Business being Attacked - Scared

LegacyUser

Hey guys, I really don't want to go into too much details as I don't want this to a moral issue.
A few years ago I put all my money into a business that caters to a certain market. I am supporting a young family and really rely on my business. Everything was fine until recent media coverage really started putting my business under pressure (what we sell is legal by the way) I just got off the phone with an owner of another business in the area that sells similiar products and hes warning me that our businesses are most likely being targetted by those who disagree with what we sell. Over the past 2 months things have really come to a head. When closing the shop one day one of my younger daughter's was verbally abused by a person who was against my business reducing her to tears. I've had threats made against me and my family by others who disagree with my shop and have recieved letters stating I am going to be attacked if I don't close up. I have gone to the gardai about this but they were less than sympathetic. I have also been intimidated a few times both by what I would deem normal people and those more involved in criminality for doing what I do.
In an ideal world I would simply quit but I can't, I have bills to pay and am sending my daughters to an education we could only of dreamt of a few years ago.
I am really finding it hard to cope, everyday I have threats shouted at me and the media coverage is making things worse. Today's attack on another business in the area has really frightened me as I live with my daughters and partner on my businesse's premises.
I am trying to hold on here but really falling apart. Don't know what to do.

ManOfMystery

I've a feeling I know what kind of business you're in judging by recent news. Whether people like it or not, you're not breaking the law and there are people out there doing far worse.

If you're 100% opposed to moving or closing your business, and the Gardi won't help, your only other option is to step up security. Make sure you report every single incident - no matter how small - so that it's all on record. Get better locks for both your home and business, and better alarms. If possible, always make sure no-one is opening or closing up alone. Have CCTV install (if not already) to make sure anything that happens is caught on tape.

antoinolachtnai

If you are not happy that the Garda are dealing with the threats made against you, then you need to write to the superintendent. I would be looking to meet him as soon as possible. You should make clear that your home is attached to the shop and under attack. You may also need to talk to a solicitor about this.

Without going into the rights and wrongs of it, it could be that there isn't much of a future in your business, and you will just have to cope with the reality. A stroke of a pen could shut the whole business down.

You also need to consider whether you and your industry are prepared to invest in making your case in the media and to politicians.

January

Without saying, it's very obvious what kind of business you're running.

Keep a log of every incident that happens, no matter how small. Descriptions of people making threats, times, dates and log every single one with the Gardai and get their name and badge number and write these down beside each incident.

I'd also agree with the previous poster about stepping up security. CCTV will be key here if anything ever does happen. Stronger locks on doors and possibly even a fire proof shutter if such things exist going by what happened this morning.

BaZmO*

Rightly or wrongly did you ever see this business as a long term thing? The media were always going to make a huge deal out of this.

Having said that, I'd being very surprised if the Gards didn't take your complaints very seriously after today's events.

LegacyUser

Hi all, thanks for the replies.
I do see the business as a long term business as it is only in the last 3 years that we started selling the products that have caused such outrage. Before then we sold lots of other things that never once came to the attention of the media.


I am in the process of getting CCTV installed and would really like to hire a security person but having talked with other business owners it was decided that we should refrain from employing door men type staff as the media would have a field day. It's also extremely costly.

I will start keeping notes of the inciddents.

"You also need to consider whether you and your industry are prepared to invest in making your case in the media and to politicians."


We do not want to go to the media about this as we feel it will be spun in such a way as to make our business look dangerous when in actuality until all this media coverage we never had any problems.

iguana

Assuming we're all on the same page, after today's incident you need to insist on the Gardaí taking this seriously. In some ways what happened today may be a blessing in disguise as you may be taken a lot more seriously by the Gardaí now. As has been said write down the full details, time and date of every threat or aggressive behaviour, including full descriptions of the people involved. If you do get a Garda who doesn't take you seriously speak go further up the chain. You aren't breaking any laws and deserve to run your business in peace and safety. I would suggest you keep your children away from the premises as much as you can, just for the sake of them not getting verbally abused if nothing else.

