Cyclists

Robb

Well as we all know the government is slowly trying to get us all to start cycling. An example 30 kph in the city centre and the funky new bikes on the streets. I think their should be some sort of "rules of the road" placed on cyclists, most seem to do whatever they want and not give a crap about the driver behind them.

Anyway I think in order to cycle they should do some test or something at least, because most show no regard to motorists. Serisously, you see some impatient cyclist overtake a slow cyclist and decides to swing out to the right overtake and just expect the person in the car to predict their every impulse. Its just a joke and to top it all off we get blamed for their stupid mistakes.

We all know Ireland never really plan ahead, so our roads really were never built to deal with cyclists. Instead they just took part of the road and made cycle lanes, either way your always stuck behind a cyclists and have to wait until its safe to overtake -.-

Find it ironic all this save the planet rubbish we get told in order to turn to cycling yet most are in mortal danger half the time......


Anyway I am sure their are some responsible cyclists out there, cant stress the word "some" enough so no hard feelings but anyway what are your thoughts on the subject?

Wishbone Ash

Robb wrote: »

Anyway I am sure their are some responsible cyclists out there

Yes, I agree with your sentiments as a keen cyclist and motorist and one of the few cyclists who wait at a red light!

high horse

I think the existing rules of the road need to be enforced on all road users, including cyclists, before new rules get introduced

AugustusMinimus

Whatever about taking a practical test on how to ride a bike, surely cyclists (or at least those without any driving licence) should have to take a theory test on the rules of the road.

Cyclists need to know them as much as any motorist.

From what I can tell, running red lights is to cyclists what speeding is to motorists.

Diabhal_Glas

I cant see it ever happening Robb.
I Imagine there would be a large cost involved and would discourage people even further from getting on their bikes.
Do you know of any other country where this is happening, would be interesting to see how they do it.
Me personally cycling through inner city Dublin had some close calls with busses and I wont even start ranting and raving at how Taxis flew about the place like they owned the road. I generally have found the regular driver to be ok.

AugustusMinimus

Diabhal_Glas wrote: »

I cant see it ever happening Robb.
I Imagine there would be a large cost involved and would discourage people even further from getting on their bikes.
Do you know of any other country where this is happening, would be interesting to see how they do it.
Me personally cycling through inner city Dublin had some close calls with busses and I wont even start ranting and raving at how Taxis flew about the place like they owned the road. I generally have found the regular driver to be ok.

You don't think it would be a good idea to test cyclists on the rules of the road though ? While I would imagine the majority would know them (through doing the driving test and from reading up personally) I would imagine that a significant minority would only have a very vague knowledge of them.

There seems to be a prevailing trend out there not to burden cyclists with any need for testing, documentation or insurance even if there may be perceived safety benefits in doing so. A very odd situation considering the safety drive put forward to motorists.

Wishbone Ash

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There seems to be a prevailing trend out there not to burden cyclists with any need for testing, documentation or insurance even if there may be perceived safety benefits in doing so. A very odd situation considering the safety drive put forward to motorists.

Well, you know the argument that's going to be made - no cyclist has ever killed a motorist but many motorists have killed cyclists!

Dally

Making cyclists do a test wouldn't solve their bad behaviour any more than making drivers sit a test stops them speeding and drink driving.

high horse

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Well, you know the argument that's going to be made - no cyclist has ever killed a motorist but many motorists have killed cyclists!

I'm sure there must be some stats out there that cover cyclists running into pedestrians

AugustusMinimus

Dally wrote: »

Making cyclists do a test wouldn't solve their bad behaviour any more than making drivers sit a test stops them speeding and drink driving.

At least ignorance of the law wouldn't be a valid excuse anymore.

Diabhal_Glas

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

You don't think it would be a good idea to test cyclists on the rules of the road though ? While I would imagine the majority would know them (through doing the driving test and from reading up personally) I would imagine that a significant minority would only have a very vague knowledge of them.

