Kids fighting - natural order.

ch750536

I have 2 boys, 3 & 5. They are very good boys with few problems, behave well and are best of friends.

Today the 3 yr old, through anger, hit the 5 yr old over the head with a toy (he couldn't make it do what his big brother could). This toy typically causes him to get angry for some reason (is a transformer) but the older lad loves them.

Me hearing a whack on the head run to the room to see the 5 year old rugby tackle him to the ground and proceed to land numerous punches on the 3 year old. I stand back for a moment to allow natural justice to take place, then seperate them. I explain why hitting people on the head is wrong and remove the toy.

Told my wife what happened on the phone and she is not happy with 'natural justice'. Having 3 brothers myself I remember numerous fights as a kid, normally ending with lessons being learnt.

Did I do the right thing?

metrovelvet

I dont think there is a right or wrong answer. Is it a fair fight? Or does the five year old have a clear advantage?

Yeah hitting on the head is wrong but is retribution with punches ok? You know all the mothers are going to tell you that you should have told the five year old to come to you and NOT hit back and that both of them should be punished.

Wizard007

He probably whacked him out of sheer frustration of not being able to work the toy in the same way.

I'd have done the same. They're little boys and this is what little boys do. I don't think it does them any harm at all. They have to have rough and tumble

foxy06

I agree with the natural justice but maybe not at that age. In three or four years yeah but not that young. I grew up as an only girl and now have three boys and fights often break out with one coming and telling tales on the other which is something that drives me nuts. The older ones are 6 and 8 now and most of the time I just tell them to sort it out among themselves. They need to learn respect for one another but also to not be a pushover.

CJhaughey

Thats what kids do, I see it in mine.
I remember my nephews of (7) slyly digging his little brother (4) who turned around and having a large mug in his hand used it on his brothers back with gusto.
Valuable lesson IMO.

guppy

Well, as long as you're there to see the cause and effect, I don't see a problem.

The issues start when one or other hurts the other, but the retaliator (is that a word?!) gets caught and ends up in trouble. I'm 6 years younger than my brother, and growing up, the only way I could "get back at him" was to hit/kick/headbutt him in the balls, however, my mother ALWAYS told me I was wrong, so my brother just continued my torment with no worries at all! I'm sure it was bad for him, but after chinese burns, kicks, slaps etc, I needed to hurt him back!

deisemum

I've got 8 siblings 7 of which are sisters and we used to knock 10 bells out of each other as long as it was out of view or hearing of our parents.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that boys can fight it out and then shortly after it's over with and forgotten where as girls tend not to forget. I can remember most people that ever crossed me as far back as primary school and that was in the 60's and 70's.

OP I think I'd have done something similar to you, I do think there are times when parents wade in, I know I've done that in the past. I could be in the next room and hear what sounds like WWII only to go tearing in and trying to pull them apart when they were wrestling with each other. They'd burst out laughing saying they were only playing but that's different to what happened with OP's children.

Ickle Magoo

I tend to let natural order prevail and then jump in before it breaks into an all out brawl. It's important for them to find out others don't appreciate being hit but if there is a significant size or weight advantage to the older child, then it's important that they don't learn to abuse that. :cool:

metrovelvet

Are you guys non interfering because they are siblings? Would you be like that if it was a friend?

Ickle Magoo

I have often sat and watched while kids wrestle over toys in toddler group while the parents watch on ready to step in if things get out of hand. There is no harm in trying to let them sort things out - it's quite satisfying watching your kid clock the group bully for trying to snatch a toy from them. I don't think having kids rolling on the floor ripping hair out & biting is good or advocate bullying at all but again, kids learning there are always consequences and pushing or hurting other small people tends to result in retaliation is not a bad lesson to learn.

parsi

ch750536 wrote: »

I have 2 boys, 3 & 5. They are very good boys with few problems, behave well and are best of friends.

Today the 3 yr old, through anger, hit the 5 yr old over the head with a toy (he couldn't make it do what his big brother could). This toy typically causes him to get angry for some reason (is a transformer) but the older lad loves them.

Me hearing a whack on the head run to the room to see the 5 year old rugby tackle him to the ground and proceed to land numerous punches on the 3 year old. I stand back for a moment to allow natural justice to take place, then seperate them. I explain why hitting people on the head is wrong and remove the toy.

Told my wife what happened on the phone and she is not happy with 'natural justice'. Having 3 brothers myself I remember numerous fights as a kid, normally ending with lessons being learnt.

Did I do the right thing?

Boys fight. It's life.

Keep an eye out in case it becomes "picking on" rather than "fighting your corner".