I also suggest you discreetly check your insurance. What type of financial protections are in place if an incident like today's occurs to you? Also be prepared for higher premiums when you renew, as they are likely to go up. The last thing is to have some sort of contingency in place business wise as to how your business would continue if this backlash results in these products becoming illegal. I'd be surprised if it did happen, but (not to sound like a loonie) you can never be sure of what sort of madcap policies governments in desire of a media diversion can sometimes come out with.

LegacyUser

Just because your business is "Legal" does not mean it is ethical. These businesses are doing a hell of a lot of damage to their "customers" and it seems they, and you, don't care.

What's happening now is as a result of what you are selling, like it or not, and being "legal" should not exempt you from criticism.

If someone oversteps the mark we have a system of Law and Justice to deal with him/her, and you should have adequate insurance to cover yourself.

You should, if you are serious about making a living for your family, consider a more ethical business.

Dark Phoenix

OP what horrifies me about this is that what you are doing is not illegal - what the people who are harrassing you are doing is! Its mad you would nearly get more sympathy if you had done something illegal

I am sick and tired of the media banging on about it they are like a dog with a bone - how many of these 'experts' ringing in fueling the fire have ever experienced the very items they want to ban :rolleyes: Its a recession - would they rather we had more people having to claim the dole than gainfully employed in a legal industry? Or would they rather people bought illegal items from people who are breaking the law? We are all adults if people are not breaking the law let people do what they want to do.

Get CCTV installed asap - inside and outside the store. Make sure neither of your daughters closes or opens up the shop alone for safety. Document every single thing that happens - write it all down even details of what the people looked liek the time and date as well. Go to the guards again and ask to meet with the superindendent its shocking that they have not taken your problem seriously so far - do they want to wait until something bad has happened or is this also to do with the industry you are in i'd be horrified to think so!

ManOfMystery

bananaRep wrote: »

Just because your business is "Legal" does not mean it is ethical. These businesses are doing a hell of a lot of damage to their "customers" and it seems they, and you, don't care.

What's happening now is as a result of what you are selling, like it or not, and being "legal" should not exempt you from criticism.

If someone oversteps the mark we have a system of Law and Justice to deal with him/her, and you should have adequate insurance to cover yourself.

You should, if you are serious about making a living for your family, consider a more ethical business.

The OP came here for advice, not to be attacked. He IS not breaking the law, I presume as a business owner he pays his taxes and he has every right to be supported by the law

Many businesses are not considered 'ethical' by the vast majority (Nike sweatshops? Petrol companies exploiting cheap labour in the middle east? Alcohol producers lobbying for 24/7 drinking laws?) ... but that does not give anyone a license to go out and attack those business owners. If they're legal, they're legal - whether you consider them ethical or not.

Dark Phoenix

ManOfMystery wrote: »

The OP came here for advice, not to be attacked. He IS not breaking the law, I presume as a business owner he pays his taxes and he has every right to be supported by the law

Many businesses are not considered 'ethical' by the vast majority (Nike sweatshops? Petrol companies exploiting cheap labour in the middle east? Alcohol producers lobbying for 24/7 drinking laws?) ... but that does not give anyone a license to go out and attack those business owners. If they're legal, they're legal - whether you consider them ethical or not.

well said. Besides an 'ethical' view on things will vary from person to person it does not give someone the right to judge or attack someone or their business just because they don't approve of what is a legal business.

event

no need for stuff like that, sorry

6th

Just a pre-emptive nod to remind people to remain respectful. Thank you.

meditraitor

bananaRep wrote: »

Just because your business is "Legal" does not mean it is ethical. These businesses are doing a hell of a lot of damage to their "customers" and it seems they, and you, don't care.

What's happening now is as a result of what you are selling, like it or not, and being "legal" should not exempt you from criticism.

If someone oversteps the mark we have a system of Law and Justice to deal with him/her, and you should have adequate insurance to cover yourself.

You should, if you are serious about making a living for your family, consider a more ethical business.

I think you misunderstand ethics comrade, there is nothing ethically wrong with selling something that has not proven to be harmfull. There is nothing morally wrong opening up a business to feed your family...There is however something morally/ethically wrong with false information even when it is out of ignorance.

