Shortage of pitches in Leinster

Tim Robbins

Just something I've thought about as Rugby continues to grow. Many clubs don't have enough pitches. Most clubs have an average of two pitches and field anything between 3 and 5 senior teams, and in some cases they also field a woman's team, 1 or 2 Under 21's and then a few youth teams. Many clubs also field a few mini Rugby teams so most clubs are really struggling to accommodate all their teams with pitches.

In some cases clubs that have two senior teams (Tallaght, Stillorgan) don't have their own pitches and rent them from over clubs / schools. AIB and Unidare only have one team but have no pitch of their own and have to use DCU.

Wesley share with Bective and Lansdowne.

Many clubs that trying to grow e.g. Swords I think only have one pitch.

All this means that with needs of training, pitches are getting cut up, over used and become unplayable. Boyne amd Skerries are using pitches in Balbriggan and Ashbourne because their own pitches are water logged or just unplayable.

This is surely stopping clubs grow. Clubs can't be enthusiastic about fielding another junior team if it means the first won't have a pitch in good nic to train on.

Areas where there is probably a potential to develop Rugby and set up new clubs (e.g Adamstown, Tyrrellstown etc.) must be put off by the lack of possibility of getting pitches.

Surely this should be something the branch should taking a look at.

How can the game grow otherwise?

Discuss...

Malmedicine

If Thommond in Limerick can make it work dont see why clubs in Leinster can't. They have 1 pitch at the very back of the Moyross housing estate. I dont know do they train there but thats where their 1sts play. Clubs should look at training and playing in different places to save turf. Stilorgan have UCD just down the road from them and surely they could ask to train there some nights maybe with some money going to the hosting club for floodlight expenses etc?

Amazotheamazing

Malmedicine wrote: »

If Thommond in Limerick can make it work dont see why clubs in Leinster can't. They have 1 pitch at the very back of the Moyross housing estate. I dont know do they train there but thats where their 1sts play. Clubs should look at training and playing in different places to save turf. Stilorgan have UCD just down the road from them and surely they could ask to train there some nights maybe with some money going to the hosting club for floodlight expenses etc?

Afaik, Thomond are working on getting more pitches in Knocknalisheen.

Downtime

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Wesley share with Bective and Lansdowne.

Lansdowne and Wesley ground share in Ballycorus road which they have done for many years. Wesley and Bective share Donnybrook and Bective have their own pitch in Glenamuck. Between them they have seven pitches which is more than enough. 2 pitches is plenty for any club. My club only have 2 and have nine teams and there is hardly ever a problem. Sure they have to play on mucky pitches for half the season but not a big issue. I don't think the branch can do very much about it. Clubs seem good at sourcing other pitches for their games if their own in unplayable. I dont think Skerries have played at home in 3 months. I dont think this has stopped them growing or other clubs. Look at Stillorgan - one of the biggest club growths in many years and they share grounds with CUS.

Tim Robbins

Downtime wrote: »

Lansdowne and Wesley ground share in Ballycorus road which they have done for many years. Wesley and Bective share Donnybrook and Bective have their own pitch in Glenamuck. Between them they have seven pitches which is more than enough. 2 pitches is plenty for any club. My club only have 2 and have nine teams and there is hardly ever a problem. Sure they have to play on mucky pitches for half the season but not a big issue. I don't think the branch can do very much about it. Clubs seem good at sourcing other pitches for their games if their own in unplayable. I dont think Skerries have played at home in 3 months. I dont think this has stopped them growing or other clubs. Look at Stillorgan - one of the biggest club growths in many years and they share grounds with CUS.

I heard that a developer wanted to use the pitch Stillorgan rent from CUS but didn't get planning permission.

stephen_n

It does seem to be a problem and especially for new clubs starting up. Milmount can't find pitches anywhere on the northside. There seems to be a problem with rugby using the phoenix park pitches, but council pitches may be the way forward for new clubs. We use Tymon which we share with Tallaght and that was engineered through the branch as far as I know, when they were trying to grow rugby in the area. So maybe that's something the branch could look at doing on a more widespread basis, dealing with the councils to get more rugby pitches.

