It's a funny old game this fishing!

ladybirdirl

So as some of you may know, I only re-discovered fishing last year.

Since then I've gone to the fisheries a few times & gotten a whole new set up, rod,reel etc (thank you Santa again:))
I keep a notebook with the details of what I've used & what happened (how analytical am I :rolleyes:) & anything else I can think of

Anyway it occurs to me that as of yet I've found no rhyme or reason to this fishing lark..is this just me as a newbie?

Using the same fly or using the recommended fly, using a floater thing or not, I cannot find 1 pattern. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, still loving it & I think still improving but aarrrggghhh
Tell me everyone else has found this too please?



LB

Rycn

ladybirdirl wrote: »

f
Anyway it occurs to me that as of yet I've found no rhyme or reason to this fishing lark..is this just me as a newbie?

Using the same fly or using the recommended fly, using a floater thing or not, I cannot find 1 pattern. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, still loving it & I think still improving but aarrrggghhh
Tell me everyone else has found this too please?
LB

Dont understand what you mean can u be more specific? Thanks

ladybirdirl

Take for example fishing in the recent cold snap

The fish move down lower in the water right (thanks for my previous thread guys:o), therefore I would have assumed that a sinking line & wet fly would have worked perfectly in this situation..they didn't

Also in Annamoe, it was recommended to use bloodworms to catch on the day...again that didn't work

Notwithstanding my lack of skill, I do hanker for a little pattern..e.g. let the same fly work 2 days in a row or something:D

Just an observation from my limited experience

Lb

coolwings

Well it's all down to knowing what they eat and where they will find it.
You represent what they eat, at that location and the fish see your offering without seeing you first and that's it!

So bear in mind that trout are insectivores first, and opportunists that eat whatever thay can catch second. So it's a good idea to study the life cycles of the little bugs they eat as the seasons change - shrimp (gammarus), water boatmen (corixa), midges (chironomids), sedges, mayflies, beetles and olives. Most bugs have the insect stages of life: larva - a grub, nymph or pupa - swimming about in the water, and adult - above water in the air with wings. So we have a couple of ways to imitate each bug.
the books by John Goddard are excellent on showing photos of the different stages of each bug so we can recognise them at the waterside and choose the right fly.

Because they specialise in hunting tiny food items trout have excellent eyesight. Their eyesight is best in low light so they hunt in the twilight of day-night mostly, but not exclusively. This makes them averse to brightness. So we tend to fish deep in daylight and shallower in darkness.

So first learn to manipulate the fly rod to make the fly go where you want and move they way you want as best you can.

Then stay out of sight.

Then apply your new knowledge of the insects that trout eat at different times of year, and different times of day, and choose the correct fly, or an approximation of it.

Two books are very good at describing this Lake Fly-Fishing Manifesto by Mike Croft (ignore that he fishes from afloat tube, it's just a really good book at passing the infor about fish and food on), or fly Fishing Trout Lakes by Skip morris and Brian Chan.

Locating where to cast ... that is a combination of the fish having cover, and where the food is hiding.

Good fishing is a combination of all these things. The Pursuit of Stillwater Trout by Brian Clarke describes the learning and evolution process of Brian from a chuck it and take a chance type angler to an organised more effective angler.

There are some pages on my float tubing website about trout habits, and about reading lakes to know where the fish and their food is. They might be helpful to read.

Over time and with practise and study the luck goes out of it, and the results get a whole lot better. That notebook? It's the deadliest weapon you have. Just about all the anglers I have a lot of respect for keep a fishing diary or log. As it fills up, all sorts of little observations that might be forgotten are still in there to remind you. Like when you caugh one but the guy across the way got three, and what he did different that day. Stuff like that counts a lot.

ladybirdirl

Thanks so much coolwings..

I did think the notebook would be a good idea but then I got a bit ahead of myself I reckon, a handful of entries will not a pattern maek

I did get a great book on fishing for Xmas which has a bit about the insect stages in it,must also look up the books you mentioned.

