Looking to set up a few pub games - need advice

mobilecore

I am looking to set up a few pub games in my local area. Not much poker going down here and why not. Just want the experience Its not really about money


If its ok it would be a great help if a few poker players on here give me some advice. I'll list what I am thinking of how the set it up will be and please reply back with suggestions or alternatives.

- 25 buy in with 10 reg fee (thats pretty average right?)
- 6000 starting chips. With the 1000 early reg bonus.
- I'm thinking of starting it at 8pm with a reg time of 7.30 (30 mins is ok right?) People can join the game until 10pm.
- each player will have the option of rebuy ins or top ups until 10pm. Should I have an option to limit how many rebuys a player has? ... or just have it until a certain time? eg 10pm.
- As for blinds i would appreciate any suggestion players have. The general ideal that it should be over by 11.30pm (obvious i know seeing as how its in a pub :P ) Blind levels going up every 10 mins?

- i'd rather have winner take all than "the money goes into the league/pot" - in most of the games I play in its all winner takes all on the night. Do players usually mind if its toward a league? I always found that to be a rip off.



any help would be appreciated.

collei

10 reg for a 25 buy in game is way too high, someting like a 40 or 50 freezout with a 5 reg would probably be more suitable.the early reg chip is a good idea and 6k starting stack should be ok depending what the blinds start off at.
whatever time your starting at people should not be allowed join the game any more than 15 or 20 mins after it kicks off.
i think generally freezouts are more popular than buy backs but the players there will let you know what they prefer.
as for blinds i suggest 10k starting chips blinds 25/50 and a 20 min clock, if you start around 9pm it should be over before closing.
if i were you i would def start a league as it keeps people coming back every week,depending on how many runners there are i would take roughly 10% out of the pot and run it over 3 or 4 months.
i also think again depending on how many runners there are pay at least 1st and 2nd but make it worth finnishing first.
hope this helps!

connie147

collei wrote: »

10 reg for a 25 buy in game is way too high, someting like a 40 or 50 freezout with a 5 reg would probably be more suitable.the early reg chip is a good idea and 6k starting stack should be ok depending what the blinds start off at.
whatever time your starting at people should not be allowed join the game any more than 15 or 20 mins after it kicks off.
i think generally freezouts are more popular than buy backs but the players there will let you know what they prefer.
as for blinds i suggest 10k starting chips blinds 25/50 and a 20 min clock, if you start around 9pm it should be over before closing.
if i were you i would def start a league as it keeps people coming back every week,depending on how many runners there are i would take roughly 10% out of the pot and run it over 3 or 4 months.
i also think again depending on how many runners there are pay at least 1st and 2nd but make it worth finnishing first.
hope this helps!

I presume from reading this that you dont run any pub games. They are nothing like running a card club/casino game. If you give them 10,000 starting stack and a 20 min clock, and give them a decent structure, you have ZERO chance of getting finished by closing time if you start at 9pm.

Also, reg is not kept at 10% in pub games as it is in card clubs. If you run a €50 game, with a decent structure, most players will not mind paying a €10 reg fee. Its understood that not only do you have to make a few quid, but you gotta supply all the equipment, your expertise and dont have the other table games to make a few quid off. So be up front from the start, explain to the players what reg fee is, and you'll be fine. Its when the players dont know where the money is thats missing out of the preizepool is when the trouble starts.

In my experience of running pub games, players want to play for the "craic". For example, they like to slowroll, and unbelievably, the whole table loves that slowroll when they see. Just a totally different breed of player. I dont think pub players like an actual f/o, because most of them are not good enough to holds onto their chips. So if you want some advice, allow them 1 rebuy, at least when they lose their chips, they get a 2nd chance. They didnt go down the pub for a game of poker and a few pints to find themselves out of the game after 20-30 minutes.

So I recommend
5,000 chips starting (with the early bird 1,000 extra)
6,000 chips for the rebuy or add-on.

