Irish. WHY D:

Blue_Seas

Over the top title, yes, but I would actually like some opinions on this. Why is Irish even a subject any more? Make it optional. If kids or their parents want to study Irish then they can but for others who find it difficult... why make us do it and then grow up hating the language? I think it's a beautiful language but really I just don't understand it much since going into the Junior Cycle. Questions are asked of me in comprehensions that I just read... and I can't even think of what they could possibly mean.

I do better in French than I do in Irish! I've been taught Irish all my life and from the tests I've been getting back recently I'm at a C average whereas after only three years of French education I've been getting A's. Either Irish needs to be changed in how it's taught or they need to make it optional for the passionate students or those who are very good at it.

Luno

The day Irish is made optional will be the day when any pride left in anything Irish is flushed down the drain.

There is changes being made to the syllabus though, as far as I know in a few years to come there will be an oral for junior cert which will not be optional.

I actually like Irish as a subject, find the poems and novels interesting, any of ye ever watch the short movie's in Irish? I thought they were hilarious! Comprehensions are usually grand easy marks, write a story about an accident isn't really that hard either.

Irish is the same as any other language, its what you put in that you get out of it, if you were really interested in it then you would be putting the effort in and . . . getting the grades your getting in other languages.

Fad

Guess what?

You are not the first person to think of this, you are not the first person to say this You are not a unique snow flake........

Just get on with it! Complaining about the system is pointless. Your time would be better spent trying to understand it.

Look, I'm not trying to totally dismiss what you're saying, just it's so incredibly pointless to whinge about it! You are stuck studying it!

And in contribution to the actual discussion, I am dead against making Irish optional. I like it, I think it's quite a simple language, often poorly taught, but that's just an excuse, students are too lazy most of the time and try and deflect the blame of their failure on to teachers.........

[/rant]

Jackobyte

I once held the same belief as you blue_sea but then i spent 3 weeks in a strict gaeltacht where you actually couldn't speak english because the cinnires were good and sneaky and caught you everytime. 3 strikes and you're out and this was actually enforced. 4 people were sent home early. I now love the language. It becomes natural and free flowing. You start to think irish and you end up slipping back into irish when you get home on a regular basis for about a month. I still do on occasion.

i love it now and would hate to see it removed from syllabus. Gaeilge=gnéasach:D

suitcasepink

I think Irish should definetly be compulsary, tbh why shouldnt it it's only in the last few decades that it's not spoken all over. Who knows made in a few more decades we will all be speaking Irish again..
But I am against the way it is taught. My reasoning is Irish should be more oral work then anything else, you want people to enjoy it and to learn what would be of use for them IRL Learning off gearrsceals and filiocht is only beneficial to very few..
Wheras if it was taught more like your third lanugage(but obviously a higher standard) I think it would work out better for everyone, coz it is a nice language its just some things your told to do in it is kind of ridiculous especially when many people are still rusty with the basics (I couldnt put a sentence together before I went into 1st year)

So yea thats my rant... Wow if I wasnt trying to delay Science study I wouldnt cared half as much about this topic!! :P

Blue_Seas

Fad wrote: »

Guess what?

You are not the first person to think of this, you are not the first person to say this You are not a unique snow flake........

Just get on with it! Complaining about the system is pointless. Your time would be better spent trying to understand it.

Look, I'm not trying to totally dismiss what you're saying, just it's so incredibly pointless to whinge about it! You are stuck studying it!

And in contribution to the actual discussion, I am dead against making Irish optional. I like it, I think it's quite a simple language, often poorly taught, but that's just an excuse, students are too lazy most of the time and try and deflect the blame of their failure on to teachers.........

[/rant]

I actually have an excellent teacher I was just thinking though that dyslexic students in my school can opt out of Irish. It isn't taught like my third language and to me it's taught in an unusual way. So far if I were to go to a gaelteacht I would be able to reel off an essay, my poetry and story summaries and a few random phrases but I'm still terrible at basic Irish. I wasn't ever taught basic Irish in the way that I was taught French and I'm just wondering why?

