New Biker Coming to Terms with Negligent Cars

Co45

New Biker, some of my experiences so far

I've had a van, without warning, pull out into my lane causing me to have to slam on my brakes. I was inches from slamming into the back of him.

Cars are regularly pulling out onto the road when I have right of way. A couple of times I've had to swerve to avoid them.

When overtaking in traffic I have lost count of the amount of times a car will suddenly pull out to do a U turn or take a right, as always, without indicators.

Last night a taxi driver reversed blindly out onto a road I was driving down. I was a metre away from ending up over my handle bars.


Now I know bikes are harder for drivers to spot but ffs.
Anyone else have any near misses due to negligent drivers?

Idleater

I'd recommend some training if this is happening to you a lot.

Generally these potential incidents can be spotted early and avoided by taking appropriate pre-emptive measures.

It might not be your driving at all that needs to be corrected, perhaps it is positioning or just learning how to detect hazards.

Having said that, yes, it does tend to happen, but I found the RoSPA training that I have done of benefit in this regard.

Co45

nereid wrote: »

I'd recommend some training if this is happening to you a lot.

Generally these potential incidents can be spotted early and avoided by taking appropriate pre-emptive measures.

It might not be your driving at all that needs to be corrected, perhaps it is positioning or just learning how to detect hazards.

Having said that, yes, it does tend to happen, but I found the RoSPA training that I have done of benefit in this regard.

I don't know really. No amount of training can prepare you for a van suddenly pulling out into your lane without indicators or cars in traffic suddenly deciding to pull out without indicators. In regards right of way granted I could probably go a little slower as maybe cars don't realise they don't have time to make the turn.

Co45

Co45 wrote: »

When overtaking in traffic I have lost count of the amount of times a car will suddenly pull out to do a U turn or take a right, as always, without indicators.

Sounds like you overtake quite a bit in traffic, why ? Overtaking in traffic approaching right turns is not too clever really.

stevoslice

do you usually have your lights switched on? if not you should, would increase your visibilty 100 fold.

bladespin

RoverJames wrote: »

Sounds like you overtake quite a bit in traffic, why ? Overtaking in traffic approaching right turns is not too clever really.

You don't have to be filtering towards a right turn for some blind moron to decide they can pull a U turn in the middle of the road.


Unfortunately, it's par for the course of riding and driving in this country, always ride defensively and be vigilant, assume every other road user is incompetant.

KamiKazi

Just ride as if everyone other motorist is out to kill you and you'll be fine.

And get yourself a decent set of boots, great for removing the wing mirrors that a lot of drivers never use anyway

cantdecide

It's funny how the people who are certain training is of no benefit are the people who haven't had it. You don't know half what the rospa training will teach you. You couldn't. It's ESPECIALLY important when you commute/ do lots of urban driving.

It has saved my ass on many occasions.

Co45

cantdecide wrote: »

It's funny how the people who are certain training is of no benefit are the people who haven't had it. You don't know half what the rospa training will teach you. You couldn't. It's ESPECIALLY important when you commute/ do lots of urban driving.

It has saved my ass on many occasions.

Picked me up wrong. I'm not saying its of no benefit just saying in the instances I listed above no training could of warned me that a driver would suddenly pull out and do a U-Turn without indicating or checking mirrors etc.

Pigeon Reaper

Get some training as it will help you avoid some of these situations as you'll see them developing. When on a bike it doesn't really matter if you have right of way or not as you're alot squishier than most other things on the road. Technically you may be right but it won't matter to you afterwards.

seamus

Co45 wrote: »

Picked me up wrong. I'm not saying its of no benefit just saying in the instances I listed above no training could of warned me that a driver would suddenly pull out and do a U-Turn without indicating or checking mirrors etc.

No, but training will teach you how to anticipate and handle the situation when it arises without panicking or flying into a rage.

You need to ride at all times with the assumption that you are the invisible man on an invisible bike. Every single car waiting to turn into or out of a road, house, petrol station, shop, has not seen you and is likely to pull out across your path.

When you're overtaking stationery traffic, if you're moving faster than 30km/h, you're going waaay too fast. I see guys doing 50 or 60km/h overtaking lines of traffic and that's suicidal. Bikes are great for overtaking lines of traffic, but that doesn't mean you have to do it quickly - any movement at all is better than sitting in traffic.