15 min clock, all the way to the end. start at 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 150/300,200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 500/1000, 800/1500, 1000/2000
Start the game at 8.30pm sharp from the 1st night. People can fall in late, but get them into the habit of an 8.30pm start. Allow the rebuy for 4 x 15 minute levels, so any player late can get into the game if they arrive prior to the break (ie: 9.30pm)

At the start, give each player a token that they have to hand up when they use their rebuy. That way, you'll confine each player to 1 rebuy only. If you allow too many rebuys, the game will become unpopular and unaffordable to many players in the pub.

On payouts,
10-18 players---pay top 3.
19-27 players==pay top 4.
28+

---

pay top 5.

Spread the money a bit. Most pub players are not there to make a killing. Its better to spread the money out a bit.

Say 28 players @ €25 ----=700
Say most rebuy or add-on (most do in pub games)--= 500

1,200 prize pool.
I would deduct 10% for league====even it out at 100.
(your recollections of leagues is that its a rip off. Thats probably because nobody explained it to you at the time and you just spotted the money missing from the prizepool)
Explain to the players (actually having a written sheet from the start that you can hand out to the players would be easier and transparent) that you are deducting 10% each week for the league, and after 10 weeks, the top 10 players in the league will sit down and play a freeroll for the league money. Keep the league updated every week and take it to game with you in print, including the up to date league prize-fund. The players will be happy with that and will return each week to try and make it into the top 10.;

so 1100 now in prizepool

1st--500
2nd--300
3rd--200
4th--100.

4 people going home happy instead of 1.

Hope this is helpful. If you need any advice, you can ask here, or pm me, or indeed, give me a call on 087-2833343. We're 6 years running pub games, and still learning!!!!


Connie

Four of a kind

connie147 wrote: »

I presume from reading this that you dont run any pub games. They are nothing like running a card club/casino game. If you give them 10,000 starting stack and a 20 min clock, and give them a decent structure, you have ZERO chance of getting finished by closing time if you start at 9pm.

Also, reg is not kept at 10% in pub games as it is in card clubs. If you run a €50 game, with a decent structure, most players will not mind paying a €10 reg fee. Its understood that not only do you have to make a few quid, but you gotta supply all the equipment, your expertise and dont have the other table games to make a few quid off. So be up front from the start, explain to the players what reg fee is, and you'll be fine. Its when the players dont know where the money is thats missing out of the preizepool is when the trouble starts.

In my experience of running pub games, players want to play for the "craic". For example, they like to slowroll, and unbelievably, the whole table loves that slowroll when they see. Just a totally different breed of player. I dont think pub players like an actual f/o, because most of them are not good enough to holds onto their chips. So if you want some advice, allow them 1 rebuy, at least when they lose their chips, they get a 2nd chance. They didnt go down the pub for a game of poker and a few pints to find themselves out of the game after 20-30 minutes.

So I recommend
5,000 chips starting (with the early bird 1,000 extra)
6,000 chips for the rebuy or add-on.

15 min clock, all the way to the end. start at 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 150/300,200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 500/1000, 800/1500, 1000/2000
Start the game at 8.30pm sharp from the 1st night. People can fall in late, but get them into the habit of an 8.30pm start. Allow the rebuy for 4 x 15 minute levels, so any player late can get into the game if they arrive prior to the break (ie: 9.30pm)

At the start, give each player a token that they have to hand up when they use their rebuy. That way, you'll confine each player to 1 rebuy only. If you allow too many rebuys, the game will become unpopular and unaffordable to many players in the pub.

On payouts,
10-18 players---pay top 3.
19-27 players==pay top 4.
28+

---

pay top 5.

Spread the money a bit. Most pub players are not there to make a killing. Its better to spread the money out a bit.

Say 28 players @ €25 ----=700
Say most rebuy or add-on (most do in pub games)--= 500

1,200 prize pool.
I would deduct 10% for league====even it out at 100.
(your recollections of leagues is that its a rip off. Thats probably because nobody explained it to you at the time and you just spotted the money missing from the prizepool)
Explain to the players (actually having a written sheet from the start that you can hand out to the players would be easier and transparent) that you are deducting 10% each week for the league, and after 10 weeks, the top 10 players in the league will sit down and play a freeroll for the league money. Keep the league updated every week and take it to game with you in print, including the up to date league prize-fund. The players will be happy with that and will return each week to try and make it into the top 10.;

so 1100 now in prizepool

1st--500
2nd--300
3rd--200
4th--100.