And I know I'm stuck studying it. It's so beautiful but I really just can't get to grips with some parts and if it was optional I'd probably look up the basic stuff at home.

kingcobra

I did not expect many of the posts to go in favour of Irish:D

In my opinion Irish should be done up to 6th class or the Junior Cert but other than that it should be optional. Learning Irish is really a waste of time unless you plan to live in Gaeltacht but it should be treated the same way business or woodwork is. For many of us we wont be using even a tiny bit of Irish in our future careers and if we didnt have to spend so much time doing Irish we may be able to focus on other things that are important.
i dont see much point in learning Irish if most people hate it, it just ruins the Irish language because people detest it even more

Jackobyte

deise_girl wrote: »

I think Irish should definetly be compulsary, tbh why shouldnt it it's only in the last few decades that it's not spoken all over. Who knows made in a few more decades we will all be speaking Irish again..
But I am against the way it is taught. My reasoning is Irish should be more oral work then anything else, you want people to enjoy it and to learn what would be of use for them IRL Learning off gearrsceals and filiocht is only beneficial to very few..
Wheras if it was taught more like your third lanugage(but obviously a higher standard) I think it would work out better for everyone, coz it is a nice language its just some things your told to do in it is kind of ridiculous especially when many people are still rusty with the basics (I couldnt put a sentence together before I went into 1st year)

So yea thats my rant... Wow if I wasnt trying to delay Science study I wouldnt cared half as much about this topic!! :P

i agree to your points about the method of teaching it should be changed to fit everyday use of the language rather than the **** we learn now. How often do i use the word contrast in english? So why should i learn it in irish? My friends father is principal to another school and he said it is taught using such methods to give everyone a fair chance to do well. Something about allowing people to learn off without learning the language fluently, etc.

Mayoegian

Fad wrote: »

Guess what?

You are not the first person to think of this, you are not the first person to say this You are not a unique snow flake........

Just get on with it! Complaining about the system is pointless. Your time would be better spent trying to understand it.

Look, I'm not trying to totally dismiss what you're saying, just it's so incredibly pointless to whinge about it! You are stuck studying it!

And in contribution to the actual discussion, I am dead against making Irish optional. I like it, I think it's quite a simple language, often poorly taught, but that's just an excuse, students are too lazy most of the time and try and deflect the blame of their failure on to teachers.........

[/rant]

Well said! Take a bow Fad!!

Fad

Jackobyte wrote: »

i agree to your points about the method of teaching it should be changed to fit everyday use of the language rather than the **** we learn now. How often do i use the word contrast in english? So why should i learn it in irish? My friends father is principal to another school and he said it is taught using such methods to give everyone a fair chance to do well. Something about allowing people to learn off without learning the language fluently, etc.

I'd use it a fair bit in English.....it's also VERY useful for answering question on poetry in Irish

bluejay14

Jackobyte wrote: »

i agree to your points about the method of teaching it should be changed to fit everyday use of the language rather than the **** we learn now. How often do i use the word contrast in english? So why should i learn it in irish? My friends father is principal to another school and he said it is taught using such methods to give everyone a fair chance to do well. Something about allowing people to learn off without learning the language fluently, etc.

I've actually started to use the word contrasts loads lately.Iknow half the time I'v eonly been messing and stuff but I actually only noticed today that I've been puting it in everywhere.I even stuck it in somewhere on my religion paper.

I do think that Irish should be kept compulsory though.It is our native language and stuff and I've always wanted to go to some foreign country and start to speak it.You don't see many other countries where their native language is not mandatory in schools.Just be thankful you don't have to learn Englisg as a foreign language.It's the hardest language in the world to learn.

bevan619

I'm English and I couldn't even get out of it. I was fairly peeved that my brothers got out of it. I spent 1st and 2nd Year doing nothing and then the teacher let me do Ordinary Level and I can barely pass that.

Luno

bevan619 wrote: »

I'm English and I couldn't even get out of it. I was fairly peeved that my brothers got out of it. I spent 1st and 2nd Year doing nothing and then the teacher let me do Ordinary Level and I can barely pass that.