Anyway OP sorry to here you problems and as a couple of posters have pointed out the guards are your best option now, keep a note of every incident and be carefull. There are a lot of joe duffy nuts out there.

cafecolour

I've had a bottle thrown at my head, been screamed abuse at, had multiple touch-and-go situations, and had co-workers physically attacked - all working as night porter/resident barman in a hotel bar (people especially don't like it when you tell them there's no more drink - or their friends who aren't staying in the hotel can't come in).

Alcohol is easily the worst of the 'legal' drugs.

I don't want to sound unsympathetic - but some jobs here just involve a lot of abuse and some frightening situations - most of them involving the public and drugs (legal or illegal). After about a year and a half in the job, I couldn't take any more and left. But coworkers have been there for years and have just become used to it. It does become easier as you deal with more situations and learn to handle them.

Basically you either try and sell the shop (and find a different line of work). Or you do your best to take precautions and not let it get to you. In your situation, since you say it's primarily the media attention, the media will probably jump to a different topic soon and the furor may die down.

PopUp

I agree with all posters who say you should take every incident to the Guards and after what's happened today you will be taken seriously.

But look. Take these incidents as a warning as well. The writing may be on the wall for your business. As a previous poster said - one stroke of the lawmaker's pens and you are completely out of business. I'm not saying it's right - I'm just warning you that it's a very real possibility. Never underestimate politicians' ability to jump on a bandwagon, however pointless.

You say you are totally tied to this business. Start investigating other options. You may be forced to before long.

Also another good reason to record EVERY incident however minor is that if the worst should happen insurance companies will be watching shops like yours and like the one that burned down like hawks. From their perspective, they will be determined to find out if some business owners try arson as a means of getting out from a business going under. Don't underestimate insurance companies any more than polticians - they will do everything they can to avoid paying out. Record EVERYTHING.

ChocolateRamses

bananaRep wrote: »

Just because your business is "Legal" does not mean it is ethical. These businesses are doing a hell of a lot of damage to their "customers" and it seems they, and you, don't care.

What's happening now is as a result of what you are selling, like it or not, and being "legal" should not exempt you from criticism.

If someone oversteps the mark we have a system of Law and Justice to deal with him/her, and you should have adequate insurance to cover yourself.

You should, if you are serious about making a living for your family, consider a more ethical business.

I love these kinds of self-righteous posts from people who don't even have the courage to post under a registered name.

Like it or not the only reason certain "substances" (since we all seem to be on the same page), are outlawed is because a certain proportion of people can't be relied on to be responsible for themselves. Consequently there are blanket bans on all kinds of things, with the result that these go underground where people still indulge, but now indulge with substance of god-knows-what quality.

Legalisation would put the power/responsibility back into the individuals hands, and would ensure product of uniform quality.

Ultimately if you're fool enough to abuse something you will suffer for it, the OP doesn't deserve to be assaulted for acting completely within the law, whether anyone else thinks it's "moral" or not.

OP I think Iguanas post is the best so far in terms of advice.

Wagon

bananaRep wrote: »

Just because your business is "Legal" does not mean it is ethical. These businesses are doing a hell of a lot of damage to their "customers" and it seems they, and you, don't care.

What's happening now is as a result of what you are selling, like it or not, and being "legal" should not exempt you from criticism.

If someone oversteps the mark we have a system of Law and Justice to deal with him/her, and you should have adequate insurance to cover yourself.

You should, if you are serious about making a living for your family, consider a more ethical business.

He isn't forcing down people's throats. They make the decision to buy the stuff he sells. Simple as that. I don't see anything wrong with it.

OP, record the incidents, go back to the guards and remind them that you are a taxpayer so you have every right to be protected as much as someone who owns a shoe shop. They still don't listen, go to the superintendent as someone suggested. Makes me sick to think that people who are doing the stuff that's illegal (attacks, threats etc...) are getting away with it. Hopefully this'll die down soon after the media get bored.

DigiGal

Its so sad when people attack businesses etc... its all well to mouth off but nobody thinks of the people involved and their families and lives.

You are in my prayers OP.

LegacyUser

I'd say it'll get worse for these type of businesses 'cos the purveyors of illegal substances are, allegedly, miffed that their trade is dropping because of the alternative wares?

AnonMous

Dark Phoenix wrote: »

OP what horrifies me about this is that what you are doing is not illegal - what the people who are harrassing you are doing is!