There seems to be a prevailing trend out there not to burden cyclists with any need for testing, documentation or insurance even if there may be perceived safety benefits in doing so. A very odd situation considering the safety drive put forward to motorists.

When I was a Kid we actually did get trained in the rules of the road, there was a scheme in Carrick-on-Suir in the summer over a weekend, it was called "the Sean Kelly Cycling School". It was great you got to meet kids from all over the country, got to learn about cycling safety, got to go on rides depending on your ability and generally became a more aware cyclist.
Of course It would be brilliant to have kids learn the rules of the road, maybe this should be done for a few hours in school, a talk, a video and an exam.
But realistically when is the last time you heard of anyone being stopped and fined for dangerous cycling, not having a light etc. I cant imagine the gardai bringing people to court for not having some sort of a safety cert to ride a bike, how would they go about checking cyclists for said safety cert?
If that scheme for the bike hire in Dublin got popular maybe they could offer a discount if people completed some cycling safety course.

AugustusMinimus

Diabhal_Glas wrote: »

When I was a Kid we actually did get trained in the rules of the road, there was a scheme in Carrick-on-Suir in the summer over a weekend, it was called "the Sean Kelly Cycling School". It was great you got to meet kids from all over the country, got to learn about cycling safety, got to go on rides depending on your ability and generally became a more aware cyclist.
Of course It would be brilliant to have kids learn the rules of the road, maybe this should be done for a few hours in school, a talk, a video and an exam.
But realistically when is the last time you heard of anyone being stopped and fined for dangerous cycling, not having a light etc. I cant imagine the gardai bringing people to court for not having some sort of a safety cert to ride a bike, how would they go about checking cyclists for said safety cert?
If that scheme for the bike hire in Dublin got popular maybe they could offer a discount if people completed some cycling safety course.

I remember learning the Safe Cross Code and such at school yet nothing ever about the rules of the road or anything that would have benefited me while riding a bike.

All schools should be teaching this if they already don't.

Dally

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

At least ignorance of the law wouldn't be a valid excuse anymore.

But it's not a valid excuse. Do you think it's valid?

I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to pay more tax in order to pay for administering this new system.

AugustusMinimus

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Well, you know the argument that's going to be made - no cyclist has ever killed a motorist but many motorists have killed cyclists!

How true. The powers that be need to have a lesson in cause and effect.

The cause of an accident may be a cyclist breaking a rule of the road. The effect might be the cyclists getting killed by a motorist.

Of course however, the effect cannot happen without the cause.

Dally

high horse wrote: »

I'm sure there must be some stats out there that cover cyclists running into pedestrians

I'm sure there are, and I'd bet it's a small figure. As for the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists, I'd guess you you could the national annual figure on one hand. Of course these are just guesses.

fergalr

Consider your argument as applied to pedestrians:

Well as we all know the government is slowly trying to get us to start walking more.
An example 30kph in the city centre... I think there should be some sort of "rules of the road" placed on pedesitrians, most seem to do whatever they want and not give a crap about the driver or cyclist coming towards them.

Anyway, I think in order to walk they should do some test or something at least, because they show no regard to motorists. Seriously, you see some impatient pedestrian overtake a slow pedestrian, and decides to step out on the road overtake and just expect the person in the car or bike to predict their every impulse. Its just a joke and to top it all off we get blamed for their stupid mistakes.

[...]
Whatever about taking a practical test on how to walk around the city, surely pedestrians (or at least those without any driving licence) should have to take a theory test on the rules of the road.
From what I can tell, running red men is to pedestrians what speeding is to motorists.
[...]

Why does this argument not make sense when I apply it to pedestrians too?

Its a cost/benefit thing.


If there's stricter enforcement of cycling rules, or a mandatory test or license, a lot fewer people will cycle.
Fewer cyclists has been found to correlate with higher risk of accidents for cyclists. (This makes some intuitive sense - the fewer cyclists you see as a driver, the fewer you expect to see, so you don't make allowances for it)

Fewer cyclists also means more drivers.
This makes the roads work less good.
I wish drivers ranting about cyclists would understand that cycling is a very road-space-efficient way to get someone from A to B.
If they all drove instead, the roads in Dublin would clog up. That would be very bad for drivers. Consider the consequences of what you are proposing.
Our infrastructure would freeze. We'd be less efficient. The economy would suffer.