I think it's unfair to make English do Irish, I know a lot who enjoy doing it at school and that but should be an option for them.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

jumpguy

M&S* wrote: »

The day Irish is made optional will be the day when any pride left in anything Irish is flushed down the drain..

Yes, I can see the GAA collapsing, people going around scraping the Irish off road signs, and of course, line dancing will immediately cease to exist if Irish is made optional, and we all won't be forced to do it even if we hate it and grow up to resent our "national" language.

bluejay14

jumpguy wrote: »

Yes, I can see the GAA collapsing, people going around scraping the Irish off road signs, and of course, line dancing will immediately cease to exist if Irish is made optional, and we all won't be forced to do it even if we hate it and grow up to resent our "national" language.

oh don't you worry, the GAA will never collapse with me and deise here.:D

Fad

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ah, another reason to hope in vain that FG never get in to power >_<

spurious

I suppose it's to do with being educated, knowing something about lots of varied topics and using that information to cope with any situation, rather than learning off lots to regurgitate in the pursuit of points.

A person is not educated unless they speak and write the language(s) of their country and can at least get by in a 'foreign' language.

Wait til you meet people on Erasmus exchanges from some other countries, particularly Eastern and Central Europeans. They will frighten you with their level of education. We have gone badly astray in Ireland in the last few decades and the state of Irish teaching and learning is only part of it.

Calculators in Maths???

Luno

spurious wrote: »

I suppose it's to do with being educated, knowing something about lots of varied topics and using that information to cope with any situation, rather than learning off lots to regurgitate in the pursuit of points.

A person is not educated unless they speak and write the language(s) of their country and can at least get by in a 'foreign' language.

Wait til you meet people on Erasmus exchanges from some other countries, particularly Eastern and Central Europeans. They will frighten you with their level of education. We have gone badly astray in Ireland in the last few decades and the state of Irish teaching and learning is only part of it.

Calculators in Maths???

I agree with what your saying but calculators are a necessity for maths!

I usually do basic stuff without a calculator in an exam such as multiplying,adding and that just because I trust my knowledge over my ability to type things into a calculator.

Maths is hard enough as it is, maybe take them out of Foundation Maths (has anyone ever looked at the questions on it stuff lik 72+12 :eek:)

Maybe even stretch it as far as foundation maths but you couldn't possibly do it for anything else?

WanderingSoul

I think calculators are needed for some things in maths; do you know off the top of your head the first ten numbers in the square root of 65?

In terms of Irish, I think the syllabus needs to be changed but I would be reluctant in making it optional.

Fad

M&S* wrote: »

I agree with what your saying but calculators are a necessity for maths!

I usually do basic stuff without a calculator in an exam such as multiplying,adding and that just because I trust my knowledge over my ability to type things into a calculator.

Maths is hard enough as it is, maybe take them out of Foundation Maths (has anyone ever looked at the questions on it stuff lik 72+12 :eek:)

Maybe even stretch it as far as foundation maths but you couldn't possibly do it for anything else?

I dont think they should be used at JC level, I think it encourages laziness and discourages development of mathematical intuition. I am definitely suffering in college because of it. I have no initiative when it comes to maths, which is a serious shame, because I really like maths, but never bothered with it that much (Got an A in Pass, but never even bothered doing HL at LC level) because I assumed I wouldnt be able to get myself to a level that would get me a decent grade.

For stuff like roots, you'd just leave it in terms of the root, like root 65 = root 65.

grrrrrrrrrr

Here do the poll on the leaving cert forum !!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64482437&posted=1#post64482437

will see what the general view is once and for all

suitcasepink

I can only imagine the fun of sin, tan, coz without calculators...
Though my teacher did tell us thats how they had to do it =/

thebillynator

having irish as a choice subject would be terrible as no one would pick it and no one would study irish in IRELAND that would be like being from compton and not learning how to rap:p

WanderingSoul

I think maybe it should be compulsory for Junior Cert and optional for Leaving Cert. That way everyone would have a basic understanding of the language but each student could decide whether or not to do it for LC with perhaps extra points for doing it for LC to encourage more people to do it.