Dawn and dusk are the most dangerous times - the "half-light" conditions cause optical difficulties and reduce drivers' (and your!) ability to distinguish distinct objects from the background. Unfortunately at present, dawn and dusk are roughly around the same time that most of us are travelling to and from work, so at the moment you need to be super careful. Using your full beams at dusk should make you stand out a bit more without blinding the traffic, but use it carefully. If it's too dark, you'll blind people.

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

You don't have to be filtering towards a right turn for some blind moron to decide they can pull a U turn in the middle of the road.

No but for someone to take a right I would guess there is a right there

Co45

RoverJames wrote: »

No but for someone to take a right I would guess there is a right there

My problem is when the right is a good bit down the road, they're in traffic and decide to pull out to drive down the opposite side of the road because they'res no oncoming traffic to take the right. With no indicators or anything.

bladespin

RoverJames wrote: »

No but for someone to take a right I would guess there is a right there

You don't need a right turn to pull a Uwey, unless your driving a barge that is :P

KamiKazi

bladespin wrote: »

You don't need a right turn to pull a Uwey, unless your driving a barge that is :P

Or a Goldwing

Idleater

Co45 wrote: »

My problem is when the right is a good bit down the road, they're in traffic and decide to pull out to drive down the opposite side of the road because they'res no oncoming traffic to take the right. With no indicators or anything.

Correct positioning behind other vehicles allows you to adjust your course in sufficient if they do decide to do something "random" in front of you.

What I mean by this is, if you find yourself cursing at someone for doing a uturn in front of you causing you to jamm on the brakes, then consider if you had been 10 meters further back and been able to nip down their inside without braking.

If as you say, they are "a good bit down the road" then why are you so concerned that they indicate or not. Indicating is a signal of intent it does not confer right of way. Therefore it is only useful if it provides information to other road users. There are plenty of times I don't indicate when performing a manouver. "if a tree falls in a wood with no one around does it make a sound"???

There is obviously a trade off between space given behind someone and space into which someone will drive from for example a side road, but you understand my point?

Max Headroom

Co45 wrote: »

My problem is when the right is a good bit down the road, they're in traffic and decide to pull out to drive down the opposite side of the road because they'res no oncoming traffic to take the right. With no indicators or anything.

You mean theyre doing exactly what you are doing....:p


I'm not having a go at ya....but this is a practice i see more of these days..especially at rush hour...if theres a median strip right turners will always jump out and drive down the opposite side if it saves the 20secs of queuing...just expect it to happen...

I actually witnessed a Garda car having to pull over to the left kerb to let a woman who was doing this at the Goat Grill...they just continued up the road...although its illegal to drive on the strip i think its a free for all..so dont expect anything to be done soon..;)

MikeC101

cantdecide wrote: »

It's funny how the people who are certain training is of no benefit are the people who haven't had it. You don't know half what the rospa training will teach you. You couldn't. It's ESPECIALLY important when you commute/ do lots of urban driving.

It has saved my ass on many occasions.

Second this.

I've been on bikes for a year or two, thought I was fairly decent, but recently had a couple of lessons and couldn't believe the difference it made to me. Some of it is very minor stuff I wouldn't have thought of myself, some basic changes in positioning mostly, and it makes a world of difference.

randomway

I am not one to judge, but it sounds like you are doing something wrong to have so many near misses.

Wear a hi vis vest, turn on the lights, slow down and keep as much distance from cars as you can... if you need to overtake a van, do it fast, don't hang around in the blind spots. If you are overtaking stationary traffic and nothing is coming the other way, go well over in the opposite lane, so that there is more time and space to react if someone jumps off the queue.

Keep it lit!

Tigger

turn on yer beams remove the baffel from yer exhaust and act like they are tryiong to get you

cynder

I being a female driver, heard a motor bike before i saw it pull up behind me at the exit of a round-about. i knew (as all bikers do) that he was going to overtake me so i continued doing the speed limit and got as close to the curb as i could (without hitting it) so the biker could over take me without crossing over the centre white line.

and he thanked me with a thumbs up.

cheers to the biker as many car drivers dont thank you for the nice things you do.

