Bikes in Apartment blocks= fines

janet28

Hey,

Just got a notice from my management company advising that if caught bringing bikes into the apt that there would be a fine of €150 for damage to paint, carpets etc. Is this legal. There is a bike shed but there never any room and in the past my bike has been damaged in the shed. (where bikes are left at owners own risk). not impressed by this. I am a renter not an owner....

Stargal

Moved to the Accommodation & Property forum.

Cathmandooo

I can understand what's behind the fine, they've probably had a lot of dirt being dragged through the corridors from bikes and damage on walls from bikes hitting off them. They're providing a facility to keep your bike outdoors. It was probably complained about by other residents.

Doesnt sound like there's much you can do.

Little Miss Cutie

To be honest, I dont see an issue with this. There is a similar rule where I live - the exception is for children's bikes. I can see why they have this rule as constantly bringing bikes in and out will damage the carpets and I am sure the walls will get scrapped.

Could you ask to your landlord to enquire about getting additonal bike storage?

belmulletman

janet28 wrote: »

Hey,

Just got a notice from my management company advising that if caught bringing bikes into the apt that there would be a fine of €150 for damage to paint, carpets etc. Is this legal. There is a bike shed but there never any room and in the past my bike has been damaged in the shed. (where bikes are left at owners own risk). not impressed by this. I am a renter not an owner....

Regardless of being impressed or not, if you're damaging property by bringing your bike in (not saying that you are!) then it needs to be paid for. I know if I was renting my apartment out to someone I wouldn't want them bringing their bike in there.

From the management company point of view, it's not illegal to my knowledge (correct me if i'm wrong here).

Treehouse72

Isn't damage through wear and tear what the management fee is for? In my view it is total nonsense to suggest that bikes being brought in and out will produce so much extra damage p.a. that it's not covered by the management fee. Indeed, I doubt that bikes would cause an intolerable increase in scuffs and scrapes at all. A bit, but not enough to be fining people or moaning that the management fee doesn't cover it. BS I say.

It is your apartment and you should be allowed bring your bike into your own bloody home ffs. Apartment owners/renters should not be treated like second class dwellers like this. Total nonsense and I would not be happy to just accept the ruling without looking into it more.

BTW, I'm not a cyclist myself, so this isn't a Cyclists' Union love-in.

D3PO

Treehouse72 wrote: »

.

It is your apartment and you should be allowed bring your bike into your own bloody home ffs.

No its not its your 1000 year lease on the apartment. You dont own it and there entitled to make the rules as they see fit.

I think its fair enough bringing bikes in and out will cause damage to the plaster with pedals and handlebars hitting the walls all be it accidently. Those repairs have to be paid for and why should everybody in the block pay for them through their management fee ?

sambuka41

if the bike is being left in the hallway its also a health and safety risk, it could be blocking an escape route in case of fire. Also your bike would be at your own risk in the hallway too,wouldnt be covered by insurance there.
Make a complaint about the bike shed, there should be better facilities if they plan on enforcing their rules.

Treehouse72

D3PO wrote: »

No its not its your 1000 year lease on the apartment. You dont own it and there entitled to make the rules as they see fit.

I think its fair enough bringing bikes in and out will cause damage to the plaster with pedals and handlebars hitting the walls all be it accidently. Those repairs have to be paid for and why should everybody in the block pay for them through their management fee ?

Hi D3PO. Why did you disappear from the other thread after you insulted me for no reason and I subsequently showed you to be 100% wrong? Kinda cowardly, don't you think? And here you are trolling me again - what gives?

Victor

Strictly speaking only a judge can impose a fine and any liquidated damages have to be reasonable.

There may be a problem with people bringing in bikes from the rain and mud, but people also bring their shoes in. Of course, one could carry the bike.

Leaving hte bike in a common area is a no-no, but you should be able to keep it in your apartment.

Get them to improve the bike security. Make sure its a secure cage with CCTV and preferably swipe card entry that is only available to residents with bikes.

---

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Hi D3PO. Why did you disappear from the other thread after you insulted me for no reason and I subsequently showed you to be 100% wrong? Kinda cowardly, don't you think? And here you are trolling me again - what gives?

