Jacking up car - WARNING!

Stevie Dakota

Be careful folks, if you getting under the car do it right.


Coroner warns over DIY motor care after car collapses on man

A CORONER has warned against people carrying out repairs under their cars using only jacks to support the vehicle following the death of a father of two.

Gerard Horgan (45) was killed when his car fell on him while he was preparing it for an NCT test.

Coroner for south Cork Frank O’Connell said the death of the man was the second such fatality that he had encountered in the space of 12 months.

“People should not fall into the trap of putting cars up on jacks to carry out repairs without any fixed solid support to hold up the vehicle because that is what it is, a trap – it’s a deadly dangerous practice,” warned Mr O’Connell.

He heard that Mr Horgan, Monfield, Rochestown, had been working part-time as a taxi driver.

On October 13th last year, he brought the car to the family’s farmyard near his home to carry out some repair work in preparation for an NCT test the next day.

Mr Horgan’s widow Colette told gardaí how she last saw her husband at about 5.30pm on the day in question when he borrowed the jack from her car to use along with his own jack to lift up his Toyota Avensis and carry out repair work.

She received a phone call from her sister-in-law Kay Hanley at about 6.05pm to tell her there had been an accident.

She went to the farmyard where she found her husband had been trapped beneath the car after it had collapsed on top him.

“I saw Gerard’s car had fallen down on top of him and he was pinned underneath. I got a huge fright and knew immediately that it was serious. I called to him but there was no response – I knew he was gone but I didn’t want to believe it.”

Garda Bernadette O’Connor said she responded to an emergency call and found Mr Horgan trapped under the vehicle with only his lower legs visible. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

She said that both the rear wheels had been taken off the vehicle. She found a scissors jack about a foot away from one of the wheels while another jack was found under the car.

Garda O’Connor believed the jacks were unable to support the weight of the car and it collapsed on him.

The ground was quite uneven and sloping which may have contributed to the accident, she added.

Assistant State Pathologist Dr Margaret Bolster said Mr Horgan died from traumatic asphyxia. The coroner returned a verdict of accidental death.

Zubeneschamali

Sad story: all for the sake of saving a few quid, either on getting the work done professionally, or at least buying proper kit to do it himself.

cian1500ww

I ALWAYS use axle stands, you're looking for trouble without fixed support.

Quazzie

This is why DIY mechanics are a bad thing. Hopefully his death will be a lesson to others.

cian1500ww

Quazzie wrote: »

This is why DIY mechanics are a bad thing. Hopefully his death will be a lesson to others.

I'm a DIY mechanic, whats wrong with it as long as you take the proper precautions ?

biko

No way I would trust just the jack, stands is where it's at (with additional blocks at the wheels touching ground).
If I wouldn't have a stand handy (maybe at the side of the road) then prop a tyre underneath, it'll give you a few more inches if the car drops.

Very sad altogether RIP

BlackWizard

Quazzie wrote: »

This is why DIY mechanics are a bad thing.

No it's not. Most of us are very careful so stop your scaremongering.

People should be encouraged to do DIY work on their car and to look after it well but to do so safely.

Owen

There was a thread done to death on this recently. If you do jack it up, put axle stands under it and also put your wheels underneath, or big ass blocks of timber in case the stands get knocked out. Most cheap ramps will buckle.

If you're just doing an oil change, buy an oil extractor pump.

Wossack

using 2 jacks at once is just a recipe for disaster - they've not got the base area, and are just so easy to rock over

Run_to_da_hills

Precautions and safety on working under cars should be a part of the driving test and also shown on the media as it seems happens quite a lot.

Quazzie

cian1500ww wrote: »

I'm a DIY mechanic, whats wrong with it as long as you take the proper precautions ?

BlackWizard wrote: »

No it's not. Most of us are very careful so stop your scaremongering.

People should be encouraged to do DIY work on their car and to look after it well but to do so safely.

Please proceed now to the second sentence of my post.

I'll post it again just to clarify.

Hopefully his death will be a lesson to others.

As for the use of the word scaremongering, I don't think advising the use of axle stands or other appropriate stabilizing equipment is scaremongering.

Harcrid

Quazzie wrote: »

As for the use of the word scaremongering, I don't think advising the use of axle stands or other appropriate stabilizing equipment is scaremongering.

