If Toyota really do implode, who'll benefit?

pburns

Have no idea how bad things will get for Toyota, I think they can get over all this. They have definetely let standards slip but there is a huge amount of hype over these problems in the media. Kind of a perfect storm scenario...

I see the Koreans really out-Japing the Japs at the moment with generous warranties, discounts, improved product and scrappage-friendly marketing strategies.

Of the Europeans, Skoda seem to be going from strenght to strenght - desrvedly so. Opel has better product than it's had in years and Ford has a very strong line-up. Could be interesting.

Of course the real damage (or otherwise) will depend on how it all pans out in the US market...

Run_to_da_hills

Ford, the Mondeo kicks the avensis even before these faults.

Zonda999

Whatever about the rest of the world, i cant see this whole furore having effect on toyota sales here in Ireland at all. in Europe, i cant see it affecting sales too badly in Europe either tbh, maybe a bit more than here but not substantially. Its America i can see there being the biggest drop in sales, where this whole thing originated and probably got most media coverage

Of the Europeans, Skoda seem to be going from strenght to strenght - desrvedly so. Opel has better product than it's had in years and Ford has a very strong line-up. Could be interesting.

All true, and besides i would consider the above marques to have stronger products that Toyota anyway, and shouldnt need this debacle to boost sales,

pburns

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ford, the Mondeo kicks the avensis even before these faults.

I think the current Mondeo is a bit of a let down. Real world reliability problems and it just seems so big and ungainly looking. The Avensis is pretty weak though, maybe even a step backwards from the old model.

JHMEG

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

I think such a massive, costly and public recall will benefit Toyota sales. Public perception may well be that Toyota not only produces quality products, but will fix them for free regardless of cost if there is a serious problem.

unkel

pburns wrote: »

I see the Koreans really out-Japing the Japs at the moment with generous warranties, discounts, improved product and scrappage-friendly marketing strategies.

That's the number one change I'm expecting not just here, but worldwide. People are committing to long term hairshirting. Selling or scrapping mid size cars. Buying the cheapest cars around - like the tiny Kias. Which also have long term risk removing warranties. And they are not as much crap as they were only 5-10 years ago.

Not so sure though if those decisions will make the buyers very happy over the next few years though

bazz26

People thought a similar thing a few years ago when Microsoft tried to monopolise the home computer market and were ordered to divide into smaller parts to protect competition. Microsoft managed to survive and still hold a healthy position in the pc market though Apple are on crest of a wave at the moment.

I think people in general just like to see huge capitalist corporations like Toyota or Microsoft fall to their knees, the bigger they are the harder they like them to fall. If Toyota fail which I doubt, they will be replaced by someone else like VAG and the cycle goes on.

I might be in the minority here but I'll stick my neck out here and see Toyota actually coming out better from all this. They might loose a fortune in share valuations, costs of recalls, law suits etc in the short term but it might hit home that they need to go back to their grass roots of produced reliable, though uninspiring, products rather than cutting cormers in their quest to achieve global domination in the motor industry.

Also it would be interesting to see how the other "big" motor corporations would deal with such a disaster. Would they issue such a large recall or would they put their heads in the sand and wait until they were ordered to acknowledge such a fault?

Dempo1

Firstly i doubt they will implode, too good a car manufacturer, this entire media frenzy has been driven by Big American car manufacturers looking for any excuse to try and increase sales, i was in the states when this story broke and the bias shown by big news organizations was incredible. Japanese car manufacturers account for over 60% of the market and they have crucified the likes of GM and Chrysler for years. Putting the entire debacle into context here? for gods sake there are only 58 hybrids affected and its a software issue which can be rectified easily. Admittedly Toyota's over response to the crisis in other vehicles has been less than impressive but then again the might of the American Car manufacturing lobby aligned with media bias has i believe created a storm that would in any other jurisdiction be a light wind

245

Its an interesting question. Look at Audi's American experience and ponder the implications for Toyota.

I'd tend to bet on Korean manufacturers being the main beneficiaries.

Grimreaper666

Toyotas standards have been slipping for years since they started building them in Europe, engine replacements are pretty regular occurances in recent times, I think they have the quality cut back to an inch of the cars life. The only Toyota i'd buy is a Japanese assembled one, even when you look at the quality of the Jap imports compared to a European one there is no comparison. You don't hear them rattling on about "the best built car in the world" nowadays, not that they ever were anyway. I'd have a Kia any day over a Toyota.

