Question from a boxing coach!!!!!

John Ferguson

After a busy week of debate on here (MMA for the money, Too Many shows etc) I was asked an odd question at Cage Contender by a boxing coach!!

Whilst I was telling him about how many shows are coming up he asked "that's alot of shows...... But what happens if a club have a local show close to a bigger promotion and the promotion come with a match up. Do the club keep the fighter for their show cos as a local he will sell plenty of tickets or let him fight on the bigger promotion where there could be better opportunities?"

I told him I had no idea as I'm not connected to any club... What are your views guys??

John Ferguson
www.cagecontender.net

Barry.Oglesby

It would want to be some promotion I'd say. Most promotions are seperated by small degrees and there's no show operating in Ireland that can offer a massive boon to any fighter right now. If one of the bigger English shows came a knocking that would be another story.

Martin Walker

It depends really.

Normally i will have our Pro fighters matched for quite some time. And if ive promised a promotion a fighter they follow through. Unless of course in the event of injury. It dosnt matter if we decide to put a show on close to the other one. Its booked. We dont use contracts so its all down to your word.
However if we had a fighter matched with a local show and one of the "bigger" shows from England or Europe come calling for the same weekend i would simply call the first show and explain the situation. This has happened in the past with us and the first promotion had no problem re-arranging the fight for later in the year.

On the subject of holding fighters to sell tickets i think any promotion that thinks that way needs to look at why they are doing what they are doing. The main reason for us to put on shows was to get the younger guys out in a more friendly enviroment. We have a really small pool af fighters compared to the longer established clubs but ive never had problems selling out our shows even if our "main" crowd pullers arnt in action. The last show i put on for example was our biggest and neither Carney, Begley, Cooke or Henderson took part.
Good solid matchmaking and clever advertising sells tickets.

And one more thing! How dare you all have debates on touchy subjects when im out of the country and cant get to a computer? You all know how i like to throw my opinion about.;)

John Ferguson

Martin Walker wrote: »

You all know how i like to throw my opinion about.;)

Hmmmm.... I find that very hard to believe!!!!

Jason McCabe

John, who do you consider the bigger promotions in ireland?

markfightie

Well everyone would have their own opinions on who the bigger/biggest promotions

do you base your size of promotion on any or a mixture of these:

1, bums on seats
2, production value
3, publicity - newspapers, television, internet etc.
4, exposure - which shows are being looked at by international promotions
5, contacts - who has the contacts to move fighters onto bigger things
6, fight purses
7, match making - whos trying to bring the fights that people want to see

or do you base it on, i was here first so mines the biggest

cowzerp

markfightie wrote: »

Well everyone would have their own opinions on who the bigger/biggest promotions

do you base your size of promotion on any or a mixture of these:

1, bums on seats
2, production value
3, publicity - newspapers, television, internet etc.
4, exposure - which shows are being looked at by international promotions
5, contacts - who has the contacts to move fighters onto bigger things
6, fight purses
7, match making - whos trying to bring the fights that people want to see

or do you base it on, i was here first so mines the biggest

Bums on seats is important in how big the show is,

contacts, im pretty sure most the promotions have lots of these but they may not to use them-im happy with how my show is, relaxed and a a nice show to wet your feet on.

Fight purses is a big 1, if your not paying the best purses then you cant be the biggest show, imo.

Match making, the biggest shows should aim to put on the biggest fights-therefore this would be of utmost importance to size of show-also without been funny, at the moment i dont think the fans know or care who fights who, they just want to see well matched fights.

Jason McCabe

Well EFR is by no means a large Venue but I would consider holding one of their titles a big acheivement due to the roster that they bring and the general standard of fights


Cage Wars I still see as the big show and most fighters as such probably aspire to being on their card or getting on a big show abroad

Anakin.S

As a paying customer,

I want to the best fights
To see the best fights the promotion needs to pay a good purse
To pay a good purse the promotion needs 'bums on seats'
To get bums on seats the promotion needs good publicity

A good production value is essential for repeat business, no matter how good the fights are if the venue is a dive or there is crowd trouble I'll not go back.

A well produced show with the best fighters will naturally draw 'contacts'
for bigger and better shows

Martin Walker

Cage Wars is without a doubt the biggest MMA show in Ireland.

All the other shows are very similar. What separates the rest is how well they are run.

juijitsu black

as I'm not connected to any club... What are your views guys??