Ive never driven a bike myself but my family all has bikes. my mother was even in the hells angels!!!!!! (some 40 years ago)

monkeypants

My Da has ridden bikes on roads and track for over fifty years now and he's a near-perfect model of defensive riding. As has been said before on this thread, assume that everyone else is out to get you. It may sound paranoid, but it doesn't make it less true. Same goes for driving a car.

With experience, you will start to sense dodgy manoeuvers before they happen. I can't really explain it better than that.

CrazyRabbit

Regardless of what type of vehicle you drive, you will never be able to fully predict the actions of other drivers or pedestrians. But you can reduce the risk of a collision.

Some simple guidelines.

Filtering
If filtering, do so at a fairly low speed. This gives other people more time to see you coming, and will lessen the 'ouch' factor should there be an accident. It'll only cost you a few extra seconds driving, so it's worth it.

Observation
Be observant for potential dangers ahead/around you. If there is a long line of slow moving traffic, it's much more likely for someone to do a u-turn without warning so they can take another route. In places where there are blind junctions, obstructed views etc, slow down and expect something to pop out. Main junctions with right hand turns can tempt car drivers to filter to the top of the queue unexpectedly.

Risk
Always try to consider your risk level. Take into account the road conditions, weather, your speed, other drivers speed, your view of the roads/paths, time of day etc. Adjust your driving to the level of risk.
Always always remember that you are extremely vulnerable on a bike.

EDIT: As monkeypants implied above...there is no substitute for experience. I just 'know' when I see some cars that they are careless drivers and I give them plenty of room.

anonymousjunkie

monkeypants wrote: »

With experience, you will start to sense dodgy manoeuvers before they happen. I can't really explain it better than that.

Yup, your right, its kinda like a 'spidey sense', definately comes with experience.

Tigger

anonymousjunkie wrote: »

Yup, your right, its kinda like a 'spidey sense', definately comes with experience.

its the bikers third eye

reece

I commute 10k daily pretty much through urban traffic so have honed my spidey sense too. One of the things that has me most paranoid is the speed of which a cager can change lane / pull out / in on you (defensive dublin driving) so the best thing to do is anticipate the muppets move and give yourself enough of an 'out' to avoid eating tarmac

Max Headroom

UN-FCUKIN- BELIEVABLE...in the light of this thread heres what i just witnessed...coming through Roebuck Rd ..approaching red traffic light at Bird avenue...i'm the last car of about 5...in my mirror i see a single headlight..as i gets closer he pulls into the cycle lane (no biggy as its probably a moped..WRONG..its a twat on a Harley..drives up the lane where he clips the mirror on one of the cars stopped, tossing him and bike firstly into the car and then onto the path.....no injuries but but a nasty gash in the car and broken mirror....words fail me..
There was absolutely no reason for him not to over take the cars on the right as we were all stopped....
Hope he doesnt come on here looking for sympathy....:mad:

Fiskar

Once came on a situation where I and the biker ahead of me were flitering at slow speed in the city, when a secondary school pupil weaved in and out into the path of the biker ahead of me. Both collided and went off their respective bikes, luckily there was no oncoming car / van or they were have been cream crackered.
Stayed put to see if biker wanted a witness as cyclist was wearing an IPOD, but pissed off as soon as the biker removed his helmet. Yep, he too was wearing an IPOD.

As a biker you have to
Risk assess every move, speed, use your observation, concentrate and look ahead in the road, stay away from manouvres near junctions, expect the unexpected and keep breathing fresh air !

hobochris

Co45 wrote: »

Picked me up wrong. I'm not saying its of no benefit just saying in the instances I listed above no training could of warned me that a driver would suddenly pull out and do a U-Turn without indicating or checking mirrors etc.

Actually you'd be surprised what you'll learn in training.a big Part of my training was teaching me what to look out for, 90% of the time you can predict what a vehicle is going to do by the road position and how the vehicle is being driven.

KamiKazi

Fiskar wrote: »

Once came on a situation where I and the biker ahead of me were flitering at slow speed in the city, when a secondary school pupil weaved in and out into the path of the biker ahead of me. Both collided and went off their respective bikes, luckily there was no oncoming car / van or they were have been cream crackered.
Stayed put to see if biker wanted a witness as cyclist was wearing an IPOD, but pissed off as soon as the biker removed his helmet. Yep, he too was wearing an IPOD.