We could go and rebuild the roads much wider to make up for this. Do you want to pay all that extra tax?
We could ration car usage somehow - only even reg'd cars one day, odd reg'd cars another. Would you like that? The tens of thousands of people that cycle to work - many of whom own cars too - have to get into work somehow.


As a licensed driver, yes, I agree that sometimes its a little inconvenient having to wait behind cyclists sometimes. But really, I'm not afraid of cyclists from inside a car. Anyone that says they are is being silly.

Now, as a pedestrian, sometimes cyclists are dangerous. But thats not because they are breaking the rules of the road. Its because they are also being dangerous and stupid to others, which is actually a different thing. The two are not the same. They are much less correlated for a cyclist, than they are for a driver.
For example, a driver that is breaking the rules of the road (eg at a busy vehicle traffic junction) is much more likely to cause injury to others than a cyclist is.


As a cyclist, over the years, I've had rather a few encounters with stupid, aggressive, or careless drivers that have directly put my life at risk.
You would reduce the danger people are to others on the roads a lot more by forcing drivers to have special training to watch out for cyclists, than you would be licensing cyclists.
Should urban drivers have to do a special course on cyclist awareness?


Finally, the fact is that some rules that cyclists break are stupid.
You can tell they are stupid because they are not enforced, and cyclists break them all the time with little or no consequences.
This means they are unnecessary. If it was dangerous to break them, then some of the cyclists that are breaking them all the time, as many drivers complain about, would be getting hurt.

It doesn't make sense to always enforce every rule.
If you, as a pedestrian, cross deserted Nassau street at 6 on a sunday morning, with no cars around, when the little man is red, should you be prosecuted for breaking the rules? Would you really be in favour of living in such a society? If everyone followed the rules all the time, regardless of whether they made sense in each individual instance, this would not be an efficient place to live.


For example, it is frequently the case that a cyclist making a left hand turn on a red, with a clear lane, or an empty cycle lane, is absolutely no danger to anyone else. In other countries, this behaviour is allowed for in the rules. Technically here it is illegal, but its not usually enforced.

Drivers that complain about cyclists that do that generally are not really interested in the cyclists well being.
They just got stuck behind a cyclist at some stage in the day, and are venting their frustration by talking about something the see as clearly against the rules.

But they should consider that if every cyclist waited for the light to go green, all the drivers would have to wait for the cyclists to move off before they could.
This would slow down traffic. Traffic behaves non-linearly - all the cyclists strictly obeying the rules of the road in situations like left-turn-on-red could have a much bigger slow down effect on traffic than you might predict.

Is this really better for everyone?

Is it better for anyone?


I do agree that some cyclists do stupid things - refuse to yield to pedestrians who have the green light; go around invisible at night time, etc.
But most of the time, they will only hurt themselves if they get it wrong. As such, its quite sensible that we worry more about people who will injure others, and concentrate the bulk of limited enforcement and regulation resources there.

From the point of view of all road users....

Victor

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The cause of an accident may be a cyclist breaking a rule of the road. The effect might be the cyclists getting killed by a motorist.

You need to separate proximate and underlying cause.

Imagine, Tom shot Dick as Dick walked in front of Tom's rifle as he was about to fire. Now, is the problem that Tom was shooting in an inappropriate place or without due care for his surroundings or that Dick didn't see what was happening or Dick wasn't paying attention?

The general rules is that if you make a small mistake and there are serious consequences, that it is the serious consequences bit that needs to be dealt with. This is why we put cover plates on machines, keep medicine out of reach of children, have training for heavy vehicle operators, etc. Its unacceptable to blame the worker who loses a hand because clothing got caught in the uncovered machine or the child who is poisoned by mistaking medicine for sweets.