McSpud

Maybe we see some interesting cars from Toyota now that they might not be able to rely on the best built marketing tag line. In wonder what new marketing campaign Toyota will come with... Interesting to see the best build line is still used on Irish web site but not in the UK or US (not sure if they ever used in those markets)

Toyota cars are generally not cheap so if customers leave them I don't see them moving to the lower end. I think Nissan will benefit as they are also japanese & make unoriginal cars.

pburns

Dempo1 wrote: »

Firstly i doubt they will implode, too good a car manufacturer, this entire media frenzy has been driven by Big American car manufacturers looking for any excuse to try and increase sales, i was in the states when this story broke and the bias shown by big news organizations was incredible. Japanese car manufacturers account for over 60% of the market and they have crucified the likes of GM and Chrysler for years. Putting the entire debacle into context here? for gods sake there are only 58 hybrids affected and its a software issue which can be rectified easily. Admittedly Toyota's over response to the crisis in other vehicles has been less than impressive but then again the might of the American Car manufacturing lobby aligned with media bias has i believe created a storm that would in any other jurisdiction be a light wind

You're not the only one to smell a rat...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/11/report-group-of-governors-take-issue-with-obama-administration/

Fiskar

VW.

Expect it will lead Toyota to bring out fresh cutting edge designs to win back customers though. You haveto do what you have to do. They might hire a SEAT or Alfa car designer!

Dempo1

pburns wrote: »

You're not the only one to smell a rat...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/11/report-group-of-governors-take-issue-with-obama-administration/

Made excellent reading

mickdw

Toyota have no place in the world if the cars are not seen to be completely bulletproof. I hope the whole business crumbles. Unfortunately, There is not a hope of this happening.
Imagine if it did. We would have millions of drivers realising that they were cheated for years with crap design, crap materials and a built in cheapness that really shouldnt be there when considering the price they pay for these things.

pburns

mickdw wrote: »

Toyota have no place in the world if the cars are not seen to be completely bulletproof. I hope the whole business crumbles. Unfortunately, There is not a hope of this happening.
Imagine if it did. We would have millions of drivers realising that they were cheated for years with crap design, crap materials and a built in cheapness that really shouldnt be there when considering the price they pay for these things.

Sorry, but that's nonesense. Even if Toyota did disappear someone else would fill the 'car as white goods' USP.

Anyway IMO this is due to:
1. Toyota have let the ball drop on quality by chasing volume. Not to the same extent as Mercededs did in the 90s but the latest cars are definetely not as good as the ones from before the mid 90s.
2. The litigous US authorities and press are only too keen to put the boot in to try and bolster their own basket-case auto makers.
3. Many commentators will take a perverse pleasure the big boys falter.

Do you really think Hyundai/Kia would make a more 'interesting' range of cars?

As for VAG, pah, Toyota are still way ahead of most of their brands on quality.

JHMEG

mickdw wrote: »

We would have millions of drivers realising that they were cheated for years with crap design, crap materials and a built in cheapness that really shouldnt be there when considering the price they pay for these things.

Imagine if with the wave of a magic wand, all Toyotas in the world were turned into stylish Alfa Romeos with leather interiors. The world would look better, but would it really be better?

Zubeneschamali

JHMEG wrote: »

would it really be better?

Yes.

CantonaGod

This recall situation is not all bad news for Toyota and there are ways to turn a negative around .........
Across Europe and America millions of Toyota Owners will be contacted asking them to go to their local Dealer. If the Dealer handles the customers properly, does the necessary repair quickly and efficiently, provides a pleasant environment tea coffee etc, possibly gives the car a wash/vac, gives out discount vouchers for servicing, accessories etc etc and overall makes the experience a "good" one there is a good chance the customer will return for subsequent repair and service.

More importantly the Dealer network will now have a huge database of customers many of whom they would never have seen before. Such a database is worth a fortune in business terms. In the future these customers can be directly targeted as the dealer will know model, milage, age, customer details etc etc. This is invaluable to any Retail business.

I am certain they would much rather not have the recall though!

JJJJNR

JHMEG wrote: »

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

I think such a massive, costly and public recall will benefit Toyota sales. Public perception may well be that Toyota not only produces quality products, but will fix them for free regardless of cost if there is a serious problem.

Bang on, they have gone far beyond my expectations on this, they have pulled out all the stops..



:pac:

Tea 1000

JJJJNR wrote: »

Bang on, they have gone far beyond my expectations on this, they have pulled out all the stops..