I'd imagine that the people harrassing him are dealers of illegal drugs whose trade has died somewhat as a result of these new products being available at a cheaper price.

That is not the issue however. I can't advise any more than what everyone else has offered, so all i'll say is stay safe Op, and be careful.

6th

There are posts that are not getting approved because they are nothing but attacks despite mod warnings

LegacyUser

6th wrote: »

There are posts that are not getting approved because they are nothing but attacks despite mod warnings

or they disagree with the sympathy for someone who knowingly sells poison to kids and then whines when people do not like it

scaredbusiness

scaredbusiness wrote: »

Hey guys, I really don't want to go into too much details as I don't want this to a moral issue.
A few years ago I put all my money into a business that caters to a certain market. I am supporting a young family and really rely on my business. Everything was fine until recent media coverage really started putting my business under pressure (what we sell is legal by the way) I just got off the phone with an owner of another business in the area that sells similiar products and hes warning me that our businesses are most likely being targetted by those who disagree with what we sell. Over the past 2 months things have really come to a head. When closing the shop one day one of my younger daughter's was verbally abused by a person who was against my business reducing her to tears. I've had threats made against me and my family by others who disagree with my shop and have recieved letters stating I am going to be attacked if I don't close up. I have gone to the gardai about this but they were less than sympathetic. I have also been intimidated a few times both by what I would deem normal people and those more involved in criminality for doing what I do.
In an ideal world I would simply quit but I can't, I have bills to pay and am sending my daughters to an education we could only of dreamt of a few years ago.
I am really finding it hard to cope, everyday I have threats shouted at me and the media coverage is making things worse. Today's attack on another business in the area has really frightened me as I live with my daughters and partner on my businesse's premises.
I am trying to hold on here but really falling apart. Don't know what to do.

Just admit you operate a head shop.Nothing wrong with it,its not a bad word.

LegacyUser

I walked past the site of the atrocity tonight. I was really surprised. I hadn't seen a threat to your business anywhere.

I'd like to fill you in.

I'm 35 years old.

When I was 22/23/24 I worked in the coffee shops of amsterdam. Of recent years, my man has hit hard times because he's not european and I'm still legally married to someone else. So, in the recession, he has become a producer. What I'm trying to say is that we know drugs.

We don't like what you are doing. You are selling drugs in a way that you pretend you are not accountable for them. You sell fake hash - grass - coke - speed - e - without telling people what they are, and what chemicals are used to make the buzz. Alot of what you sell is not nice.

Of course, I know you are just a man looking after your family. But even in the drugs business, there are some of us who don't sell harm, which is not an easy thing to say.

As a drug user, I'm glad in one way to see the end of the Irish smart shops. You could have had a better career and business if you'd listened less to the local stoner you employed behind your counter and more to what people want - basic consumer values, like what I'm taking won't hurt me and someone is staking their profession/house on this sheeeeeet.

But I know its a learning process and I'm sure you don't mean harm. Best of luck with the business.

Magenta

OP I feel very sorry for you. I am pretty sure I know what business you are in.
I would hope that all this media rubbish blows over soon. There was a time when sex shops would have gotten the same reception in Ireland and now they are everywhere.
You are doing nothing illegal and if anything you are an outlet for people who may not want to spend their money in the illegal underground market.
I wish the people who campaign against you would spend their time on something else. You are not forcing your products on anyone, they walk in and buy it themselves.

6th

nodrugs wrote: »

or they disagree with the sympathy for someone who knowingly sells poison to kids and then whines when people do not like it

No, what we dont allow is name calling. If people can make a point and remain civil then theres not a problem. If you have an issue then feel free to follow the correct procedure to air your grievences. PM the mods, if not happy with the response then escalate to Cmod. If still not happy then take it here.

Magenta

saphireandsteel wrote: »

When I was 22/23/24 I worked in the coffee shops of amsterdam. Of recent years, my man has hit hard times because he's not european and I'm still legally married to someone else. So, in the recession, he has become a producer. What I'm trying to say is that we know drugs.
We don't like what you are doing...Alot of what you sell is not nice.