Same as adult life.

Nevyn

Which is well and good until they start school and physical altercations of any sort are not permitted.

Irish_wolf

I think that lads fight when they're younger cause they dont have the right linguistic or mental skills to sort out the problem with words.

Me and my brothers used to fight all the time when we were younger. We were all pretty close in age; 1 year between each of us, so it was never a case of a one sided match unless there was ganging up. Which happened yeah, but it was rare. Normally the person not in the fight would use the fight as his opportunity to have a go on the SNES or whatever console we had at the time. :pac:

At that age they're not gonna cause too much damage with theyre fists, just watch out for weapons. When I was 5 I hit my 4 year old brother with a bunch of keys and knocked out one of his teeth. I still feel a bit guilty about it. But it taught me a valuable lesson about weapons, besides we joke about it now so its alright.


There's a difference between fighting and bullying. Boys fight and remember it fondly years later, I say let em at it. :pac:

parsi

Yep.

But as brothers they'll hopefully keep their fights to home (unfortunately).

(Re: School it has been posited that this is all part of the emasculation of boys).

metrovelvet

You guys dont teach them not to hit?

Why is it all boys? The girls dont hit? Or do they get stopped?

My son has a brotherly relationship with his friend and they fight like brothers and look out for each other like brothers too. But their mothers limit the hitting. And in playschool they have to be separated sometimes. They dont restrict it to home. I dont know if i think its such a good idea toletthem grow up thinking this is how you solve disputes.

littlebug

I teach mine not to hit at all.

Ickle Magoo

littlebug wrote: »

I teach mine not to hit at all.

Oh so do I, but that doesn't mean they don't hit or that once hit they don't hit back...

littlebug

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Oh so do I, but that doesn't mean they don't hit or that once hit they don't hit back...

Maybe it's because my eldest is a real big softie whose natural tendency is not to hit back. When her brother was in that lashing out in frustration phase (2-3) he would have her in tears but she never hit back. It seemed better to teach him not to hit at all rather than to teach her to hit back. Now that said even the boy is a naturally fairly placid little individual- maybe if I had two real rough and tumble boys it would be different.

Ickle Magoo

I have a boy & a girl 15months apart & I regularly have to physically pull them apart, my sister & I used to do the same. I would love it if they never hit each other or my kids don't come home saying other kids pushed them or took something from them but that's life & a bit of rough (not very rough!) and tumble and learning that the ways of the world are none too gentle is a good thing, imo.

I have a friend whose kid cries whenever another child brushes past them or starts screaming when the other kids go mad and jostle around, their mother is really stressing out that the kid is going to have real problems in school, so I guess it's just trying to find a balance between sticking up for themselves but not bullies, being gentle but not precious.

littlebug

Yours are still quite young aren't they Ickle Magoo?

Yes I did (and do) worry about my daughter in that way too. Because she is so passive she tends to get put sitting beside the class bully to keep him quiet which doesn't seem fair. Her tendency is to try to talk the problem out but it does backfire occasionally. For example last week the class bully took her rubber... she was asking him for it back and he wouldn't give it so another girl grabbed it off him to give back to her and SHE got punched for her troubles. My girl got really upset about that. In general though he doesn't bother her.. she's actually one of the few people that the bully is unusually nice too. She's a talker and a mediator... I don't think that's a bad trait.

As of yet my boy hasn't encountered playground fights etc so I really don't know how he'd react. Though not an instinctual fighter he's got more of a stubborn streak than his sister so I think he'll be ok.

Yes our household is quite harmonious for the most part which is lovely but I agree it doesn't really prepare them for school (or life) rough and tumble... but it's just not their way and I can't change that.

gcgirl

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I have a boy & a girl 15months apart & I regularly have to physically pull them apart, my sister & I used to do the same. I would love it if they never hit each other or my kids don't come home saying other kids pushed them or took something from them but that's life & a bit of rough (not very rough!) and tumble and learning that the ways of the world are none too gentle is a good thing, imo.

I have a friend whose kid cries whenever another child brushes past them or starts screaming when the other kids go mad and jostle around, their mother is really stressing out that the kid is going to have real problems in school, so I guess it's just trying to find a balance between sticking up for themselves but not bullies, being gentle but not precious.

I also have a boy and girl 15 months apart i have an older girl who is 3 yrs older but the 2 that are closer in age one min their fine then the next its like jees think i need the UN in to peace keep, even if the boy says something that is not nice to me the youngest girls will go for him! But most brothers and sisters are like this,Its just a case of sibling rivalry.

Ickle Magoo

littlebug wrote: »

Yours are still quite young aren't they Ickle Magoo?