Of course patience would also be a great help, not something I have a lot of though;)

LB

Rycn

coolwings wrote: »

Well it's all down to knowing what they eat and where they will find it.
You represent what they eat, at that location and the fish see your offering without seeing you first and that's it!

So bear in mind that trout are insectivores first, and opportunists that eat whatever thay can catch second. So it's a good idea to study the life cycles of the little bugs they eat as the seasons change - shrimp (gammarus), water boatmen (corixa), midges (chironomids), sedges, mayflies, beetles and olives. Most bugs have the insect stages of life: larva - a grub, nymph or pupa - swimming about in the water, and adult - above water in the air with wings. So we have a couple of ways to imitate each bug.
the books by John Goddard are excellent on showing photos of the different stages of each bug so we can recognise them at the waterside and choose the right fly.

Because they specialise in hunting tiny food items trout have excellent eyesight. Their eyesight is best in low light so they hunt in the twilight of day-night mostly, but not exclusively. This makes them averse to brightness. So we tend to fish deep in daylight and shallower in darkness.

So first learn to manipulate the fly rod to make the fly go where you want and move they way you want as best you can.

Then stay out of sight.

Then apply your new knowledge of the insects that trout eat at different times of year, and different times of day, and choose the correct fly, or an approximation of it.

Two books are very good at describing this Lake Fly-Fishing Manifesto by Mike Croft (ignore that he fishes from afloat tube, it's just a really good book at passing the infor about fish and food on), or fly Fishing Trout Lakes by Skip morris and Brian Chan.

Locating where to cast ... that is a combination of the fish having cover, and where the food is hiding.

Good fishing is a combination of all these things. The Pursuit of Stillwater Trout by Brian Clarke describes the learning and evolution process of Brian from a chuck it and take a chance type angler to an organised more effective angler.

There are some pages on my float tubing website about trout habits, and about reading lakes to know where the fish and their food is. They might be helpful to read.

Over time and with practise and study the luck goes out of it, and the results get a whole lot better. That notebook? It's the deadliest weapon you have. Just about all the anglers I have a lot of respect for keep a fishing diary or log. As it fills up, all sorts of little observations that might be forgotten are still in there to remind you. Like when you caugh one but the guy across the way got three, and what he did different that day. Stuff like that counts a lot.

Matching The Hatch by Pat O' Reilly is a great book to get started learning about what trout and salmon feed, and also about the fish themselves.

Great post coolwings.

ironbluedun

Not too much to add to the good advice above. Just keep observing watch the fish and the creatures of their environment. Give the fish what they want. You need to brush up on Entomology (study of aquatic insects) but don’t get too bogged down stick to the basics and take it one step at a time. Focus on the principle items of the trout’s menu. Buzzers, Olives, Mayflies, Sedge, Terrestrials, fry etc. And locate the fish then show them some imitation to match what they are feeding on. An angler who fishes with a buzzer pattern during a hatch of sedges has lost the whole point of angling.
I often laugh to myself when I hear non anglers describing angling as merely sitting by a river or canal and just holding a rod waiting for a fish to oblige. As we travel through a life’s angling journey it doesn’t take too long to realise that there is far more to it than that simplistic view.

Don’t loose heart it does take time and most importantly experience. We all went through it.

SeaFields

And, as always, don't be afraid to ask other anglers. 99.9% of fellow anglers will only be too happy to through some advice your way and show you various patterns which are successful on the water.

bernard0368

" The notebook" well thumbed, scruffy, wet patches but loved. Has saved many a blank.

Wibbs

I'd also add in my humble, presentation is damn near 50% of it(if not more). I've seen guys with picture perfect presentation go up a river and winkle trout out of runs where the conditions and the fly choice would suggest otherwise.

I watched an uncle of mine(ex irish international) many moons ago sadly no longer with us, go up a river fishing a dry fly in the "wrong" conditions with no hatch and rising and hooking trout after trout. All on the same fly too. In his case a tups indispensable. Except for sedges or mayflys or specific hatches like that, it was all he used in his dry fly canon, just in different sizes.

