Pricing help please

Chippy01

I posted a short while back about changing my car, with the possibility of going hybrid.
I got all sorts of replies suggesting I go for diesel, think again, try one out first, etc, ect.
I appreciate all the replies I recieved, and am still doing some homework.
But I've hit a bit of a stumbling block. My old car.
I've checked on various sites regarding similar models, and they are all priced much higher than the insults I've been offered so far.
My old car is a 2000 Lexus GS300, full Lexus service history, excellent condition, and only 66,000 miles up on the clock. I'm the second owner.
I've been thinking about putting her up on Carzone, CBG, etc, and trying to find her a good home privately; but after reading the scams thread, now I'm not so sure.
Would €7,000 be a fair price, or am I being a bit optomistic?
Thanks in advance.

colm_mcm

5000 is more realistic I'm afraid.

presuming it's a good colour and has NCT, the mileage is in it's favour but I can't see anyone paying over the odds for it privately.

Mr Benevolent

Yep, €5k is about right, be prepared to go to €4700. They're not that popular at the moment as a used buy.

mickdw

They are a very fine car. What are you looking to buy?
Surely the only hybrid that will suit will be Lexus. A diesel just might not do you coming from your super smooth GS.
GS450h maybe?

Bigus

Very hard to sell cars at the mo that cost 1566 a year to tax


This is what you're up against he's asking 3500 prob buy for 2500 or dare i say 1900 Ok its 99 and higher miles but nice colour and wheels

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1123417

colm_mcm

Forgot to say, NCT, tyres, history and condition are ctirical on a car like this. I think you're looking at an older buyer.

Chippy01

mickdw wrote: »

They are a very fine car. What are you looking to buy?
Surely the only hybrid that will suit will be Lexus. A diesel just might not do you coming from your super smooth GS.
GS450h maybe?

The GS450H would have been my replacement, but due to changing circumstances it's now way out of my reach, and I can no longer justify my lovely GS.
With the offers I've recieved so far, I feel as if I'll be giving it away.:(

kazul

Why are you so sure you want rid? Get some value out of it, unless you're doing big miles and spending a lot on fuel.

Bigus

Road Tax on GS 1566 Road Tax on 2008 Prius 108. Hybrids good way to go to save loss of status ... did it my self

Chippy01

Bigus wrote: »

Road Tax on GS 1566 Road Tax on 2008 Prius 108. Hybrids good way to go to save loss of status ... did it my self

Being an older car the road tax is €1293, which is still a bit much really.
To get the €108 Hybrid tax I would have to go to 2008 or later. Earlier hybrids are still taxed by thier engine size (1.5, 1.4, etc).
In todays climate, the more I look at it, the more I feel I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Still searching nonetheless.

Tigger

please don't buy a hybrid

i'd keep the lex its a nice car

mickdw

Chippy01 wrote: »

Being an older car the road tax is €1293, which is still a bit much really.
To get the €108 Hybrid tax I would have to go to 2008 or later. Earlier hybrids are still taxed by thier engine size (1.5, 1.4, etc).
In todays climate, the more I look at it, the more I feel I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Still searching nonetheless.

Are ya looking to get something cheaper to run for about the same purchase cost or are you trading up?
What type of costs are you looking at? €600 tax? and better MPG?

Chippy01

mickdw wrote: »

Are ya looking to get something cheaper to run for about the same purchase cost or are you trading up?
What type of costs are you looking at? €600 tax? and better MPG?

I'm probably looking for the impossible really.
Would like to move up a few years; drop the road tax to something resembleing 'repectable', that in itself should improve MPG; plus the fact that I have gotten used to all the 'toys' Lexus build in as standard (leather, climate, cruise, ect).
Getting a fair price for my GS is also a priority.