Some clubs have sold off their pitches though. Greystones had four pitches at Doctor Hickey park when I was playing there and another one up in Killcoole which was sold for development and they also sold land beside the club for development to. As Lansdowne and Wesley did in Kilgobbin but they got better pitches in ballycorus on the back of that so fair deal for them. I don't think this affects the established clubs as much but it will affect the growth of the game!

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

It does seem to be a problem and especially for new clubs starting up. Milmount can't find pitches anywhere on the northside. There seems to be a problem with rugby using the phoenix park pitches, but council pitches may be the way forward for new clubs. We use Tymon which we share with Tallaght and that was engineered through the branch as far as I know, when they were trying to grow rugby in the area. So maybe that's something the branch could look at doing on a more widespread basis, dealing with the councils to get more rugby pitches.

Some clubs have sold off their pitches though. Greystones had four pitches at Doctor Hickey park when I was playing there and another one up in Killcoole which was sold for development and they also sold land beside the club for development to. As Lansdowne and Wesley did in Kilgobbin but they got better pitches in ballycorus on the back of that so fair deal for them. I don't think this affects the established clubs as much but it will affect the growth of the game!

Excatly. Swords has a population of 25,000 - 30,000. But they have one pitch out in Alsaa - it's hardly perfect.

All the new schools playing Rugby are using pitches of local clubs. But that's hardly sustainable.

d'Oracle

stephen_n wrote: »

Greystones had four pitches at Doctor Hickey park when I was playing there a

Still do.

More to point, every inch of green space had houses put down on for the last god knows how long.
With Local authorities now under pressure to deliver on sustainable practices, I believe that providing green spaces for sports use should be a big part of strategy down the line.

Maybe clubs like swords should be looking to local authorities to put together rugby pitches....

Tim Robbins

d'Oracle wrote: »

Maybe clubs like swords should be looking to local authorities to put together rugby pitches....

I'd like to see some policy coming from a higher level thought. Clontarf recently got a all surface rugby pitch there beside the dart station - not for the exclusive use of rugby but something that can be shared with other sports. I think this could be a way to go. It would be interesting to know what was behind the council decisions here. Clontarf should be making use of it as they only have two pitches and have a rake of teams playing for them.

j4supporter

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I heard that a developer wanted to use the pitch Stillorgan rent from CUS but didn't get planning permission.

This is the same as the Postal club where Tallaght play. Durkan developers tried to buy the P&T club out a few years ago. Also Shamrock Rovers tried to buy the Lease for the pitch which tallaght use in the Postal club.

d'Oracle

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'd like to see some policy coming from a higher level thought. Clontarf recently got a all surface rugby pitch there beside the dart station - not for the exclusive use of rugby but something that can be shared with other sports. I think this could be a way to go. It would be interesting to know what was behind the council decisions here. Clontarf should be making use of it as they only have two pitches and have a rake of teams playing for them.

Is that what that is?

I know that approach the eye of the local authorities.

I worry Rugby's rep as a "rich persons game" may be of hindrance though.
Again, its the newer clubs that need looking after here though.

twinytwo

Is it surprising?... the governments attitude towards sport in this country is a joke, if its not gaa it dont count.

Tim Robbins

If you look at some of the facilities that the older clubs such as Mary's have - how much would that cost if bought brand new?

Probably about 25 Million.

How are new clubs supposed to grow when land is still so expensive?

shoutman

AFAIK Clontarf Rugby club have got absolutely nothing to do with those pitches beside the dart station.
They look like they are ready to go but we (Junior sides in the club) have heard nothing with regards to who is using it, or indeed if the rugby club will use it at all.

As Tim Robbins pointed out, Clontarf have two pitches. Essentially the firsts match pitch and a training pitch. This year it has held up reasonably well but in previous years there hasn't been a blade of grass on it coming up to christmas.

There is no room for expansion in Castle Avenue itself (unless we could get rid of that pesky cricket pitch ) But there are grounds at St Pauls (St annes park) and Mount Temple schools which could be used.
On a sunday morning some of the underage teams train up in saint pauls but very rarely any matchs from Under 16 upwards are played outside of Castle Avenue.

I think pitches are there, clubs just have to negotiate and be flexible in playing some home games away from their clubhouse.

shoutman

twinytwo wrote: »

Is it surprising?... the governments attitude towards sport in this country is a joke, if its not gaa it dont count.