:pac:

Yep, they've accelerated the procedure nicely...

stephenoleary

JHMEG wrote: »

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

I think such a massive, costly and public recall will benefit Toyota sales. Public perception may well be that Toyota not only produces quality products, but will fix them for free regardless of cost if there is a serious problem.

This is an interesting point - and ties into the idea of there being no such thing as bad publicity. I certainly agree that some people will be impressed that Toyota is taking responsibility for the situation and ensuring their products are 100% safe.

I did some research into the media coverage the Toyota Recall has been getting - going back to the original recall in 2007. While the coverage has increased massively - and is continuing to do so with every new recall announced - the consensus is that Toyota are dealing well with the situation, from a media point of view.

cantdecide

If Toyota really do implode, who'll benefit?

Car lovers.

JHMEG

cantdecide wrote: »

If Toyota really do implode, who'll benefit?

Car lovers.

Do car lovers not have interesting cars already?

Tea 1000

JHMEG wrote: »

Do car lovers not have interesting cars already?

Apparently they either have an Octavia or Superb...

cantdecide

JHMEG wrote: »

Do car lovers not have interesting cars already?

Yeah but when you're driving yours, you're looking out your windscreen mainly seeing drab, undersized, underpowered, over-rated disposable boxes.

Think of it this way- don't buy nice car for your own enjoyment. Don't be selfish and subject me to your drabness. Buy a car for the worlds enjoyment.

JHMEG

Most people want to get from A to B with less drama than an episode of Eastenders. The may have enough excitement in other parts of their lives already.

cantdecide

JHMEG wrote: »

Most people want to get from A to B with less drama than an episode of Eastenders. The may have enough excitement in other parts of their lives already.

Most people should think more highly of themselves IMO

JHMEG

cantdecide wrote: »

Most people should think more highly of themselves IMO

They might be bomb disposal experts, skydiving instructors, martial arts teachers...

paddy147

1 word.......................CHINA

mickdw

pburns wrote: »

Sorry, but that's nonesense. Even if Toyota did disappear someone else would fill the 'car as white goods' USP.

Do you really think Hyundai/Kia would make a more 'interesting' range of cars?

They already do imo make more interesting cars imo. I would have i30/proceed before Id have anything from toyota.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes.

cantdecide wrote: »

Don't buy nice car for your own enjoyment. Don't be selfish and subject me to your drabness. Buy a car for the worlds enjoyment.

I like your thinking.

cantdecide

JHMEG wrote: »

They might be bomb disposal experts, skydiving instructors, martial arts teachers...

They're usually not. You know they're not. There is a Toyota mentality. A willingness to compromise everything in favour of a perceived saving of money and mental effort.

JHMEG

mickdw wrote: »

I would have i30/proceed before Id have anything from toyota.

i30:

something from toyota:

mickdw

JHMEG wrote: »

i30:

something from toyota:

No need to be smart.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

No need to be smart.

He has a point though, doesn't he?

I don't think it will kill off Toyota. It will cost them dearly, but they can afford it. It's making a serious dent in their reputation, but they'll get back to where they were (Mercedes did, well to a degree )

When the dust is settled and Toyota focuses once again makes very well built cars, instead of just trying to make enormous medium term profits, the likes of Hyundai and Kia will have taken a good chunk out of Toyota market share, especially in the lower range models (up to corolla / auris)

Green Hornet

Honda could benefit from the issues too. I know they've had the airbag problem themselves but it's received much less attention than Toyota's issues and the public perception has not really been affected.

I'm sure there are people out there who think Japanese is the only way to go so Honda would be a natural replacement for those people?

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

He has a point though, doesn't he?

When I said 'anything', really i suppose I meant up to and most certainly including avensis. The landcruiser is fine and I would have a lexus GS 450h myself if I though it might be anyway fuel efficient.

pajo1981

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

Toyotas standards have been slipping for years since they started building them in Europe, engine replacements are pretty regular occurances in recent times, I think they have the quality cut back to an inch of the cars life. The only Toyota i'd buy is a Japanese assembled one, even when you look at the quality of the Jap imports compared to a European one there is no comparison. You don't hear them rattling on about "the best built car in the world" nowadays, not that they ever were anyway. I'd have a Kia any day over a Toyota.

The cars are 99% assembled by robot. Why would it matter where they were assembled?

bazz26

Maybe all those Toyota drivers should now dispense with their flawed cars that cause so much offence to the car purists of boards.ie who were right all along and replace them with something more adverterous like a VAG product. Nothing gets the heart going like a Jetta, Passat or A4.