4 people going home happy instead of 1.

Hope this is helpful. If you need any advice, you can ask here, or pm me, or indeed, give me a call on 087-2833343. We're 6 years running pub games, and still learning!!!!


Connie

This is very good advice OP and you'd do well to follow Connie's tips.

When I set up four years ago running pub events we more or less followed the above advice.

We had to options to choose from:

a) charge a €5 reg fee and also provide a dealerd cash game with 5% rake.

b) charge a €10 reg fee and just let the lads belt away at the cash game to hearts content.

We went with option B and still use that format today. As Connie said, its not a casino your running, so you need to cover a few costs like food etc and make a few bob.

The structure I've always used is a 9,000 stack with a 1,000 early bird chip for players that are "present" in the pub/venue by such a time(usually 15 prior to starting time) - which is 9:30pm.

9:30pm is a bit late but its a time the all my players like, so you got to go with the flow.

Its a 20 min clock with blinds: 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 500/1000 etc...


I also run a €20 double chance freezeout every week which is a €5 reg game, with 15 min blinds and 8,000 starting stack (plus an extra 3,000 early bird chip).

The early bird chip is in my view key to getting the tournament started on time. Players will make it there business to be there if they know they are getting an extra 1000 on a 9000 stack evey thursday night, and an extra 3000 on a 8000 stack every tuesday night.

It works for me like a charm and the tourney kicks off on time.

Also, running a league will keep players interested and competitive and there are numerous ways in which you can go about running them.

If you have a laptop you can get some nice easy to use tournament clock software which gives players a visual of blinds etc.

I use tournament director and can't recommend it hightly enough, as it records everything you need from player/tournament stats to leagues.


The main ingredients imo for running a decent tourney are good equipment(cards, chips, tables), a transparent prizepool and make sure you look after your customers by providing good value for money etc.

Feel free to ask us any other questions.

Regards,
Carlo

mobilecore

Absolutely amazing advice guys
I feel like I want to pick your brains somemore :P

- Ok i am looking to get 2 extra dealers involved. How much would the going rate be for paying a dealer? and is that a wise move starting off with 2 dealers? ... do you think on average pub games need two tables/dealers?

- Its obviously a trade off with running a night in a pub, right? Pub doesnt get any money but they get business right? (probably a silly question to ask but just want to get all the details )

- I've heard different stories regarding food. I've heard most bars going 50/50 on the food. Is that true?



Cheers guys.

Four of a kind

mobilecore wrote: »

Absolutely amazing advice guys
I feel like I want to pick your brains somemore :P

- Ok i am looking to get 2 extra dealers involved. How much would the going rate be for paying a dealer? and is that a wise move starting off with 2 dealers? ... do you think on average pub games need two tables/dealers?

- Its obviously a trade off with running a night in a pub, right? Pub doesnt get any money but they get business right? (probably a silly question to ask but just want to get all the details )

- I've heard different stories regarding food. I've heard most bars going 50/50 on the food. Is that true?



Cheers guys.

The standard going rate for dealers is €10 per hour. Plus travelling expenses and they would also get a share of any tips etc.

It really all depends on how big of a regular crowd your going to get and what reg fee you decide to charge, and also whether or not you are going to run a cash table complete with dealer and rake(which is usually 5% capped anywhere between €10 - €20)

If you can get a pub that supplies for food in exchange for you bringing in a steady crowd of players week in week out then that's great. As you know most pub games are a social night out for alot of players and they end up having a few beers. Others just stick to teas/coffees and soft drinks(which there's just as much profit as alcohol for the publican).

Either way, the pub gets a nice evenings worth of custom. And you also must remember that if people know that there is a crowd in a pub whether they are playing poker or not, then they are more likely to go to that pub for a drink. The publican also knows this so make sure you get as good a deal with the food as you can.