I think the government can always be used as a scapegoat. It's up clubs themselves to raise money etc. A few years back when Clontarf got floodlights and redeveloped the changing rooms and the training pitch it was done through fundraising and lottery funding.
Obviously we are in a advantageous position given that it is a community club in a middle class suburb of dublin, but any club can apply for lottery funding!

I would like to see more interaction with clubs and the various city councils. Plenty of pitchs in parks etc that seem to go unused.

twinytwo

shoutman wrote: »

I think the government can always be used as a scapegoat. It's up clubs themselves to raise money etc. A few years back when Clontarf got floodlights and redeveloped the changing rooms and the training pitch it was done through fundraising and lottery funding.
Obviously we are in a advantageous position given that it is a community club in a middle class suburb of dublin, but any club can apply for lottery funding!

I would like to see more interaction with clubs and the various city councils. Plenty of pitchs in parks etc that seem to go unused.

Trying to get land in the cities/towns would be impossible/ cost an arm a leg and prob a kidney. Have you been to france?.. the sporting facalities are unbelieveable and they dont just cater for one sport. Least we not forget the government had no problem handing millions of the tax payers money to help develop Croke Park for the Gaa

d'Oracle

How long ago was that?

I played a match on that "training pitch", maybe before it got redeveloped.
It was frickin horrible, like playing on a beach.

Tim Robbins

shoutman wrote: »

I think the government can always be used as a scapegoat. It's up clubs themselves to raise money etc. A few years back when Clontarf got floodlights and redeveloped the changing rooms and the training pitch it was done through fundraising and lottery funding.
Obviously we are in a advantageous position given that it is a community club in a middle class suburb of dublin, but any club can apply for lottery funding!

I would like to see more interaction with clubs and the various city councils. Plenty of pitchs in parks etc that seem to go unused.

Surely Clontarf need to negotiate some sort of long term arrangement with the all surface pitch - even if it just for training?

stephen_n

shoutman wrote: »

I would like to see more interaction with clubs and the various city councils. Plenty of pitchs in parks etc that seem to go unused.

Yes and yet on the northside in particular rugby can't get a look in, we tried to get the phoenix park on several occasions but it's a no go and as I said Milmount have looked all over Dublin with no joy. There seems to be a bias against rugby in the Fingal County Council for what ever reason!

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes and yet on the northside in particular rugby can't get a look in, we tried to get the phoenix park on several occasions but it's a no go and as I said Milmount have looked all over Dublin with no joy. There seems to be a bias against rugby in the Fingal County Council for what ever reason!

And there need to be some support for clubs like Milmount coming from a higher level, otherwise they'll just give up.

jprender

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Excatly. Swords has a population of 25,000 - 30,000. But they have one pitch out in Alsaa - it's hardly perfect.

Swords actually have 2 pitches, both at ALSAA.

Tim Robbins

jprender wrote: »

Swords actually have 2 pitches, both at ALSAA.

Do RCSI play there or do they have their own pitches out that way?

Downtime

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Do RCSI play there or do they have their own pitches out that way?

RCSI have their own pitches in Dardistown in the RSCI sports complex. Millmount use ALSAA but they cant field teams which is why many of their games are cancelled - due to work commitments.

Tim Robbins

Downtime wrote: »

RCSI have their own pitches in Dardistown in the RSCI sports complex. Millmount use ALSAA but they cant field teams which is why many of their games are cancelled - due to work commitments.

Is Dardistown very near Alsaa?

Luckycharm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I heard that a developer wanted to use the pitch Stillorgan rent from CUS but didn't get planning permission.

The pitch Stillorgan play on was actually sold for alot of money 3 years ago but the developer has not been able to get planning permission. Stillorgan could not afford to rent from UCD and not sure UCD would rent to us anyway.

Zuffer

There are lots of pitches in UCD, but they are used by a number of sports, not just rugby, soccer, gaelic and hurling, but also lots of smaller sports. There are also lots of student run events, which are not part of the main club activities, which use the facilities. If you drive around UCD in the evenings or weekend, chances are you'll see a lot of their pitches in use.

jprender

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Is Dardistown very near Alsaa?

Yeah it is close by, a bit closer to Santry than ALSAA.