You don't like what the OP is doing because it takes a dent out of your illegal profits. Do Revenue know about your little business? Because they sure know about the OP's since what he is doing is above board and legal.

Magenta

nodrugs wrote: »

or they disagree with the sympathy for someone who knowingly sells poison to kids and then whines when people do not like it

How do you feel about every shop in the country that sells alcohol and cigarettes?

sunshiner

What people think about his shop has nothing to do with the fact that this poor man has been threatened with bodily harm,his daughters have and his customers.Nothing in the world should be taken more seriously than this!

I Would put a sign up saying smile your on cctv, then i would actively take these peoples pictures,get a video camera and film these peoples behavior.
Document the events,Ring the guards,make statements if you feel that it isnt being taken seriously.get the ombudsman involved,ask for the case number and all that.Mention about a solicitor etc

good luck i hope it all dies down shortly and it is the most ridiculous media frenzy ive seen in a long time.Its the likes of small business people keeping the country going,paying taxes,employment and so on.

Also id try and get the other shops in your business together and form a type of group,try and agree some type of regulations,ideas and create a support network for yourselves.

Shayman

saphireandsteel wrote: »

So, in the recession, he has become a producer. What I'm trying to say is that we know drugs.

We don't like what you are doing. You are selling drugs in a way that you pretend you are not accountable for them. You sell fake hash - grass - coke - speed - e - without telling people what they are, and what chemicals are used to make the buzz. Alot of what you sell is not nice.

I think I've seen it all now. The drug dealers are unhappy at the quality of the (for now) legitimate man's wares. The kettle callin' the pot???

Sorry Mods. I didn't mean to offend the poor drug 'producer'. But, hey, he should know the recession affects us all. Sadly some of us have had competition in our businesses for years but we had to deal with it LEGALLY. Anyway the drug 'producers' must have made a fortune over the years so should have a good stash of cash to fall back on? And, if you haven't why not go to the County Enterprise board and get a grant? They wouldn't help my business 'cos it didn't fit their criteria (they don't support retail!) but according to their website manufacture/production and export is within their remit so you're laughin! Glad to see my taxes are put to good use!!;)

Brian Capture

legal highs will never compare to the buzz off good cannabis or strong grass.

On that basis alone, head shops are bullsh*t.

Sorry for your trouble, OP.

sunshiner

i dont see how some of these posts are being helpful to the OP's problem.

Shayman

OK. The best only thing to do is hire security just like other business that sell harmful substances (Shops, pubs, off licences) do.

PK2008

Id say do what the old 'sex shops' used to do- low key advertising, non prominent location, out of sight type of approach.

Just like those shops, people have their own moral judgements and while you might have a legal 'right' to set up shop wherever you want business is business and if your business is suffering then you need to do something about it, remember all the publicity over Ann Summers opening on O'Connell street??

Its not about moral right or wrong its about being business smart- of course it will hurt your marketing but customers for these types of products will always seek them out. Putting it in the face of the general public just results in what your currently experiencing but the public can be fickle aswell- stop shoving it in their face and they wont care.

Once theres no legal issues the only way to judge 'right' and 'wrong' in business is your bottom line.

dudara

sunshiner wrote: »

i dont see how some of these posts are being helpful to the OP's problem.

sunshiner, if you feel that posts are not being helpful or useful, then please use the "Report Post" button located to the left of the post

dudara

thedeadp0et

Another one has been hit last night - went up in flames too, the Happy Hippy on North Frederick Street to be precise. I'm not sure how severe the damage is at this stage, just heard a news bulletin and read a small article in newspaper.

This is terrible - and certainly too much of a coincidence for it to have been an accident.

Magenta

thedeadp0et wrote: »

Another one has been hit last night - went up in flames too, the Happy Hippy on North Frederick Street to be precise. I'm not sure how severe the damage is at this stage, just heard a news bulletin and read a small article in newspaper.

This is terrible - and certainly too much of a coincidence for it to have been an accident.

That's freaking disgraceful. I reckon the culprits are people whose profits are being dented by the head shops i.e. drug dealers.

tbh

Magenta wrote: »

How do you feel about every shop in the country that sells alcohol and cigarettes?

alcohol and cigarettes are legal for human consumption, and are sold as such. The OP is selling products marked "not for human consumption" that he knows full well are ARE "for human consumption". The are marked "not for human consumption" so that, if someone has a bad reaction after taking them, the OP can wash his hands and walk away.