Its prudent to give pedestrians and cyclists some leeway. Most cyclists are killed by side-swiping, not by being hit by the front of a vehicle. Give the cyclist plenty of space when overtaking and if a cyclist has taken command of a lane, don't abuse them verbally or with the horn. Correspondingly, if I need to command the lane because the road is too narrow or there is a hothole extending from the gutter, I try to indicate my intentions and then when things are clear, I try to wave traffic past.

The problem in this country is a lack of respect for each other. Often we get away with it with the small things, but occasionally the big things come back and bite us and someone gets hurt or worse.

DubTony

Most of the "situations" on our roads are down to people not being personally responsible. Speeders and lane hoggers, traffic light breaking cyclists and jaywalkers are all simply being irresponsible.

This irresponsibility is a cause of annoyance, road rage and, in the worst cases, accidents. The problem isn't rules and/or the lack of them, the problem is people.

langdang

DubTony wrote: »

The problem isn't rules and/or the lack of them, the problem is people.

Hear Hear! There's no point inconveniencing the rest of us because of the actions of people (drivers/pedestrians/cyclists) who are too stupid/ignorant/careless to be left out in public. You can have all the rules/training you want but there will always be one moron who decides common sense and a bit of consideration for other people is too much to ask for...

Cabaal

Lets try this again shall we?

Robb wrote: »

I think their should be some sort of "rules of the road" placed on cyclists, most seem to do whatever they want and not give a crap about the driver behind them.

I think their should be some sort of "rules of the road" placed on motorists, most seem to do whatever they want and not give a crap about the driver behind them.

Anyway I think in order to cycle they should do some test or something at least, because most show no regard to motorists. Serisously, you see some impatient cyclist overtake a slow cyclist and decides to swing out to the right overtake and just expect the person in the car to predict their every impulse. Its just a joke and to top it all off we get blamed for their stupid mistakes.

Anyway I think in order to drive they should do continues tests or something at least, because most show no regard to other motorists. Serisously, you see some impatient motorists overtake a slow motoriss and decides to swing out to the right overtake and just expect the person in the car to predict their every impulse.

We all know Ireland never really plan ahead, so our roads really were never built to deal with cyclists. Instead they just took part of the road and made cycle lanes, either way your always stuck behind a cyclists and have to wait until its safe to overtake -.-

We all know Ireland never really plan ahead, so our roads really were never built to deal with motorists. Instead they just took part of the road and made cycle lanes, either way your always stuck behind a motorist and have to wait until its safe to overtake -.-

Anyway I am sure their are some responsible cyclists out there, cant stress the word "some" enough so no hard feelings but anyway what are your thoughts on the subject?

Anyway I am sure their are some responsible motorists out there, cant stress the word "some" enough so no hard feelings but anyway what are your thoughts on the subject?


See how this can go both ways and it still applys 100%

As a motorists and cyclist yes some people that cycle do stupid things but as a motorist even more drivers do stupid and dangerous things.

Motorists are more responisable as they are driving a huge heavy metal box that can easy kill people yet people drive over the limit, don't know how to indicate and yet they bitch about cyclists more.

As somebody who used to cycle to work for over 5 years I rarely have reason to complain about cyclists because I know what its like to deal with idiotic motorists

Cookie_Monster

The solution here is to teach driver-ed in schools as a proper subject in say 1st, 2nd or 4th year.

Have kids in cars, show how much damage can be done to bikers getting hit etc etc. In -1020 years we'll have a much more knowledgeable road user all round.


I both drive and cycle and fully admit that I break a lot of light and do stupid things on my bike that would never do in the car. Would a (pointless) test or anything else change the way I cycle, not likely. Part of doing all those silly things on a bike is the fun of it.

seamus

Just to address the notion of licensing bikes, how would you propose that this works for children. Most of us learn to ride a bike as children. Would you require that all children pass a cycling test before they're allowed sit in the saddle? Would you really start prosecuting parents because their child is outside the house cycling around on a tiny bike with stabilisers but no licence?