As a biker you have to
Risk assess every move, speed, use your observation, concentrate and look ahead in the road, stay away from manouvres near junctions, expect the unexpected and keep breathing fresh air !

Your point?

Are you suggesting that every biker should be completely ear plug / ipod-less in hope that they may hear the unseen cyclist whizzing towards them?

Cop on FFS.

Max Headroom

I thought it was illegal to wear in-ear headphones/sets on or in a motorised vehicle....not including helmet speakers...have the rules changed.??...i wear earplugs myself but they dont play music.....

Idleater

Max Headroom wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to wear in-ear headphones/sets on or in a motorised vehicle....not including helmet speakers...have the rules changed.??...i wear earplugs myself but they dont play music.....

huh? Could you point to any specific rule that defines such a specialist wording? If you search the statute book, the most closely resembling section is that covering Hands Free devices.

Secondly, what do you mean by 'music'? Is humming a tune music? I do that all the time. Is it okay to listen to vocals only but once the backing track starts you have to press stop?

I have had lessons (normal and RoSPA) over in ear headphones. I have them specifically moulded with the monitors in them.

If it is of any use to you, you actually can listen at a lower volume using them because they are tuned to remove wind and road noise as opposed to traffic noise.

Max Headroom

It was a simple question..no need to go off on one..:rolleyes:

Back in the 80s i was into touring bikes..i fitted a radio into my Vetter fairing (remember them..:o)...i also went to the trouble of fitting headphones in my lid...i was stopped once and the garda told me it was illegal in the lid , ok on the bike speakers though.....havent looked into it since..hence the question...

CrazyRabbit

Max Headroom wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to wear in-ear headphones/sets on or in a motorised vehicle....not including helmet speakers...have the rules changed.??...i wear earplugs myself but they dont play music.....

Well during the driving test, you get in-ear headphones and a receiver unit so you can take directions from the examiner. So I doubt it's illegal.

Max Headroom

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Well during the driving test, you get in-ear headphones and a receiver unit so you can take directions from the examiner. So I doubt it's illegal.

LookBehindYou

Max Headroom wrote: »

I thought it was illegal to wear in-ear headphones/sets on or in a motorised vehicle....not including helmet speakers...have the rules changed.??...i wear earplugs myself but they dont play music.....

Its not illegal.

For safety, its not advisable to be listening to music while riding.

Fiskar

Wear ear plugs myself at all times, it filters out the noises I need to hear, it helps me concentrate as well as protect my hearing. you cannot keep your concentration on a bike listening to the news at 5 wearing an ipod.
that is what my point was in relation to ipod users on motorbikes.

P.C.

Fiskar wrote: »

Wear ear plugs myself at all times, it filters out the noises I need to hear, it helps me concentrate as well as protect my hearing. you cannot keep your concentration on a bike listening to the news at 5 wearing an ipod.
that is what my point was in relation to ipod users on motorbikes.

I disagree.

I don't listen to the 'news at 5' - I hear it.
I will not remember a word that was said, unless I am stoped at the lights, and actually listining.
I also will not remember the songs that are playing, but while they are playing, I will hear them.

I talk to myself on the bike sometimes - and I mean out loud.
Can be quite embarasing when I am stoped at the lights, and my visor is up, and the pedestrians hear me.

Max Headroom

P.C. wrote: »

I disagree.

I don't listen to the 'news at 5' - I hear it.
I will not remember a word that was said, unless I am stoped at the lights, and actually listining.
I also will not remember the songs that are playing, but while they are playing, I will hear them.

I talk to myself on the bike sometimes - and I mean out loud.
Can be quite embarasing when I am stoped at the lights, and my visor is up, and the pedestrians hear me.

I think ya need help mate........................:D

KamiKazi

Max Headroom wrote: »

I think ya need help mate........................:D

That's nothing new

Anyway I find music helps me concentrate on the road, without I music I'd start thinking about whatever and drift off, few tunes keep me focused on the road.