I can't see where you gave any advice on axle stands? I only read how you dismissed all DIY mechanics in one sweep.

Owen

Who cares what who said?

Quazzie

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation of what actions they mak, what parts they use, or what safety procedures they implement. Whilst there are a lot of good DIY mechanics, the majority of them aren't. More common now with the recession hitting harder and harder we will hear stories of people who cannot change a wheel suddenly thinking the can change the brake pads on their car, on their front sloped driveway without taking the regular safety procedures to prevent such an accident as happened in the article above.

If it takes causing a bit of offence to the good guys to make the point to the bad guys then I'm sorry to cause offence but its worth it.

Henry Ford III

A trolley jack, backed up by axle stands, chocks for the wheels, and a hard level surface are all you need.

I'm quite comfortable servicing the MkII RS2000 myself using these.

dirtydiesel

I would like to advise anyone who is learning car repairs or has a basic knowledge of cars, when buying axle stands, trolley jacks, tools etc to buy quality equipiment from a motor factors and not the cheap stuff on offer in the discount supermarkets.
Cheap tools are dangerous and most fail in a short period of time.
Quality costs money but it could save you from seriuos injury.

mullingar

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A trolley jack, backed up by axle stands, chocks for the wheels, and a hard level surface are all you need..

100% agree with that list of equipment. And I always give the car a shake before I get under my 1.7tonne Lexus;)

Stoolbend

Quazzie wrote: »

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation of what actions they mak, what parts they use, or what safety procedures they implement.

Theres no regulations of what actions, parts or safety procedures qualified mechanics do, use or implement!

You dont need to be a mechanic to have a bit of knowledge and common sense.

Matt Simis

Quazzie wrote: »

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation of what actions they mak, what parts they use, or what safety procedures they implement.

Thank god I live in the free world where I dont have to document to officials (or anyone, you etc) what safety proceedures I take when I work on my car or house or well pump etc. I like to fix things and I guess I would describe myself as a DIY Mechanic, but you are the first person Ive seen to asscociate a negative connotation with the term. Someone too cheap but too ignorant to perform any task independantly does not get the "DIY" tag applied to them. Conversely, when I do bring cars to franchised garages, I find I have a greater understanding of the specific job that needs to be done than a vanila mechanic, who would have much better general knowledge than I.


Regarding safety, I dont have a hard surface unfortunately (pebbled driveway, might try to address that), but I do have a 3ton hydraulic jack and 4 (though you should never use more than 2 at once) 2-ton axle stands. I use slabs of concrete and large angled stones as chocks. As you can see, none of these are infact expensive at all.

This particular case is a sad and tragic waste of life. However, the very first thing my family taught me way back when I started to change parts, was never, ever use the manufacturer supplied emergency use only car jack when working on a car. Its for road side wheel changes only. Infact many german cars have jacks in them that can only lift up the car from specific side points and only high enough to get a wheel on and off.

The fact in this case two emergency scissor jacks were used to lift a car with two wheels removed (with no supports) then someone climbed under the car... simply shockingly ignorant. :eek:

nogoodnamesleft

Quazzie wrote: »

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation of what actions they mak, what parts they use, or what safety procedures they implement.

I find that I have a reasonable knowledge or mechanics and I am fairly thorough when I carry our DIY maintenance on my own car. I either use OEM from the main dealer or OEM quality that I get from Otto.

Some mechanics are principally worried about the time the car is taking up on the ramp, the overheads, and the profit margin thus some using questionable parts or used parts.

Its nuts going under a car with just jacks supporting it as they can and sometimes do fail, either they slip or they collapse.

Guy:Incognito

Quazzie wrote: »

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation of what actions they mak, what parts they use, or what safety procedures they implement. .

Whereas garages are always 100% on everythign saftey related?

Theres a guy , I assuem a mechanic, at a garage out the Swords road past the airport. I've driven by 2 or 3 times and seen cars up on a forlift.

dirtydiesel wrote: »

I would like to advise anyone who is learning car repairs or has a basic knowledge of cars, when buying axle stands, trolley jacks, tools etc to buy quality equipiment from a motor factors and not the cheap stuff on offer in the discount supermarkets.
Cheap tools are dangerous and most fail in a short period of time.
Quality costs money but it could save you from seriuos injury.