I've heard of a few stories where the pub wanted the organiser to "pay" him for the venue and other pubs who thought that they would "pay" the organiser a few bob each week to bring in a crowd. But I don't think that's the case in the majority of cases(if any).

Can you deal yourself? The biggest concern regarding dealers, apart from honesty, is proficiency. You want to make sure that any dealers you get at least know the basics of dealing both a tournament table and cash table.

Sit them down and go over exactly how you would like them to deal. How to position the pot/muck etc. If each dealer is in sync with each other then there's a consistency between each table.

Another good rule starting off is to get yourself and decent set of rules. And make sure you always have a copy with you at each game. Would also be no harm in throwing out a few copies when starting up so any new players will have a good idea of whats what.

What county are you potentially setting up in btw? Location is a huge factor on how well your game will fair up in the long run. If there's already an established game nearby then you'll find if difficult to get regular players.

Feel free to ask anything else.

Regards,
Carlo

mobilecore

Cheers dude.
Also whats the story with registering things? Official purposes and all.

I could swear over half of the pub games out there are "tax free" - registering is something you dont really need to do right?

Four of a kind

mobilecore wrote: »

Cheers dude.
Also whats the story with registering things? Official purposes and all.

I could swear over half of the pub games out there are "tax free" - registering is something you dont really need to do right?

pm sent.

mobilecore

thanks for the advice guys.
I am deep in the process of about to run it now ...

I'm going to you two guys a few pm's just to pick your brains more

mobilecore

Ok lads even more close to getting this set up

How is the league set up?

I heard something like the 1st player on the night (say there are twenty players) gets 40 points... 2nd gets 38 points... etc etc

is this how its run?

TOP_TOP

usually its a combination of feild size along with place.
i.e. 10 points for first for first, 8 for second etc......, and multiply that figure by the number of entrants to give a good league. so 27 runners, first gets 270 points, second gets 216 etc

Coillte_Bhoy

I use this points system - 20,15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4, for top 10. Places 11-14 get 3, 15-18 get 2 and all others get 1. Multiply by number of players

mobilecore

perfect guys
thanks for the advice

I am looking to run these games in dublin ...
Which sadly alot of places already have poker. I have two tables freshly bought. I'm going to do one in my local area. But wouldnt mind running one or two nights in other places of dublin. Any good area in dublin?

Since I got two tables it would make for a good game if i could get 20 players (I got 10 player tables)

.. I guess its just a matter of running a pub in an area and see what happens right?

connie147

hate old quotes, but seriousley, dont run before you can walk.

1-Start a game in your local, keep it going every week until you yourself become comfortable with how to run it in the best way possible, both for you and the players.

2-Start on time every night. If you decide on night 1 that "ah sure, its the 1st night, I'll give it another half hour to see if some more will turn up", then thats what they will expect you to do every week. start the game with whatevers there, and put out some dead stacks for the late commers.

3- When you start, youre going to make some mistakes. Explain to the players on night 1 that its a new venture for you, and im sure they'll be understanding. If you decide to head off and run 4 or 5 games from the start, when you really dont know what your doing, theres a serious chance you'll fail. So again, just concentrate on the 1 game for the 1st 5 or 6 weeks anyway.

4-Start reading up on the rules of poker. When a problem crops up at a table, you HAVE to be able to deal with it in a prompt and curtious and knowleable manner. So study them rules.


GL

Connie

mobilecore

Thanks Connie
All thats left really is deciding what type of game to start off with.

- 25 buyin + 10 reg fee. with up to 1 rebuy or 1 top up only.

- or a 50euro + 5 euro reg fee freezeout (i'd probably include the reg in the 50. so 45 + 5reg)

In recession would alot of people still be looking for 50euro freezeout games? (oddly enough i see alot that run this way)
I was thinking if I did run the freezeout i'd have it self-dealt at the start. I'd hate to get two dealers and for only 6 people to show up. But at the same time I want dealer dealt games. They're more professional. I think i'd settle for getting one dealer on the night then me if need be. That would cover two tables .. and or the cash game later.

Lplate

mobilecore wrote: »

Thanks Connie
All thats left really is deciding what type of game to start off with.