Idleater

Fiskar wrote: »

you cannot keep your concentration on a bike listening to the news at 5 wearing an ipod.
that is what my point was in relation to ipod users on motorbikes.

But it's okay to listen to the "news at 5" while sitting in a car?

Listening to speech is different to taking part in a phone conversation.

There is a big difference between requiring mental effort to drive and maintain a conversation (where the other party is not able to see the circumstances where you are in) and being able to ignore some speech over headphones / speakers because there is something more important on the road in front of you.

I'll reiterate my point said previously, at what point to you draw the line between music and speech? Johnny Cash? Nina Simone? Drive Time with a musical article?

It is silly seeking legislation or "banning" certain things because they seem dangerous. In reality we all need to decide for ourselves what is dangerous under each and every circumstance. Some days I listen to music, most I do not.

LookBehindYou

Riding a bike requires 100% focus to stay alive.
If someone chooses to listen to an ipod while riding,, its their decision.
I can decide what is best for myself, and that means : no music while i ride.
It allows me to listen to the sound of my bike for revs,unusual noises,surrounding sounds, which would alert me quicker to any danger if something does not sound as it should.

Fiskar

LookBehindYou wrote: »

Riding a bike requires 100% focus to stay alive.
If someone chooses to listen to an ipod while riding,, its their decision.
I can decide what is best for myself, and that means : no music while i ride.
It allows me to listen to the sound of my bike for revs,unusual noises,surrounding sounds, which would alert me quicker to any danger if something does not sound as it should.

+1

P.C.

Max Headroom wrote: »

I think ya need help mate........................:D

KamiKazi wrote: »

That's nothing new

It is easy for you to say that - but look at it from my side...

I have tried to find help, but... once I start telling them my problems, they all of a sudden have something else to do.

Now, back to the problem at hand...

scully74

Co45 wrote: »

New Biker, some of my experiences so far

I've had a van, without warning, pull out into my lane causing me to have to slam on my brakes. I was inches from slamming into the back of him.

Cars are regularly pulling out onto the road when I have right of way. A couple of times I've had to swerve to avoid them.

When overtaking in traffic I have lost count of the amount of times a car will suddenly pull out to do a U turn or take a right, as always, without indicators.

Last night a taxi driver reversed blindly out onto a road I was driving down. I was a metre away from ending up over my handle bars.


Now I know bikes are harder for drivers to spot but ffs.
Anyone else have any near misses due to negligent drivers?

one rule i have is..if a car is waiting to turn across you on the main road...slow down and let him out cause he'll pull out anyway

RosieJoe

scully74 wrote: »

one rule i have is..if a car is waiting to turn across you on the main road...slow down and let him out cause he'll pull out anyway

And the bike coming past you on the outside then goes straight into the side of the car!

I have been involved a car accident where I was stopped in traffic, waved to someone to let them know I was letting them out (not that it was safe to come out). They came out, not paying enough attention which resulted in a 5 car crash, 2 of which were write offs (mine included) and several people being taken to hospital in ambulances. It took nearly 8 years to sort this out!

Simple rule is: never let anyone out! Don't care if I come across as an ignorant fecker, but rather safe than sorry on my part.

Idleater

RosieJoe wrote: »

Simple rule is: never let anyone out! Don't care if I come across as an ignorant fecker, but rather safe than sorry on my part.

That's not entirely true, I'd be more of the opinion never to signal for someone to make a manoeuvre. Give them the opportunity if you so wish, but since you can never confer right of way to them, you should force them to be observant and make the decision in their own right.

Dermot Illogical

hobochris wrote: »

Actually you'd be surprised what you'll learn in training.a big Part of my training was teaching me what to look out for, 90% of the time you can predict what a vehicle is going to do by the road position and how the vehicle is being driven.

+1
Training will also show how you can best hold control of the piece of road you're on so you can keep other traffic from putting you under pressure.
Most car drivers are easy enough to read. Generally you'll predict the move long before the indicator comes on, assuming they bother indicating. My rule of thumb is that if there's room for a car to move into, it probably will.

Xios

RT66 wrote: »

My rule of thumb is that if there's room for a car to move into, it probably will.

+1

Max Headroom

Mine is..."If you have to think about it, its probably too late"....