Are there jobs in Web Design ?

mollye

Thinking of doing a fulltime 17 week FAS course in Web Design with Adobe Dreamweaver . Have Architectural background with knowledge of Photoshop and some Design packages. Was made redundant so would hope that whatever course I do would lead to chance of work.

To those of you working in that field...is the market flooded with web designers already or is it worth pursuing this course ? Any advice appreciated.

Course details are :

Adobe Certified Associate in Web Communication Using Adobe Dreamweaver CS4 - 17 weeks fulltime.Modules
INDUCTION
CAREER PLANNING AND JOB SEEKING SKILLS
FIREWORKS
XHTML/CSS
DREAMWEAVER
Course Description
The aim of this training programme is to provide learners with skills, knowledge and competencies in web authoring using XHTML & web authoring software and internet technologies. Learners will gain skills in web site design and development, XHTML /CSS, Dreamweaver CS4 and Fireworks CS4 that will enable them to obtain employment in web site design and related activities.Target Trainee ProfileAge RequirementsApplicants must have reached the current statutory school leaving age.Educational QualificationsLeaving Certificate, or equivalent Advanced IT SkillsAptitudeMust be creative, efficient and knowledgeable with Graphic Design principles. Capable of working on own initiative and as part of a team. Problem solving abilities and a flair for troubleshooting. Attention to detail.Personal SkillsEssential to have high degree of interpersonal and communication skills. An analytical approach to problem solving and decision making is essential. Good diagnostic skills. Self motivated, ability to work on ones own and complete tasks to a deadline.Previous ExperienceExperience in Graphic Design or Fine Art Experience in working in PhotoShop or similar Graphic editing program Relevant experience in Public Relations, Advertising or ICT is desireableSpecial RequirementsPossess keyboard skills (essential) Portfolio of design work to show competence in a design field (essential) Knowledge of, or a skill in, electronic or manual page layout.Trainee Selection Criteria NameMinimum Standard RequiredAptitude TestN/ATrainability TestComputer Literacy TestPassOther Select CriteriaIshihara Colour Vision TestPass

derickmc

To be honest I would say that you would be very unlikely to get work based on that course alone. I dont see any mention of server side scripting of databases on the course outline.

The course might get you started but that is about it. It will probably train you to put up a static site that will look good but even from a freelancing point of view that won't sell. If you do a website for a sports club they are going to want a page that allows them upload news to a database or addnew results and fixtures - they don't want to be calling / paying their web developer every week to edit the html and do this for them.

In summary that course might get you started, check if there is a further course covering PHP (server side scripting language for interacting with a database) and MySQL (database).

Work wise there isn't a huge amount out there at the moment and you are competing in a fairly competitive market.

It might be worth signing up to a site like lynda(dot)com first. You could do a similar course online for a fraction of the cost to help determine if you have a flair for it then before investing ..

cmyk

derickmc wrote: »

It might be worth signing up to a site like lynda(dot)com first. You could do a similar course online for a fraction of the cost to help determine if you have a flair for it then before investing ..

I'd echo this, as a print designer branching out myself, there are very few courses around that will teach xhtml/css to standards. My advice is to echo the above with lynda.com. A few that I found useful are www.htmldog.com , www.w3.org and netuts.com. There's really nothing in those you can't get your head around teaching yourself.

I'd use those as a good base, you need a solid understanding of those two before even using dreamweaver. You can then move onto php/js etc.

TitoPuente

derickmc wrote: »

Work wise there isn't a huge amount out there at the moment

There are loads of Web and digital media jobs out there at the moment. The market hasn't been this busy in over 10 years since the 'dot com bubble' burst. Although it's in much ruder health and far better structured right now. However, doing a short Web course isn't going to get you a job anywhere. It takes years and a lot of very hard work to get to a professional standard and the competition is increasingly fierce.

mattfinucane

From my experience, here is what I think you need to do because at the moment web design and development is a very competitive business and you will find it tough to get a job.

The course you have outlined there will give you a 'start' in web design and development but not make you fully qualified. Many people have different ideas of what a 'qualified' web designer/developer is. Web design is a funny old business. It's not like studying to be a dentist or a doctor. It's very much unregulated.