ANy of the stuff sold is quality tested to the same standards as stuff bought elsewhere. Quite often I'd say some of it is rebranded from exactly what you'd buy elsewhere.

The stuff in Aldi and Lidl is always Tuv approved.




I'd be interested to hear what car the wife had in the story. It says he took the jack from her car to use.

Theta

Quazzie wrote: »

I still do advise against DIY mechanics as there is no regulation .....

Are you a mechanic?

Quazzie

Theta wrote: »

Are you a mechanic?

Yes and no. I was but i changed jobs a few years back. I don't see how this has any relevance though.

Theta

Quazzie wrote: »

Yes and no. I was but i changed jobs a few years back. I don't see how this has any relevance though.

Cause you sound like one I know. He hates people doing stuff on there cars themselves because he believes there is some kind of mysticism to being a mechanic and that us little people could never do a job correctly. I do my few bits a pieces and whatever I dont have the tools for or is out of my ability I bring to someone who can do it but Ill at least try.

Let me guess you would get an electrician to change a plug because you could kill yourself doing that you know!

Run_to_da_hills

Theta wrote: »

Let me guess you would get an electrician to change a plug because you could kill yourself doing that you know!

No, more so that his union wouldn't allow him to do it.

E39MSport

Matt Simis wrote: »

I dont have a hard surface unfortunately (pebbled driveway, might try to address that), but I do have a 3ton hydraulic jack and 4 (though you should never use more than 2 at once) 2-ton axle stands. I use slabs of concrete and large angled stones as chocks.

Matt,
I'm in the same pebble drive boat. What do you use under the jack to allow it to move/roll?

I find that if you don't let the trolley jack move to compensate for the angle of lift then when you want to lower the vehicle it won't go down dead straight. Pain when trying to drop it onto stands.

Regards,

Quazzie

No. I wire plugs myself because I know how to. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do things to their cars themselves, or that there is some mysticism to mechanics, I am saying however that not every one who will take on a task on their car will be able to do it to the standard of a qualified mechanic, or with the same care and attention that the mechanic would. Many will do better than a mechanic, but unfortunately as in the case in the OP we are getting more and more have a go mechanics who end up either doing it wrong, or in the worst case scenario, as in the OP, killing himself.

Mechanics in its most basic form is pure and basic. Thats not to say that anyone can do it. My original point and one that still stands is that unfortunately most people who go about fixing/servicing their own car do so without any major knowledge of the workings of a car or the safetey procedures that should be followed. If you are not one of these people then fair play but you are in an decreasing minority as the recession hits harder.

For the record I also advise people who can't wire a plug to get someone who can rather than try and fail themselves.

I hope this clears up any issues as this will be more than likely my last post in this thread as my opinions hace sidetracked enough and is therefore dragging the thread off topic.

Matt Simis

E39MSport wrote: »

Matt,
I'm in the same pebble drive boat. What do you use under the jack to allow it to move/roll?

I find that if you don't let the trolley jack move to compensate for the angle of lift then when you want to lower the vehicle it won't go down dead straight. Pain when trying to drop it onto stands.

Regards,

I used to put a plank of wood underneath it to roll it easy, but now I generally just drag it through the pebbles.
When dropping the car down onto the stands I usually position them slightly off center (they have "cups" on top) so they slide themselves into the perfect position. As the ground isnt hard, they move when there isnt weight on them and dont get stuck at weird angles or anything.

The most annoying thing about the pebbled drive way though is the fact I cant use an undercar creeper to slide in and out US TV show style. I have to slide myself around the pebbles, which is um, kinda dirty and painful.

On the other hand, the pebbles have a slight chocking effect on the car wheels, unlike a flat hard nice to roll on surface.

cian1500ww

We also have an outdoor pit at home which makes it really easy to work on the underbody of car without having to lift it. It's a pity it's not wide enough for modern cars but it's ideal for working on the vintage cars. Well worth considering if you regularly work underneath cars.

Guy:Incognito

cian1500ww wrote: »

We also have an outdoor pit at home which makes it really easy to work on the underbody of car without having to lift it. It's a pity it's not wide enough for modern cars but it's ideal for working on the vintage cars. Well worth considering if you regularly work underneath cars.