Tigger

whats fair
you won't get 3k

galwaytt

Chippy01 wrote: »

I posted a short while back about changing my car, with the possibility of going hybrid.
I got all sorts of replies suggesting I go for diesel, think again, try one out first, etc, ect.
I appreciate all the replies I recieved, and am still doing some homework.
But I've hit a bit of a stumbling block. My old car.
I've checked on various sites regarding similar models, and they are all priced much higher than the insults I've been offered so far.
My old car is a 2000 Lexus GS300, full Lexus service history, excellent condition, and only 66,000 miles up on the clock. I'm the second owner.
I've been thinking about putting her up on Carzone, CBG, etc, and trying to find her a good home privately; but after reading the scams thread, now I'm not so sure.
Would €7,000 be a fair price, or am I being a bit optomistic?
Thanks in advance.

Glad to hear you still not a Prius owner

Tbh, you need to sit down and do the sums. Look at it this way, your Lexus is, I'm guessing, paid for. A shiney new XXX, won't be, not for a long time. In the interim, sure, you'll have a shiney new car, low tax(not a Prius), reasonable mpg(Prius) or fantastic mpg (any small diesel car except a Prius), but, and here's the kicker: a nice big car payment every month, as well. Furthermore, the finance will have interest attached. So, get out a piece of paper, and write down, in one column, what the 'new small shiney costs', which is

Finance per month
Fuel
Tax
Depreciation

Then do the same for the Lexus. I think you'll find that even with fuel and tax, that the Lexus is still cheaper to run, and a far nicer place to be.

For this exercise, I'm going to value your Lexus at 3500, and worth 500 for parts at the end of 3 years. (heresy, I know....but bear with me......)

Here's what I'm guessing you'll find, based on you buying a €15k car, over 3 years (as per your previous posts, iirc...) I'm going to go on 12k kms a year, btw.

I'll go on the premise that servicing and insurance are like-for-like, with a bit of shopping and prudence.

Shiney New-ish ...vs...Lovely Lexus Luxobarge
Finance 5088.00..vs...0.00
Fuel 849.00 (45mpg@1.17 per litre)...vs...1660.00 (25mpg @ 1.27/litre)
Tax 445.00 (1.6 Diesel) ...vs...1566.00
Depreciation 2000.00...vs...1000.00
Total, p.a. 8316.00...vs...4226.00
Total. p.m. 698.00...vs...352.16

So, neither car tax, nor fuel, is the problem.

Strange, but true. But there again I sold an 3 mth old Galaxy Zetec to buy a 3.0 Porsche, so I'm not doing this off my head.

You can play with the above figures to your hearts content, and the core message is the same.

I'm understating depreciation on the new, and overstating on the old. Change the no's and...the Lexus is still cheaper.

Even at 20mpg, the Lexus is still cheaper.

I know it's a be-atch to write the €1566 cheque for tax once a year, and the fuel fill ups might seem closer together, but just set up a standing order to a savings account - I actually named mine 'Motor Account' - and put €130 per month into it. In 12 months, your tax will be there, and you'll be laughing. Put €180 a month into it and you'll have your insurance there too. Can't see how it could be easier, or cheaper, really

Oh, and if the country goes completely tits-up, you'll own the Lexus.....and not handing the Shiney New back to the finance co.........

unkel

^^^

Motor tax is money for nothing for the Revenue Commissioners, but please do make realistic calculations. Your Lexus is unlikely to cost you more than basic servicing for the foreseeable. It will suffer tiny real depreciation (as you won't be able to sell it for 5k now and you still won't be able to sell it for 2k in 3 years time)

Fuel cost differences between the biggest gas guzzlers and the most efficient tiny diesels is the most wrong motoring perception in the country (after the motortax )

Do your sums for sure, but I can already guess the outcome. Your Lexus isn't really that expensive to own. And isn't it so much nicer in a luxobarge compared with a hairshirt sh1tbox?

Mr Benevolent

Brilliant. That breakdown is probably the best argument for luxobarge bangernomics I have ever heard or seen.

Chippy01

For this exercise, I'm going to value your Lexus at 3500, and worth 500 for parts at the end of 3 years. (heresy, I know....but bear with me......)

Here's what I'm guessing you'll find, based on you buying a €15k car, over 3 years (as per your previous posts, iirc...) I'm going to go on 12k kms a year, btw.

I'll go on the premise that servicing and insurance are like-for-like, with a bit of shopping and prudence.