Confidence and presentation are a helluva lot of it. Trout anyway, unless zoned in on a very particular food item are opportunistic feeders. Present it right and more often than not they'll likely give it a go.

Personally for quite a number of years I tried to "match the hatch" with increasing degrees of anality(not a word but should be ). When I got simpler and restricted myself to fewer dry flies but looked to my presentation I got many more fish to take.

On patterns, many patterns are very effective yet look nothing like the natural. While a trouts eyesight is remarkable the brain behind it will be triggered by other things. Too often flies attract anglers more than they attract fish. I once saw my dad proving this point to me and a friend. The doldrums of a hot august day and trout barely moving or smutting at the surface. he tied on a lurid green mayfly and put it on the nose of a trout and soon after it was on the bank.

Thats rivers of course where trout have less time to consider a yay or nay. Lakes or very slow runs on a river are a different prospect.

ironbluedun

Good post. I do agree with the vast majority of what you say. I would imagine that your points relate more to dry river fishing rather than wet lough style. I do agree what you are saying about dry-fly fishing, you do not need an exact replica or representation of the natural insect. I think regarding fly pattern the size and silhouette are more important factors for the dry-fly. And yes of course accurate delicate presentation is critical a poor cast a splash etc does spook the fish even on a lough with a decent ripple on the water.

However regarding wet fly, which I think the original post was mostly about. We do need to be more selective as the fly being sub-surface is more in the fish’s ‘world’ so to speak. Generally, on a lough depending upon wind and light conditions, the trout will have more time to look at the fly. And on a small Stillwater probably even more time. And I believe that in wet fly this factor is a big difference so you will have better chance with a more accurate, but not necessarily identical, representation of what is hatching. For example the Firey Brown, March Brown or Hare’s Ear are commonly used to represent a hog-louse or freshwater shrimp, yet they do not really look identical to the natural insect itself, but in this instance you would not use a fly such as a Green Peter or mayfly pattern as they are too far removed from the natural insect hatching at that particular time.

Whereas in dry-fly it is slightly different for example when spent gnat fishing on a lough a lot of anglers I know will use a Balling Buzzer on the top dropper. The Balling Buzzer to me looks nothing like a spent gnat pattern, yet during a rise to the spent gnat a trout will take it even though there are no natural buzzers to be seen! So we ask why do the trout take it? Well because it appears to them differently than it does to us. The reason as to why trout take nothing like the natural is (I believe personal opinion) more to do with the way the fish sees the fly, or the reflection of the fly, the angle of the light source (the sun), the prevailing light levels. Light levels have a huge influence on wet and dry fly-fishing. It is widely believed that the best fly patterns are those that are not tied too bulky and allow a transmission of light through their make up so they shine like stained glass. This is a view I concur with.

This is a fascinating debate that has gone on for years, there is nothing new in angling, many new or novice anglers ignore traditional wisdom and traditional tactics, this is their mistake.

coolwings

Michael Kennedy wrote a handbook called "Trout Flies for Irish Waters" which is very useful. Only thing is he used the proposed (at the time) "new" hook sizes for dry flies, but it never caught on. So for dry flies in the booklet convert to the "old" sizes we all use by subtracting the number from 15.

It was a download on the Central Fisheries Board website as a pdf.
I do not think the page it was linked from on is still there, but the download link I saved still works.
http://www.cfb.ie/pdf/troutflies.pdf

Given that they are setting up a new website and any bad links in the cfb.ie website get redirected to it, you probably should "get 'em while they're hot". I suggest anyone who finds this booklet useful should save their own copy of the pdf version while it's available.

ironbluedun

Yes, i saw that booklet before its a good read alright. and its free

Wibbs

ironbluedun wrote: »

I do agree with the vast majority of what you say. I would imagine that your points relate more to dry river fishing rather than wet lough style.

Oh god yea. River dry fly. Might explain why I could never get the hang of wet fly to any great degree of success. Ditto for lakes, unless its a Sheelin type scenario where they're actively taking flies on the surface as if it was a river. I'd agree with you 100% on the wet fly(and nymph).