Does it double as a paddling pool when the rain comes?:)

cian1500ww

Stekelly wrote: »

Does it double as a paddling pool when the rain comes?:)

Nope because it's not an enclosed pit

Raiser

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A trolley jack, backed up by axle stands, chocks for the wheels, and a hard level surface are all you need.

I had all of the above in place one fine afternoon while lying under my 1.5 tonnes of Japanese metal and still got the fright of my life when Ms. A Person flew into our driveway and stopped about a millimetre from my back bumper :eek:

- Would have taken a fair nudge to bring it off the axle stands in fairness but scared me enough that I now put a wheelie bin or something in place as a deterrent against folks deciding to drive too fcuking near!!!!

Voodoomelon

Raiser wrote: »

... but scared me enough that I now put a wheelie bin or something in place as a deterrent against folks deciding to drive too fcuking near!!!!

Thats a nice idea, can never be too safe.

-Corkie-

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Thats a nice idea, can never be too safe.

Exactly absolute madness using just 2 jacks and he had the two back wheels of the car as well. I read above posts and somepeople seem to have a problem with diy mechanics. You dont need to have a haynes manual memorised in your brain when you do things like a service just some cop on and obviously jacking a car without stands says that he had no cop on. Not like above po who uses axle stands and his wheelie bin as a barrier. gas man:D:D

spooky donkey

yep thats what i use and I also throw the spare under the car as an extra safe guard.

JHMEG

No-one should ever get under a car supported by a scissors jack. Not even for a split sec to pick up a €500 note.

Run_to_da_hills

JHMEG wrote: »

No-one should ever get under a car supported by a scissors jack. Not even for a split sec to pick up a €500 note.

I would never use a sizzors jack even to remove a wheel. Small trolley jacks are cheap, seen them for e25 in a plastic box in Ashgrove that would be plenty for a small car.

cian1500ww

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would never use a sizzors jack even to remove a wheel. Small trolley jacks are cheap, seen them for e25 in a plastic box in Ashgrove that would be plenty for a small car.

I wouldn't trust those cheap jacks, safer to use them just for lifting then get something underneath to support the car asap.

Run_to_da_hills

cian1500ww wrote: »

I wouldn't trust those cheap jacks, safer to use them just for lifting then get something underneath to support the car asap.

You dont need to get under your car to change a wheel

I have used one of those cheap jacks to change a wheel on a Ford Transit when I was stuck no probs.

peasant

I don't need a jack to get under my car
(can't do any work under there though)

cian1500ww

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You dont need to get under your car to change a wheel

Yes but if the jack goes the car will come down and without a wheel on you'll do a nice bit of damage.

franksm

I use axle stands, but I also put the wheels under the car once they're off. They'll help support the car should something bad happen with the stands.

BTW the 'standard' jacks that come with cars are truly awful - I have had a Vauxhall Omega and a Pug 206 slip off their jacks (thankfully during the jacking process) and that was even on purely flat tarmac. The jack in both cases was an L-shaped thing.

macroman

Very sad story. If I'm not using lifts or ramps, I insist on using axle stands. Safety practices may seem a bit OTT but as that story entailed you're better off safe than sorry.

rebel.ranter

I'm thinking about purchasing a pair of ramps. What's the consensus on them?

Run_to_da_hills

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I'm thinking about purchasing a pair of ramps. What's the consensus on them?

You couldn't go wrong with some of the sealey heavy duty range. Most factors do them and would advise on what to get for the specs of your car.

Owen

As RTDH says, go with the Heavy Duty ones, the cheap ones have been known to buckle.

CJhaughey

Matt Simis wrote: »

The most annoying thing about the pebbled drive way though is the fact I cant use an undercar creeper to slide in and out US TV show style. I have to slide myself around the pebbles, which is um, kinda dirty and painful.

I use an old refrigerator box flattened out on my gravel drive, it is thick and comfortable, plus absorbs any small spills.
Plus it was free!

USA

The scissors jacks are fine for putting the car onto axle stands, but as this story sadly highlights, NEVER go under your car with jacks as the only support. Even trolley jacks.

Bumpstop

offs, in fairness i throw everything under there axle stands two jacks various wheel rims and always make sure my mobile is within reach though mind you the wife might just come out and laugh before dropping the second jack.:rolleyes: