Question about "overnight guests" and insurance.

Amtmann

Question:

A friend of mine is renting a room in a house where overnight guests are not permitted because the contract states in parentheses that "only tenants are insured".

Does this make any sense at all? Guests are allowed into the house by day and in the evening; they're just not allowed to sleep over because of the insurance, apparently.

Can this be true? And, if it isn't true and it's in the contract, does that vitiate the contract as a legal document?

Agent J

That sounds highly suspect.

Sounds more like an excuse to avoid overnight guest.

A House is not a private business (and probably has a clause in the lease about that).

Therefore no public liability insurance is needed.

Also I doubt the tenants are insured. What exactly is insured? The people? The contents?

That is also rare by landlords.

Tell your friend to ask to see the insurance documents which state that exact clause. Ask the name of the insurance company and check it out themselves.

testicle

Is this a college residence?

Amtmann

It is, arranged through a college accommodation office. Postgraduate only. The landlady keeps a room there but never sleeps there.

Agent J

Furet wrote: »

It is, arranged through a college accommodation office. Postgraduate only. The landlady keeps a room there but never sleeps there.

Its not owned by the college though?

Sounds like a private residence to me.

Amtmann

Agent J wrote: »

Its not owned by the college though?

Sounds like a private residence to me.

Private residence (house)... it's just advertised through the college accommodation office.

Agent J

Furet wrote: »

Private residence (house)... it's just advertised through the college accommodation office.

Forget the college link then.

The other poster probably asked it because its standard on the lease for most college residences. (Still ignored like hell though )

It sounds like BS to me to be honest.

Del2005

Furet wrote: »

It is, arranged through a college accommodation office. Postgraduate only. The landlady keeps a room there but never sleeps there.

It looks to me like the land lady may be pulling a fast one and pretending to be renting out rooms in her house, why else would she not rent the remaining room.

On the insurance front that's more then likely BS, but if the land lady doesn't live there how will she know who stays there;)

Amtmann

I think that because the landlady technically lives there by keeping an empty room there (even though she doesn't ever stay), then the people renting the other rooms are lodgers rather than tenants and, as such, have far fewer rights?

My friend wants to leave the house - the contract runs until June 7, and my friend wants to leave at the end of March. My friend is willing to forego her deposit, which effectively means that the rent is covered until the end of April, meaning that the room will only be unoccupied for 37 days (i.e. May and the first few days of June).

We are hoping that the landlady will kindly release my friend from the contract, be happy to keep the deposit and to not pursue my friend for May's rent.

It's just that if she doesn't release my friend, we have a big problem. So we are looking for ammo, basically, such as:

1) The contract: if the contract says you are a tenant when in fact you are actually just a lodger, does that render the contract invalid? Ditto with the whole insurance claim - if that is an untruth, and if the untruth is on the contract, does that too render the contract null and void?

2) The accommodation was advertised as having a monthly rent, which would mean you pay rent 12 times during the year. However, in reality rent is collected religiously every four weeks - that is, every 28 days. This means that you pay for 13 months over the course of a year.

Personally I think it's very dishonest and fraudulent of the landlady to claim to live there when she doesn't, as well as claiming on the contract that renters are tenants when they would appear to be lodgers. So my hope would be that this would render the initial contract invalid and that my friend could move out without being pursued for the full amount up to the first few days of June.

Chances?

Agent J

*boom*

Sorry my bs detector just exploded.
The rent being collected every 4 weeks is not monthly. If it was advertised as monthy then it is per calendar month. Is it paid in cash?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/sharing-accommodation-with-your-landlord

Here is what you need.

They are techinically a licencee of a house if they live with the landlord.

In my personal opinion. The contract is not worth the paper it is written on.
If it is done up for a tenacy but its actually a living with landlord arrangement then its 2 different things.

She'll have to go through small claims court. PRTB doesnt apply here. She goes to small claims court and you just repeat your previous post. She looses. It'll never get that far though.

Id hand in some notice. Politeness would be the length of time you pay rent. In this case you are getting screwed with the 4 week/month thing so personally i wouldnt be so inclined.

Id ask her for her PPSN so tax can be claimed back.

If she refuses then she is definatley dodgey and id hand in any notice and leave. If she says one word then just threaten to report her for evasion.

If she does give it over then id still threaten to report her if she said anything at being handed notice because odds are she is claiming under rent
a room scheme.

It may sound harsh but i have zero time for dodgey landlords.

Amtmann

Thank you AgentJ. My friend actually gave notice about 2 weeks ago - which is actually two months notice.

The landlady wants her to find a replacement to fill the room until 7 June (which has proved to be an impossibility). The implication is that my friend will be forced to pay all the way to 7 June.

Thanks for that post - some hope at last!

(Paid in cash btw)

Amtmann

Just further to the above, there are 6 people in the house and I would estimate that between September 09 and June 2010 they'll pay over €21,000 between them in rent to this landlady in cash.

Now, I don't know if she is in the Rent-a-Room Scheme or not, or if she is tax compliant. We'll assume that she is.

My friend has given 2 months notice and is going to forego her deposit. Given that, how usual is it for a landlord to pursue a tenant to court for the extra month? Surely not very?

Agent J

Furet wrote: »

Just further to the above, there are 6 people in the house and I would estimate that between September 09 and June 2010 they'll pay over €21,000 between them in rent to this landlady in cash.

Now, I don't know if she is in the Rent-a-Room Scheme or not, or if she is tax compliant. We'll assume that she is.

My friend has given 2 months notice and is going to forego her deposit. Given that, how usual is it for a landlord to pursue a tenant to court for the extra month? Surely not very?

Paid in cash? Keeps a room there but doesnt use it?

These would lead me to suspect she isnt compliant. That is my opinion though.

As said previously. If you want to be sure, ask the LL for their PPSN number so you can claim the rent back as tax relief.

Her answer and demeanour will tell you wether she is compliant or not.

Personal opinoin. Its not likely at all. Id be surprised if she did. You can use the monthly thing as a defence as well.

testicle

You don't need the Landlord/lady's PPSN to claim Rent Relief.

jimmycrackcorm

testicle wrote: »

You don't need the Landlord/lady's PPSN to claim Rent Relief.

I don't think that was the point.

Max Power1

testicle wrote: »

You don't need the Landlord/lady's PPSN to claim Rent Relief.

yes but the op's "threat" of going "legit" may well work in her favour....