If you are going to have a row, keep it to one thread or take it to PM.

Guell72

I think its fair to ask you not to bring in bikes.

But although management companies love to threaten fines, they have zero power to fine you.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

Strictly speaking only a judge can impose a fine and any liquidated damages have to be reasonable.

There may be a problem with people bringing in bikes from the rain and mud, but people also bring their shoes in. Of course, one could carry the bike.

Leaving hte bike in a common area is a no-no, but you should be able to keep it in your apartment.

Get them to improve the bike security. Make sure its a secure cage with CCTV and preferably swipe card entry that is only available to residents with bikes.

Very good proposition. If they refuse you can just say you have to bring it into apartment on security grounds. Win-win

DogmaticLefty

Only the courts can impose fines.

Paulw

Victor wrote: »

Get them to improve the bike security. Make sure its a secure cage with CCTV and preferably swipe card entry that is only available to residents with bikes.

But, as a tenant, you have no rights in that respect. All you can do is ask your landlord. Any CCTV, secure cage and security system would have to be paid for in management fees from the unit owners. The management company is under no obligation to provide such.

The issue is really between the OP and his/her landlord.

While the management company can't technically impose fines, they can add additional charges.

D3PO

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Hi D3PO. Why did you disappear from the other thread after you insulted me for no reason and I subsequently showed you to be 100% wrong? Kinda cowardly, don't you think? And here you are trolling me again - what gives?

Im not sure what thread your referring to but if you want to tell me which one Id be happy to reply to any comment you have made in it.

Im not a troll but nice try to get me involved in a slagging match

jd

Guell72 wrote: »

I think its fair to ask you not to bring in bikes.

But although management companies love to threaten fines, they have zero power to fine you.

If you are an apartment "owner", as part of your leasehold, they usually do. If you are a renter, they usually fine the landlord, and can apply for a lien to be put on the property, if fines aren't paid. Where I am, the apartment owners (rather than the developer) have control of the complex. Basically it is in the owners interest for things to be kept pretty tight (within reason), otherwise the value of the properties sink (relative to other properties)

Jo King

jd wrote: »

If you are an apartment "owner", as part of your leasehold, they usually do.

I have looked at many apartment leases and I have never seen any clauses allowing the management company impose fines. The management company is entitled to impose charges for services not punish people. A lot of management agents try and impose fines with no legal basis whatsoever. There is not even a resolution by the management company to impose a fine, even if it had the power.

janet28

thanks for the advice, I have taken a few pictures of the bike shed and the outside bike area. because of the cycle to work scheme there is actually not one place to leave a bike, (except light poles) which there is notices on that say they will remove the bike. seems everyone is afraid now cos of the fine so there is even less space than there was a month ago. the can get lost of they think I am going to leave my €800 or my boyfriends €2000 bike in an unsafe area. Both bikes are kept in the apt, not obstructing the doorway or common area. So if they do try to impose the fine I will show the pics and ask where they expect us to put the bikes.

Guell72

jd wrote: »

If you are an apartment "owner", as part of your leasehold, they usually do. If you are a renter, they usually fine the landlord, and can apply for a lien to be put on the property, if fines aren't paid. Where I am, the apartment owners (rather than the developer) have control of the complex. Basically it is in the owners interest for things to be kept pretty tight (within reason), otherwise the value of the properties sink (relative to other properties)

You're completely wrong there. If that is in a lease, it is illegal and not enforceable.

bernyh

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Isn't damage through wear and tear what the management fee is for? In my view it is total nonsense to suggest that bikes being brought in and out will produce so much extra damage p.a. that it's not covered by the management fee. Indeed, I doubt that bikes would cause an intolerable increase in scuffs and scrapes at all. A bit, but not enough to be fining people or moaning that the management fee doesn't cover it. BS I say.

It is your apartment and you should be allowed bring your bike into your own bloody home ffs. Apartment owners/renters should not be treated like second class dwellers like this. Total nonsense and I would not be happy to just accept the ruling without looking into it more.

BTW, I'm not a cyclist myself, so this isn't a Cyclists' Union love-in.