- 25 buyin + 10 reg fee. with up to 1 rebuy or 1 top up only.

- or a 50euro + 5 euro reg fee freezeout (i'd probably include the reg in the 50. so 45 + 5reg)

In recession would alot of people still be looking for 50euro freezeout games? (oddly enough i see alot that run this way)
I was thinking if I did run the freezeout i'd have it self-dealt at the start. I'd hate to get two dealers and for only 6 people to show up. But at the same time I want dealer dealt games. They're more professional. I think i'd settle for getting one dealer on the night then me if need be. That would cover two tables .. and or the cash game later.

If you intend having cash games then you need

1. Cash chips - you absolutely cannot allow real cash on the table and using tournament chips with a designated value for each one is very messy and makes it easy for someone dishonest to pull a stroke on you.

2. An experienced cash game dealer. Someone who isn't experienced will struggle with rake and slow the game down considerably. This means that players get pissed off and you restrict the amount you can earn.

3. A pub where you can run a little late without problems. It's no use to anyone having a cash game for half an hour!

4. A clientele that can afford it. This is not as stupid as it sounds. Many good pub games have folded because players (after drink) have been losing too much and stop coming because of it.

Good luck with your venture, hope it's a success.

mobilecore

Thanks Lplate

Yeah I plan on getting an experienced dealer.
I plan on getting chips from casinoshop.ie - of course with custom plastic sticker artwork. I was thinking of getting the 375 euro fully customised chips. Which you think would be better?
The fully customised would obvious be better, but i think the customised plastic skim might do the trick too. Since it is cash id be worried a tad about people trying to pull a fast one.



I was actually thinking of starting with 2 different games on two different nights and in 2 different pubs (trying to get monday and friday) The monday game being a free roll game (with say a 2 euro league fee) all rebuyins (of 20euro) goto the pot and then say take 100% of any top ups on the break for the house / pay for the dealer cash game which would start after the break. Well as soon as a few players get knocked out after the break. I'm thinking the free roll might be a good way to draw a regular crowd. Providing I get the numbers. To then let them know there is also a friday game (25buyin + 10 reg tourney) I think this might help me draw more people for my friday game but could also just make players only play the freeroll. its a risky move perhaps. 50/50 either way.
For this free-roll. I am looking to hold up to 36 players. Obviously the free-roll tournament is self-dealt. While the cash game is dealer dealt. This sound fair?

Most cash games have a 5% rake I hear. But I also heard that gets capped at 20euro right? ... so at any hand house would only take 2 euro?
or do most run "5% of every pot" - no matter how big? 100euro pot - house gets 5euro?

(I want to run very fair games so its best to ask for opinions )

Lplate

Not sure about your freeroll idea tbh. If you have 20 players for instance and they all top up, you are saying that you'll take 400e for the house! I wouldn't be too happy with that as a player. Might be better just to make it a freeroll with rebuys and a 10e reg at the start.

When a rake is 5% capped at 20, that means 20 per pot. So you charge 5% of all pots up to 400 and 20e for any pot over 400. We also have a no flop no rake and split pot no rake policy to be fairer to players. An experienced cash game dealer will know all this anyway.

Get customised chips at the start. They're safer.

mobilecore

Yeah now that I think of it thats a bad idea. I want everything to be fair. Its not fair to say house gets all top-ups. I only want 3 things from the games I want to set-up ... to be well run, fun and fair.

I'm looking to start this in early march. As I said at the start of the thread. Its not about making money - its about having fun. Doing something new and having an experience saying to myself "I did that"

mobilecore

Got alot done in the last few weeks with this venture.

Just all thats left is what type of game to start off with. I hear tourney games aint as popular as they used to be. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Four of a kind

A double chance freezeout would'nt be a bad way to kick start your games. See what the vibe is and it gives players a second chance if they bust out early etc.

tipp86

I think if you knew more you would not be as quick to jump in to this.

I dont feel from your talk here that you have enough knowledge. Would you consider shadowing some td in there pub game for a few weeks. It would help you a lot.