John Ferguson
www.cagecontender.net[/QUOTE]

If you are not involved in any club John, why are you running your own shows?

Just wondering as I think the people like paul, jason, barry, mark etc etc. who bust their backside coaching and training people are the ones who should be holding shows and mabey getting a few euro/pound for their club and if there is any dosh left... for themselves. Just my 2 cents.

Barry.Oglesby

Confession.

I've never been to Cage Wars.

Martin Walker

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Confession.

I've never been to Cage Wars.

Sorry......
But in fairness its quite a good show. I loved the old EFR pro shows too but there hasnt been one in ages. Pity

cowzerp

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Confession.

I've never been to Cage Wars.

TBH its just like going to any other show but there is more spectators and usually a marquee name against a nobody to sell tickets, i'd go again in future but would be just as happy to go to any of the other shows and like Martin i enjoyed the old EFR shows, Not a slight on cage wars but with only 1 show a year i dont view it as that important, if they done 3-4 in Ireland with full pro cards that would be cool, its next to impossible to put on lots of pro fights on small scale shows so that would be good for irish pro MMA..

Anakin.S

juijitsu black wrote: »

If you are not involved in any club John, why are you running your own shows?

Just wondering as I think the people like paul, jason, barry, mark etc etc. who bust their backside coaching and training people are the ones who should be holding shows and mabey getting a few euro/pound for their club and if there is any dosh left... for themselves. Just my 2 cents.

Do the pro fighters in Ireland not pay for their coaching?
Good coaches are extremely hard to find and should be getting paid for the job they do.
I agree that clubs should be holding shows as fundraisers, but for MMA to progress in Ireland you need independently run shows that have no affiliation with any specific club.
Obviously independent shows need the cooperation of the clubs participating and the clubs need to financially compensated for at least travel when their top fighters are on an independent card.

For MMA to progress in Ireland it needs to move out of the MMA fraternity and get more people with no connection to either fighters fighting on the night or clubs attending to pay in.

John Ferguson

juijitsu black wrote: »

If you are not involved in any club John, why are you running your own shows?

Because I'm a promoter, and that's what promoters do!!!:D

cowzerp

Anakin.S wrote: »

Do the pro fighters in Ireland not pay for their coaching?
Good coaches are extremely hard to find and should be getting paid for the job they do.

I don't charge my Pro fighters for training as there the fighters that promote the club, a small percentage of there purses go to the club but this would not cover training expenses at all and is more a gesture than anything..

Anakin.S

I understand where you are coming from, makes house shows even more important for club than I initially thought.
I’m defiantly going to have to catch more club shows.
I can understand why some people would get annoyed at crew for putting on an independent show but at least he is investing in Irish MMA

juijitsu black

I can understand why some people would get annoyed at crew for putting on an independent show but at least he is investing in Irish MMA[/QUOTE]

Thats the problem !! These independen shows are lining their own pockets and not investing in Irish MMA. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Anakin.S

juijitsu black wrote: »

Yo Karl, Wat is the record for your fighters? We hav 7 or 10 lads here in our club looking for match ups. We treat our Fighters the same as UK and USA coaches and let them decide who they wana fight, and when they want to compete!!!!!!!!!!! Not like the few clubs who want to control fighters and take money from them. We hav two world champ Kickboxers, Two europen silver medelasits and 6 Irish Jui jitsu champs in my club aswell as loads other well rounded fightgers. Just post thr records of ther fighters you want to match upm and im sure you will get sorted, Thanks man.

This post is on another thread but you obviously have a club. Do you refuse to send fighters to other peoples shows then?

Raze_them_all

juijitsu black wrote: »

I can understand why some people would get annoyed at crew for putting on an independent show but at least he is investing in Irish MMA

Thats the problem !! These independen shows are lining their own pockets and not investing in Irish MMA. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:[/QUOTE]
Not invest in Irish mma??

The lads have set up a quality show. They came here first to guage interest and see if there was room for another show and took criticisms onboard (IIRC) They then went out, set up the show out of their own pocket, relying soley on other gyms for fighters, They put on a card with no allegiance to any fighter or gym which usually means very well matched up fights. They give up and coming fighters a chance to fight and recently signed as a feeder show to Cage wars which means talent will get aired over stateside.

I don't exactly see a problem with them, they do quite alot for Irish mma, both fighters and fans alike.