buck65

Is that not over 3 years or something?
But Vodafone or whoever are the new Dubs sponsors are only interested in the profile and the business they can gain through exposure to young lads and lasses buying jerseys etc. The Dubs are the exception because of the 50,000 plus following they bring each year to croker. It's like Munster in some ways.

thehighground

buck65 wrote: »

Is that not over 3 years or something?
But Vodafone or whoever are the new Dubs sponsors are only interested in the profile and the business they can gain through exposure to young lads and lasses buying jerseys etc. The Dubs are the exception because of the 50,000 plus following they bring each year to croker. It's like Munster in some ways.

But the Dubs still bring the 50,000 despite not being successful - the young lads and lasses still support their team. If they wanted success, they would be supporting Leinster rugby (I know some will support both - but the point I want to make is that the Dubs don't lose support even though they don't win a domestic title).

Didn't say the number of years (generally they are for 3 years). But the comparisons (8 times greater than any other GAA team) are useful.

anonymous_joe

d'Oracle wrote: »

Funny, how rugby has been getting steadily less entertaining, yet steadily more popular in Ireland......

I don't recall the 90s being more entertaining...

PhatPiggins wrote: »

It's a paradox isn't it. I guess success is more important then entertainment to some/most.

Usually is. Very few losing teams will remain popular unless it's to prove how good a fan you are. Eg, Newcastle United, etc.

thehighground wrote: »

But the Dubs still bring the 50,000 despite not being successful - the young lads and lasses still support their team. If they wanted success, they would be supporting Leinster rugby (I know some will support both - but the point I want to make is that the Dubs don't lose support even though they don't win a domestic title).

Didn't say the number of years (generally they are for 3 years). But the comparisons (8 times greater than any other GAA team) are useful.

Dublin GAA is a massive team at the end of the day. Probably the most popular team in Ireland after the football and rugby sides.

justsomebloke

Peter B wrote: »

Otherwise why don't we go down the NFL route and have half time performers!

Obviously you missed the UFC style fight between leo the Lion and the cat from High School musical last year during one of the Leinster games;)

thehighground wrote: »

But the Dubs still bring the 50,000 despite not being successful - the young lads and lasses still support their team.

yes but if the dubs were actually successful how many more people would go to all matches and not just after the win a few and get to the Leinster Final

Webbs

thehighground wrote: »

But the Dubs still bring the 50,000 despite not being successful - the young lads and lasses still support their team. If they wanted success, they would be supporting Leinster rugby (I know some will support both - but the point I want to make is that the Dubs don't lose support even though they don't win a domestic title).

Didn't say the number of years (generally they are for 3 years). But the comparisons (8 times greater than any other GAA team) are useful.

The exposure in the Irish media for GAA particularly on TV is far higher than for rugby over a year, so a company such as Vodafone look at that as a major reason for their investment.
A company looks for exposure as well as success (though in general former follows latter)
GAA is also unique in its 'regionalism' and having no national team to follow and dilute any sponsorship deals etc.

stephen_n

thehighground wrote: »

Don't know about winning being everything. The new Dublin GAA sponsorship deal was being discussed yesterday on the radio. Its worth 4.5 m - about 8 times more than any other GAA team and the Dubs are not particularly successful in comparison to Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh etc. Yet Dublin have a massive following despite being underachievers. Leinster Rugby sponsorship is worth 1.5 million and that is with a European title under its belt.

Dublin has 25% of the population of Ireland and yet don't get 25% of the overall Jersey sales for GAA . There is a huge imbalance in that scenario. The fact remains that alot of the new fans coming into rugby (all are welcome) are their because the team is winning and don't really know good rugby from bad rugby apart from a win!

Morf

Joe the Santa wrote: »

Obviously you missed the UFC style fight between leo the Lion and the cat from High School musical last year during one of the Leinster games;)

The was Leinster V Ulster very early last year.

WeeBushy

stephen_n wrote: »

Dublin has 25% of the population of Ireland and yet don't get 25% of the overall Jersey sales for GAA . There is a huge imbalance in that scenario. The fact remains that alot of the new fans coming into rugby (all are welcome) are their because the team is winning and don't really know good rugby from bad rugby apart from a win!

25% of the population live in Dublin. But a lot of those are people who have moved to Dublin from different counties and would retain their loyalty, so that stat is a bit skewed.

greendom

WeeBushy wrote: »

25% of the population live in Dublin. But a lot of those are people who have moved to Dublin from different counties and would retain their loyalty, so that stat is a bit skewed.

There's a lot who have left Dubln to and bring their flags, shirts etc with them to their new locations, redressing the balance a little.

WeeBushy

greendom wrote: »

There's a lot who have left Dubln to and bring their flags, shirts etc with them to their new locations, redressing the balance a little.

Only a little though I'd say. I know very little about GAA (this is a rugby forum after all ) so I'm kinda talking through my arse, but I don't think the 25% of people living in Dublin stat is an accurate portrayal of potential support for Dublin.