Licensing would mean the end of cycling within 30 years. It might yield "maximum safety", but in the same way that you could yield maximum safety by insisting that all vehicles are mechanically limited to 30km/h, and fitted with flashing lights and a constant siren to warn people of its approach.

That is, the number of injuries would plummett, but the mode of transport would become unfeasible.

You also have to consider that licencing is generally considered in terms of the impact that you can have on others. This is why you need a licence to open a bar, open a restaurant, own a gun, drive a car, etc.
You don't need a licence to feed yourself or your friends privately, but if it's something you're going to do publically, you must be licenced because you may pose a risk to the public.

Cycling can't really be put into this same vein. How many people are injured or killed after being struck by cyclists each year? How many people are injured or killed after being struck by joggers?

high horse above makes the most obvious point - any kind of new cycling-specific laws, such as licencing, will be just as ignored as the current ones. The law is already there to deal with cyclists, there's tonnes of it, it's just not enforced. So it's ignored by the majority of cyclists. So instead of bitching about cyclists breaking the law, you have bitch at your local representative about how the Gardai aren't enforcing it.

If motorists never ran the risk of being caught for speeding or breaking lights, they would do it all the time too. Saudi Arabia is a perfect example of this.

Education at an early age is the key here. Most of us who end up cycling on the road just progressed to it, there was little or no education. Make it part of the school curriculum; 6 hours a year cycling training - including braking technique and so forth. Government-sponsored "school bus" initiatives where you get 10-15 kids all cycling to school together every day with two or three adults on bikes accompanying & instructing them.

Max Headroom

OK..from next monday 50% of the driving public switch to cycling....so now ,no need for motor fuel ,road tax etc etc..revenue plummets, how long before the gov steps in and decides suddenly you need to have fully comp insurance, road tax,cycling gear which is liable for vat and anything else they can muster up......if you really think the government will sit back and let this happen you're kidding yerselves....green me asre..

langdang

Haha, Max Headroom may not be far from the mark!
You have keep the junkets paid for somehow!!!

pete4130

I know of two incidents where people have been struck badly by cyclists. A good friend of mine, member of a cycling club, competed for Ireland had a pedestrian walk out on him while traffic had the green light around the bottom of Grafton Street/college Green area I think. My friend had zero time to react as the pedestrian stepped out right in front of him. Police and ambulance were called and witnesses were asked what had happened. My friend the cyclist, the pedestrian who stepped out onto the road (and got a broken leg for his efforts) and witnesses said the light was green for road users. The end result was the pedestrian being taken off in the ambulance to hospital and having to pay IR£400 for a new front wheel and forks after the Gardai on the scene were happy the cyclist had done no wrong and the pedestrian was entirely at fault. The same cyclist also got a speeding fine for going faster than 30mph in the Phoenix Park while training and was brought to court over it. The speeding ticket is framed in his house.

Another sad incident was maybe 5 or 6 years ago when a similar thing happened around the same area when a bicycle messenger collided with a pedestrian. This time the pedestrian wasn't so lucky and was killed by the cyclist. This incident I don't know who had right of way or had green lights. I do know that the guy never worked as a bike messenger again and needed counseling for a near breakdown living with what had happened.

As both a motorist and cyclist (now living in London where things are far more aggressive/dangerous on the roads and it is hard not to get mowed down if you follow the rules of the road or not) I can say that being a good cyclist comes from experience and seeing tell tale signs of what drivers are likely to do before they do it. There are patterns in drivers behaviours and their car positioning on the road that indicate they are thinking about doing something before they do it. This comes with time and experience. I've been T-Boned by a driver before pulling out of a side road coming onto an EMPTY main road in the past and because she had a quick glance as she slowed down assumed it was safe not to stop at a "STOP" sign. I didn't have time to stop and could see it happening and arced wide to give her more time to see me/slow down/stop. Next thing I knew I was on the bonnet, on the windscreen and then flying through the air for about 16 feet before I hit the road in the adjacent lane. I would have been dead if the road hadn't have been empty.....or she wouldn't have hit me if the road had been busy? She simply didn't see me or more to the point she simply didn't look properly?