Shiney New-ish ...vs...Lovely Lexus Luxobarge
Finance 5088.00..vs...0.00
Fuel 849.00 (45mpg@1.17 per litre)...vs...1660.00 (25mpg @ 1.27/litre)
Tax 445.00 (1.6 Diesel) ...vs...1566.00
Depreciation 2000.00...vs...1000.00
Total, p.a. 8316.00...vs...4226.00
Total. p.m. 698.00...vs...352.16

So, neither car tax, nor fuel, is the problem.



I see where you're coming from alright, and those figures do make sense.
Now, seeing as you have your calculator handy, what if that replacement car was bought and paid for?......ie, I get a decent price for my Lex, and I have a few bob put aside to buy outright - no finance!
I know, pie in the sky, but seeing as we are doing some maths I thought we might put that scenario forward too.
Oh btw, tax on my Lex is €1293 not €1566, and my mpg is 30-ish:). The worst I ever got was 19:eek:, and that was Dublin city driving.
Have I just shot myself in the foot 'updating' your Lexus figures??...lol:D

Mr Benevolent

Chippy01 wrote: »

For this exercise, I'm going to value your Lexus at 3500, and worth 500 for parts at the end of 3 years. (heresy, I know....but bear with me......)

Here's what I'm guessing you'll find, based on you buying a €15k car, over 3 years (as per your previous posts, iirc...) I'm going to go on 12k kms a year, btw.

I'll go on the premise that servicing and insurance are like-for-like, with a bit of shopping and prudence.

Shiney New-ish ...vs...Lovely Lexus Luxobarge
Finance 5088.00..vs...0.00
Fuel 849.00 (45mpg@1.17 per litre)...vs...1660.00 (25mpg @ 1.27/litre)
Tax 445.00 (1.6 Diesel) ...vs...1566.00
Depreciation 2000.00...vs...1000.00
Total, p.a. 8316.00...vs...4226.00
Total. p.m. 698.00...vs...352.16

So, neither car tax, nor fuel, is the problem.



I see where you're coming from alright, and those figures do make sense.
Now, seeing as you have your calculator handy, what if that replacement car was bought and paid for?......ie, I get a decent price for my Lex, and I have a few bob put aside to buy outright - no finance!
I know, pie in the sky, but seeing as we are doing some maths I thought we might put that scenario forward too.
Oh btw, tax on my Lex is €1293 not €1566, and my mpg is 30-ish:). The worst I ever got was 19:eek:, and that was Dublin city driving.
Have I just shot myself in the foot 'updating' your Lexus figures??...lol:D

Also, the depreciation on the new car seems a bit low. Again, this all goes in favour of the Lexus. No brainer decision really, since the GS300 is so reliable.

mickdw

As much as id like to agree with the figures in favour of the lexus, they are deeply flawed.

You cannot count the total finance repayment & then add the depreciation as well.
If you take the finance as being 5k per year. He will own the car after the 3 years. The car will also be worth something after the 3 years.(say 40% of cost) So if its worth 6k after 3 years, the true cost of the car itself is 3k per year plus any interest on the finance.
Now I know it will be costing more than that for the 3 years if you take finance for the whole amount but even if you use the 5k per year as your cost, you cannot add the depreciation on top of that as the finance is basically depreciating the car to zero over 3 years
The lexus will be cheaper to run over these 3 years but why not get into the more efficient car sooner? Saying all that, I would keep the lexus.

BlackWizard

There was a car owner ship cost calculator in some thread last year. I saved it on my harddrive. It's pretty handy for these sort of things and I like playing with it.. dreaming of that 4.4 v8 I guess

edit: original thread http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055546516


http://boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=104930&stc=1&d=1265889279

BronsonTB

Handy but came out at over 700pm running costs...ouch...:(

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

As much as id like to agree with the figures in favour of the lexus, they are deeply flawed.

steady on, 'deeply' ?....ok, see below......