While I would never condone someone taking the law into their own hands, I suspect this aspect of his business is seen as dishonest by some.

OP, why not stop selling the "bath salts" and just concentrate on the bongs and papers and mats?

Because that's not where the money is, right?

If you want to keep making the money, you have to keep paying the price. The price is that some people don't like what you're doing. Is it worth it? Only you can answer.

dudara

OK posters, a second attack on another head shop is deplorable, it really is, but let's stick to the Personal Issue at hand here.

dudara

Miaireland

I don't know if it is a realistic option but would you consider hiring a security firm for a few weeks to watch your premises.

ppink

scaredbusiness wrote: »

Hey guys, I really don't want to go into too much details as I don't want this to a moral issue.
A few years ago I put all my money into a business that caters to a certain market. I am supporting a young family and really rely on my business. Everything was fine until recent media coverage really started putting my business under pressure (what we sell is legal by the way) I just got off the phone with an owner of another business in the area that sells similiar products and hes warning me that our businesses are most likely being targetted by those who disagree with what we sell. Over the past 2 months things have really come to a head. When closing the shop one day one of my younger daughter's was verbally abused by a person who was against my business reducing her to tears. I've had threats made against me and my family by others who disagree with my shop and have recieved letters stating I am going to be attacked if I don't close up. I have gone to the gardai about this but they were less than sympathetic. I have also been intimidated a few times both by what I would deem normal people and those more involved in criminality for doing what I do.
In an ideal world I would simply quit but I can't, I have bills to pay and am sending my daughters to an education we could only of dreamt of a few years ago.
I am really finding it hard to cope, everyday I have threats shouted at me and the media coverage is making things worse. Today's attack on another business in the area has really frightened me as I live with my daughters and partner on my businesse's premises.
I am trying to hold on here but really falling apart. Don't know what to do.

Like it or not it is a moral issue.

It is a simple choice for you as it is for the rest of us.......

Let me ask you would you be happy for your daughters to be consuming products from your premises?

You have few options as i see it.......get security or change your product base are the only that spring to mind.
I would imagine the heat from this will not go away especially with some docs and hospitals commenting on products and the increase in mental health issues which they are linking

bildo

Do the guards and the state not have a "moral" duty to protect at registered, taxpaying business and a family home when it is under threat?
Do the consenting adults who are customers of OPs shop instead of the type of drugdealing scum who are probaly responsible for the threats and recent arson attacks not have a "moral" right to do so in relative safety?
It's clear there is a bigger picture here

stovelid

Perhaps you and friends take turns to watch over the shop until this thing blows over?

LegacyUser

Hey guys, I've been taking the advice on board.
I suppose I should admit at this point what most already know, it is indeed a headshop.
After the second attack yesterday I am considering looking into fire retardant shutters to add to our recently installed CCTV. The Gardai have stated they have no reason to believe any headshops are being specifically targetted in a coordinated campaign so won't be adding patrols around our shop. My friend spotted a man the other day offering a local kid some money to try go in and buy legal highs from me! I never sell to minors and it seems theres a journalist hanging around who is trying to get a story.. its a disgrace.
I don't want to get into the morality surrounding the whole issue but theres been questions asked. Firstly would I allow my daughters to take these drugs? No, but then again I wouldn't allow them to take alcohol either. If they were 18 I would have no problem with them taking them if they were responsible. We don't sell mephedrone as we think its a dangerous drug the others however are merely slightly altered chemical structures of drugs whose effects are known. I have tried them myself but only to see what I was selling.
We make sure all our customers are informed and we don't sell to people severely intoxicated at the time of purchase, anyone under 18 or anyone who doesn't have the mental capacity to take these drugs responsibly.

I have talked to my partner and we are sticking this out. We don't see a problem with what we sell. I would of course much prefer however if our business was regulated by the government but thats unlikely to happen.
We have been recieving comments and letters of support recently which is encouraging. No trouble in the last few days though whenever we see people hanging around outside I am always terrified were going to be petrol bombed