The same can be said when I am driving. I am more aware of cyclists as I am a cyclists and I know what risks and gaps that cyclists will take and I do my best to anticipate these and allow for them. I can still see cyclists road position and for want of a better word their body language if they are thinking about doing something unpredictable. It's not guaranteed but it helps me as a driver.

I do see some idiots cycling that I feel aren't fit to be on the road. They are so focused on staying upright and looking 3 feet in front of them that they have no idea what is going on around them.

There will always be the argument from motorists that cyclists are idiots and from cyclists that motorists are idiots. Both are true to some extent.

Motorists who haven't cycled on the roads can't truly understand what it is like to be a cyclist and I find it hard to accept any argument from a motorist who has no cycling experience in the city when they rant about cyclists. Edit: and to the same extent that cyclists cannot understand how frustrating it can be for motorists dealing with bad cyclists. I also understand how easy it is for an impatient motorist to bully and intimidate a smaller road user.

Victor

Max Headroom wrote: »

OK..from next monday 50% of the driving public switch to cycling....so now ,no need for motor fuel ,road tax etc etc..revenue plummets, how long before the gov steps in and decides suddenly you need to have fully comp insurance, road tax,cycling gear which is liable for vat and anything else they can muster up......if you really think the government will sit back and let this happen you're kidding yerselves....green me asre..

Sure, no problem. Of course, because of the huge amount of imports involved in the motoring industry and the costs involved in providing for all those cars, such extra taxes could be levied and our standard of living would remain the same.

DirkVoodoo

Robb wrote: »

Well as we all know the government is slowly trying to get us all to start cycling. An example 30 kph in the city centre and the funky new bikes on the streets. I think their should be some sort of "rules of the road" placed on cyclists, most seem to do whatever they want and not give a crap about the driver behind them.

Anyway I think in order to cycle they should do some test or something at least, because most show no regard to motorists. Serisously, you see some impatient cyclist overtake a slow cyclist and decides to swing out to the right overtake and just expect the person in the car to predict their every impulse. Its just a joke and to top it all off we get blamed for their stupid mistakes.

We all know Ireland never really plan ahead, so our roads really were never built to deal with cyclists. Instead they just took part of the road and made cycle lanes, either way your always stuck behind a cyclists and have to wait until its safe to overtake -.-

Find it ironic all this save the planet rubbish we get told in order to turn to cycling yet most are in mortal danger half the time......


Anyway I am sure their are some responsible cyclists out there, cant stress the word "some" enough so no hard feelings but anyway what are your thoughts on the subject?

Yes, there are stupid cyclists out there, there are also stupid drivers, stupid pedestrians and sometimes stupid animals. I don't know what the point is. No one is forcing you to cycle, I think if you look at how small the city centre and see the projected figures for commuters entering the city by 2020 you might see that it is entirely unfeasible to expect everyone to be able to drive a car and not have to sit in ridiculously long traffic jams.

The rules of the road apply to cyclists, unfortunately some choose not to obey them and the Gardai don't seem to care too much about enforcing them.

Speaking of stupid drivers, I saw a Cork registered hi-ace drive the wrong way up Sussex street (where the road forks by the Burlington). There was much beeping of horns as it slowly dawned on him what he was doing. I'm not sure if there are "no entry" signs there, but last week I saw a passat enter Sussex street from Sussex terrace and turn right, before nearly hitting a taxi and then turning back onto Leeson street. That doesn't even include the red light breaking I see every day at White's cross and also at the junction of the N11 and kilmacud road.

If I were to follow some of the logic of posts here and in the "30 km/hr" thread, I could easily infer that all drivers are dangerous, can't read road signs and regularly break red lights.