Regarding maths, I think there should also be extra points for HL maths because so many people end up failing.

Jackobyte

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Here do the poll on the leaving cert forum !!

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64482437&posted=1#post64482437

will see what the general view is once and for all

Voted for reform

WanderingSoul

As did I Jack.

spurious

WanderingSoul wrote: »

I think calculators are needed for some things in maths; do you know off the top of your head the first ten numbers in the square root of 65?

No, but in my day, we worked it out using pen and paper.
I sometimes wonder whether having to do things like that meant we actually understood what was going on in Maths, rather than just pressing buttons.

Of course it's much easier just press buttons and the answer lies somewhere between the two methods I think. I have seen many kids get wildly wrong answers while using calculators (pressing the wrong buttons) and not knowing enough basic maths to know that their answer is way out.

WanderingSoul

I think that essentially calculator use needs to be limited but not abolished.

Whether calculators are used or not, some people will get answers wildly wrong and not realize.

alleystar

Students could grow to love Irish if they had proper teachers. If teachers taught Irish to be loved not to be learned of by heart then the language could be revived. Instead we're made learn reams and reams of Irish off by heart. Sure after the exams over, who remembers that material?

We should be taught Irish as an everyday use

Zofan

I'm sorry to tell you but this Irish thing has been going on FOREVER and will definitely not get any attention in the middle of a recession!! My personal opinion is the one previously mentioned, that it should be optional after JC, purely because it's unnecessary. I also think serious reform is needed at Primary Level - I missed three years of Primary and was never at any disadvantage in Secondary School (except that I'm bad at colours??)

About the calculators - things like sin, tan and cos were given in the old math tables (you remember all the weird bits in the middle?), so calculators have nothing to do with that. Also the use of calculators is limited because you lose marks if you don't show your work in questions (that's what those little hands with pencils mean).

Blue_Seas

I actually know a lot of people at my school who would choose Irish if it was optional, however I like the idea of it being taught as an everyday language. I personally can give anyone the summary of my poem and essays and the like from the top of my head but everyday questions are lost on me.

Jackobyte

Blue_Seas wrote: »

I actually know a lot of people at my school who would choose Irish if it was optional, however I like the idea of it being taught as an everyday language. I personally can give anyone the summary of my poem and essays and the like from the top of my head but everyday questions are lost on me.

Thats why it is currently being/needs to be reformed. The new sections help this as there is now a grammar section even if it only counts for 10 marks. The second comprehension also helps everyday use as you have to understand it, not just learn meaningless essays. I expect further reform sooner rather than later so don't be surprised if next years paper has another section dealing with everyday use of the language.

spurious

WanderingSoul wrote: »

I think calculators are needed for some things in maths; do you know off the top of your head the first ten numbers in the square root of 65?

No, but I know how to work it out without a calculator.

WanderingSoul

spurious wrote: »

No, but I know how to work it out without a calculator.

However, with the amount of time given in the exam, if calculators were not allowed, no one would be able to finish the exam because of time limits.

grrrrrrrrrr

guys and girls,

look at the leaving cert forum for the same debates(irish and maths!) including polls..

pretty much the same thing but in a deeper voice!!

grrrrrrrrrr

Zofan wrote: »

I'm sorry to tell you but this Irish thing has been going on FOREVER and will definitely not get any attention in the middle of a recession!! My personal opinion is the one previously mentioned, that it should be optional after JC, purely because it's unnecessary. I also think serious reform is needed at Primary Level - I missed three years of Primary and was never at any disadvantage in Secondary School (except that I'm bad at colours??)

About the calculators - things like sin, tan and cos were given in the old math tables (you remember all the weird bits in the middle?), so calculators have nothing to do with that. Also the use of calculators is limited because you lose marks if you don't show your work in questions (that's what those little hands with pencils mean).

FYI enda kenny said that he'll abolish irish if he gets in gov


see the leaving cert forum