Yes I did (and do) worry about my daughter in that way too. Because she is so passive she tends to get put sitting beside the class bully to keep him quiet which doesn't seem fair. Her tendency is to try to talk the problem out but it does backfire occasionally. For example last week the class bully took her rubber... she was asking him for it back and he wouldn't give it so another girl grabbed it off him to give back to her and SHE got punched for her troubles. My girl got really upset about that. In general though he doesn't bother her.. she's actually one of the few people that the bully is unusually nice too. She's a talker and a mediator... I don't think that's a bad trait.

As of yet my boy hasn't encountered playground fights etc so I really don't know how he'd react. Though not an instinctual fighter he's got more of a stubborn streak than his sister so I think he'll be ok.

Yes our household is quite harmonious for the most part which is lovely but I agree it doesn't really prepare them for school (or life) rough and tumble... but it's just not their way and I can't change that.

Yeah, they are only wee ones, 3.5 & 5, one at Montessori, one at school. They are both expert mediators and negotiators but we also feel it's important that they can stick up for themselves (my wee man in particular was a preemie and is one of the smallest in his class) and the flip side of that is they also know that getting physical with others can result in getting into trouble, getting hit back, others not wanting to play with them, etc. Of course it depends on where we are and who it is with, they are neither taught to nor allowed to just attack other kids, I just don't always jump in when they are dealing with a child who is pushing or hitting them!

stovelid

Personally, I'd break it up as quickly as possible because of the age difference and I've no real desire to encourage gladiatorial contests, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Kids fight and it's probably not the worst thing to learn that hitting somebody can often trigger same.

tscul32

well my boys were 2 and 4 before christmas and have been fighting since no 2 was born. But they're also best friends. The oldest had been getting a bit slap happy recently so lots of time outs and banning of tv/computer/painting/baking - all the fun stuff (and he had to pick which one to give up) - have kinda nipped that one in the bud. The youger one has also realised that he's big and strong (only 4lbs between them) and is now fighting back. I usually allow one push back before I separate it with threats that they'll be sent to bed... Kinda looking forward to them being a bit older so I can yell 'sort it out yourselves'.

angeldaisy

I agree with a lot of what has been said here, my son who's almost 5 is very physical and loves rough play and has often been seen rugby tackling his cousin who's 13!
Problem is he has just started school and has a tendency to play rough with the other boys. I've spoken to him about it and told him he can't be physical at school that it isn't appropriate behaviour. He does try but I know he finds it difficult.
His teacher has called me in about an incident this week whereby my son punched another boy in the stomach, apparently the other boy hit my son first, but even so.. he knows its not right to hit, hes been told time and time again, thing is I don't think that this is the first time now and I really need to nip it in the bud.
Any Ideas? I've taken away his time spent on the tv, wii etc... anyone with any similar experiences?

Ickle Magoo

If he finds it difficult to stop himself using physical expression, can you teach him ways of doing so without involving anyone else - tackling a pillow or kicking a ball or something similar.

Perhaps learning a martial art which encourages self-discipline and self-control with regards to physical interaction might be worth looking into?

angeldaisy

i've thought about the martial arts thing, but I need to be careful as he has a bleeding disorder, hence the worry about the physical side of things getting out of hand. I have enrolled him in a speech and drama class to try to develop his social skills - figure he's better off talking his way out of trouble:rolleyes:
I definately have to do something...

Ickle Magoo

angeldaisy wrote: »

i've thought about the martial arts thing, but I need to be careful as he has a bleeding disorder, hence the worry about the physical side of things getting out of hand. I have enrolled him in a speech and drama class to try to develop his social skills - figure he's better off talking his way out of trouble:rolleyes:
I definately have to do something...

What about if he could try a different kind of reaction? I know a wee fella that shouts "DON'T HIT ME!!!", or "STOP ANNOYING ME!" or whatever at the top of his lungs. It gives the hitter/pest a fright as well as alerting teachers or whomever as to what's going on without resorting to telling tales. :cool:

angeldaisy

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

What about if he could try a different kind of reaction? I know a wee fella that shouts "DON'T HIT ME!!!", or "STOP ANNOYING ME!" or whatever at the top of his lungs. It gives the hitter/pest a fright as well as alerting teachers or whomever as to what's going on without resorting to telling tales. :cool:

problem is I have a horrible feeling he's the one that is the hitter/pest... :eek:

Ickle Magoo

angeldaisy wrote: »

problem is I have a horrible feeling he's the one that is the hitter/pest... :eek:

Ah gotcha, sorry.