Of course I know this is ridiculous, I am both a driver and a cyclist so I have a good understanding of what life is like on each side of the fence. I think a lot of the "all cyclists do x and y, i never see one stop at a red light" have probably not been on a bike since they were a child. Yes, it only takes one apple and all that, but some of the comments I read here make me wonder how selective people are when behind the wheel of a car. I see people with ride without lights and break red lights, it infuriates me no end, but I have never for once thought that the majority of cyclists do this, much like I know the cases I listed are carried out by a minority of drivers.

@Max Headroom: Simplistic analysis doesn't count for knock on effects, more people cycling = healthier population, fewer sick days, more productive, of course this also means a longer living population which means more stress on pension funds and state benefits, etc. I don't think that "no cars = no tax income from fuel, country goes broke" is quite as compelling an argument as you think. I'm no economist, but I reckon there may be a PhD (or two) of work in there and not just 2 lines of internet forum garble.

monkeypants

My 2c...no need for any extra rules or laws, just enforcement of the ones already on the books. As a sometimes cyclist (I need the exercise ) I stop at red lights, signal, have lights and try to behave myself. However, as a driver, I'm appalled at some of the behaviour exhibited by cyclists and shocked when I see the Gardai paying very little attention. It's unfortunate, but until there are consequences, nothing will change.

When I started cycling again last year after being off a bike for approximately twenty years, I was quite scared of getting into traffic. May I take the opportunity now to say that all the car/truck/bus drivers I've encountered have been fastastic. Bar one, but we'll let that slide.

peasant

Diabhal_Glas wrote: »

When I was a Kid we actually did get trained in the rules of the road,

When (where) I was a kid, we got bussed to one of these:

and spent a whole day cycling around, learning the rules of the road, road signs, hand signals, etc ...and if you were really good, you got to drive one of the pedal cars

robtri

peasant wrote: »

When (where) I was a kid, we got bussed to one of these:

and spent a whole day cycling around, learning the rules of the road, road signs, hand signals, etc ...and if you were really good, you got to drive one of the pedal cars

good fcuk...... i remember them... forgot all about them.... had one down the road from me in clontarf... we went with school to them..... man that brings back memories

coolbeans

peasant wrote: »

When (where) I was a kid, we got bussed to one of these:

and spent a whole day cycling around, learning the rules of the road, road signs, hand signals, etc ...and if you were really good, you got to drive one of the pedal cars

Jebus, I was wondering what country you were from...

Victor

monkeypants wrote: »

My 2c...no need for any extra rules or laws, just enforcement of the ones already on the books.

While, yes, enforcement is important and that means a balance of (a) catching people and providing a rebuke up to (b) prosecution and sentencing there is also space for some adjustment of the law, e.g. left turn on red in specific circumstances, regulations to cover the auxiliary lanes on the M50 and indeed the regulation of quadracycles (currently not covered by the road traffic act)

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Speaking of stupid drivers, I saw a Cork registered hi-ace drive the wrong way up Sussex street (where the road forks by the Burlington). There was much beeping of horns as it slowly dawned on him what he was doing. I'm not sure if there are "no entry" signs there, but last week I saw a passat enter Sussex street from Sussex terrace and turn right, before nearly hitting a taxi and then turning back onto Leeson street.

"Sussex Street" is actually "Sussex Road" (from Sussex Terrace at the Canal to .....). http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sussex+road,+dublin&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.981365,47.460937&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sussex+Rd,+Dublin,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&z=15

I've never checked for signs, but there are definitely road markings, especially the solid white lne. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sussex+road,+dublin&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.981365,47.460937&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sussex+Rd,+Dublin,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&ll=53.32933,-6.24853&spn=0.000298,0.000724&t=k&z=20

DirkVoodoo

Victor wrote: »

"Sussex Street" is actually "Sussex Road" (from Sussex Terrace at the Canal to .....). http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sussex+road,+dublin&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.981365,47.460937&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sussex+Rd,+Dublin,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&z=15

Go easy, I'm useless with directions and place names