Try this:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 2200 6600 1000 3000
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 9032 26169 4123 12369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 17769 12369
TCO, per annum 5923 4123
TCO, per month 494 344


Take out Depreciation completely:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6832 19569 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 11169 9369
TCO, per annum 3723 3123
TCO, per month 310 260


Or, flog the lexus for 2.5k, and put that towards your new car:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
less trade in -2500
Loan @ 6.5% 4893 14679 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6637 18984 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 10584 9369
TCO, per annum 3528 3123
TCO, per month 294 260

mickdw wrote: »

The lexus will be cheaper to run over these 3 years but why not get into the more efficient car sooner? Saying all that, I would keep the lexus.

Hold on: the Lexus IS the most efficient, no matter how you crunch the above (as far as I can see (afaics ??:p ) ) So, why change at all ??

In 3 yrs time, when you can buy a cheap clean econobox for 5k, then the numbers won't stack up, I agree..........but hey, we'll worry about that, then....:D

Chippy01

galwaytt wrote: »

steady on, 'deeply' ?....ok, see below......

Try this:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 2200 6600 1000 3000
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 9032 26169 4123 12369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 17769 12369
TCO, per annum 5923 4123
TCO, per month 494 344


Take out Depreciation completely:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6832 19569 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 11169 9369
TCO, per annum 3723 3123
TCO, per month 310 260


Or, flog the lexus for 2.5k, and put that towards your new car:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
less trade in -2500
Loan @ 6.5% 4893 14679 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6637 18984 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 10584 9369
TCO, per annum 3528 3123
TCO, per month 294 260


Hold on: the Lexus IS the most efficient, no matter how you crunch the above (as far as I can see (afaics ??:p ) ) So, why change at all ??

In 3 yrs time, when you can buy a cheap clean econobox for 5k, then the numbers won't stack up, I agree..........but hey, we'll worry about that, then....:D

OK galwaytt, I see you do your thinking inside the box...
Seriously, I appreciate you taking the time to do this, if nothing else it shows a different avenue.
But you still haven't looked at the possibility of buying the replacement vehicle outright (no finance).
As I see it above, if there was no finance, the figures would be dramatically reversed.

I did a quick calculation, and going by current running costs/prices, etc, the cost of running my GS covers the buying and running of a smaller used unit over a five year period. (sorry I can't do a neat boxy thing like you do)
At the end of that five years, I would have a younger car and hopefully less miles showing.
I wonder if your figures tell the same story?

mickdw

galwaytt wrote: »

steady on, 'deeply' ?....ok, see below......

Try this:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 2200 6600 1000 3000
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 9032 26169 4123 12369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 17769 12369
TCO, per annum 5923 4123
TCO, per month 494 344

Take out Depreciation completely:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
Loan @ 6.5% 5088 15264 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6832 19569 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 11169 9369
TCO, per annum 3723 3123
TCO, per month 310 260

Or, flog the lexus for 2.5k, and put that towards your new car:

Econobox Lexus GS300
45mpg Diesel 30 mpg Petrol
p.a. Total p.a. Total
Buy Price 15000 0
less trade in -2500
Loan @ 6.5% 4893 14679 0
Depreciation 0 0
Tax p.a. 445 1335 1291 3873
Ins p.a. 450 1350 450 1350
Fuel 12k kms pa 849 1620 1382 4146
Total 6637 18984 3123 9369
less residual 8400 0
TCO, 3yrs 10584 9369
TCO, per annum 3528 3123
TCO, per month 294 260

Hold on: the Lexus IS the most efficient, no matter how you crunch the above (as far as I can see (afaics ??:p ) ) So, why change at all ??

In 3 yrs time, when you can buy a cheap clean econobox for 5k, then the numbers won't stack up, I agree..........but hey, we'll worry about that, then....:D

Well your revised figures have gone from showing that the lexus was half as expensive to run as the 15k car to now showing that it is marginally cheaper. Thats deeply flawed surely:D.
Really to save money, the op should be looking at changing to a similar priced car with maybe 2.0 diesel engine. The saving then are clear to see - Reduced tax bill 600 approx & reduced fuel bill. IMO, these savings arent worth changing the lexus for though IMO as the new car wouldnt be anything as nice as the lexus