Not at all!! Our block was newly painted less than 2 weeks ago and is wrecked already by stupid idiots bringing their bikes upstairs..... I wouldn't mind but we have a bike shed outside and also a lift so if they used eithere it would stop the damage to the walls which is not negligable, if we wanted to keep it impecable they would have to be painted once a week.... which MY maintainence fee pays for!! I'm sick of paying over the odds because people think it's OK to bring bikes up and scrape the walls! What if I wanted to bring a motor bike upstairs!!!

Condatis

Some apartment blocks won't let you park a taxi in your alloted space – nor your van if you are tradesman. Because this "lowers the tone" of the place. It is really a snob issue. The same applies to bikes.

Tell the management company that you will vote for their removal at the next AGM.

Many apartment owners don't realise that they have the power to hire and fire management companies.

WalterMitty

Prams and young kids cause more damage in apartment blocks in my experience.

seamus

Condatis wrote: »

It is really a snob issue. The same applies to bikes.

Not entirely. After a cycle on wet road, a bike is covered in more than just dirty water - it's covered in grease and tarmac and oil and all sorts. If it's wheeled across a carpet or even a tiled floor, it will leave a trail of oil that's fairly difficult to remove.
So very quickly the carpet will become tatty and crap looking, and that's the kind of thing that makes other residents lazy and start dragging in mud from outside and leaving bins downstairs and all that kind of crap.

Rather than attempting to impose fines on people with bikes, they should work *with* people with bikes, as Victor says to improve the facilities.

I'm sure most people with bikes would be happy to pay €100 per year if they have a solid (i.e. concrete block) shed with access-controlled doors and CCTV in which to park their bike.

Any management company is well within their rights to impose fines, however legal enforcement is something else altogether. Most management companies' "fines" take the form of additional service charged which are included in the service charge bill at the start of the next year. However the nature and amount of these service charges *must* be clearly shown and available to all residents. They cannot arbitrarily introduce or impose amounts without informing the residents.

Paulw

Condatis wrote: »

Some apartment blocks won't let you park a taxi in your alloted space – nor your van if you are tradesman. Because this "lowers the tone" of the place.

Tell the management company that you will vote for their removal at the next AGM.

Many apartment owners don't realise that they have the power to hire and fire management companies.

Mostly, you can't park a commercial vehicle in an allotted space. Check your Lease Contract, as it is usually specified there. THAT is why you can't park a taxi nor commercial van in your spot.

You can't hire/fire the management company. However, the management company can hire/fire the management agent. Mostly, the management company simply instruct the management agent to impose additional charges or enforce the rules. The management agent doesn't just make up rules themselves.

Normally such rules and charges are agreed at the company AGM, which only shareholders may attend and vote at. So, someone renting has no input there, and no power to vote (unless attending as proxy for a shareholder).

seamus

Paulw wrote: »

Normally such rules and charges are agreed at the company AGM, which only shareholders may attend and vote at. So, someone renting has no input there, and no power to vote (unless attending as proxy for a shareholder).

Indeed, and strictly speaking, any "fines" can only be imposed on the property owner, not on their tenants. So any landlord would require a provision in the lease to allow them to levy additional charges on their tenants in line with the management company's service charges.

BluePlanet

I think it's outrageous.
People also bring other unwieldy times into their apartments it seems silly to target bikes.

Also, some posters here are under the impression that bikes cost 50€ euro or something. But infact, some bikes cost a few GRAND.
And that is not something one should leave outside (even in "a secure bike shed"), if they want to keep it.

athtrasna

It's in our leases and development rules (a) that bikes should only be stored in bike sheds and may be removed if found attached to railings or in the hallways (b) that landlords are responsible for ensuring that their tenants comply with development rules (c) that the management company can impose monetary sanctions for breaches of rules etc...fair enough IMO, I signed up to it when I bought.

OP you need to check your lease and see what it says regarding development rules. The MC is entitled to bring in rules in the interest of the development but whether or not any costs can be passed on to you is another thing. Also contact your landlord regarding the lack of storage for your bike, unless it's specifically mentioned in your lease or the ad for the property that there is bike storage...you may not get the result you would like.