Web design and development is very challenging for those who want to deliver quality work and get it 'right'. Anyone can put together a website using a template and a copy of dreamweaver but you don't want to be anyone.

Those who can hand-code a website from scratch to be standards compliant, accessible, usable and pretty are the cream of the crop of front end development and these people have put in several years of practice and dedication. You will need to do the same.

If you enjoy your work it will lend a hand to you doing this. You have to be passionate about learning and delivering the best possible experience to your users.

I recommend plenty of reading and practice - starting with the following:

-- http://www.sitepoint.com
-- http://www.alistapart.com
-- http://www.smashingmagazine.com/
-- http://www.boxesandarrows.com/

Read the material, understand it, love it and practice it. Best of luck with it!

derickmc

TitoPuente wrote: »

There are loads of Web and digital media jobs out there at the moment.

You are probably speaking from a Dublin point of view there TitoPuente. I am down in Cork and there aren't many web/digital media jobs out there at all.

On a more positive note for someone starting out like yourself mollye, I have noticed that the typical web dev / design skillset (css, php, javascript, html etc) is being used on a broader spectrum recently. i have contracted for a manufacturing company who used those tools to develop inhouse reporting tools and a company providing SaaS solutions (more online applications than websites which would be more design orientated). The web dev skills of the people I have met in these companies have been very basic.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is if you have a flare for web dev you might be able to get in to it in some form or another. I you have a flare for it here is how I would approach it -

1. Do some online training
2. Do some formal training to get a qualification
3. Get some sites under your belt - it is the best way to learn and you'll need some sort of a portfolio on your CV.
4. Start applying for work!

cormee

Do the course and then find a few people to do sites for for a reduced price or even free. I got my first web job by converting two hotel brochures into websites and telling my future employer they were real commissions.

I wouldn't worry about scripting too much at this stage, you're looking for a job as a designer not a developer.

The most important things to an employer is your portfolio and your experience. Qualifications in web design don't count for very much as there is no nationally recognised/awarded accreditation in web design (that I know of).

And yes there are jobs, but only if you can design *and* build a site - neither of them by themselves will get you work.

bobbytables

mattfinucane wrote: »

Web design is a funny old business. It's not like studying to be a dentist or a doctor. It's very much unregulated.

Web design and development is very challenging for those who want to deliver quality work and get it 'right'. Anyone can put together a website using a template and a copy of dreamweaver but you don't want to be anyone.

Those who can hand-code a website from scratch to be standards compliant, accessible, usable and pretty are the cream of the crop of front end development and these people have put in several years of practice and dedication. You will need to do the same.

I agree 100% with the above and couldn't have said it better myself.

A wee story: The web, an application of the Internet, has become an extremely popular medium that is accessible to everyone, even those at the most basic of user levels. For example my Grandfather was a man in his 80s, had his own PC and used the web on a daily basis. Now he wasn't ultra efficient, he did type the odd URL directly in to Google Search, but the application forgave him and he wasn't penalized for any ignorance. Out of all the things he could have done on his computer, using a web browser to flick through web pages was his thing, and what he kept going back to. There were no other end user applications available on his PC that could have given him such a return based on such a gentle learning curve to get up and running.

So given the wide range of user levels that can enjoy the web, it is understandable that there is often a lack of appreciation for the level of skill that is required to pull everything together properly. I grew up with computers (many types), my background is in IT (Bachelors, Masters, and a Doctorate (pending)), I have been working with Web Technologies since 1994 (and since 2000 professionally). Given all that, I am still often overwhelmed by the sheer speed and volume of information, knowledge and skill that passes through this industry. Now you can't be an expert at everything, but you can cover a few bases and team up with others.

I advice you OP to find which corner appeals to you, and where in the spectrum this sits. "Creating web sites/applications" is a very high level view and is not the product of a single skill, but many, which individually can take years to master. The sort of web sites people threw together 10 years ago are a lot different to what is required today. By "required" I am simply referring to the fact that the world in general places a greater demand on the web as a platform than they did say 10 or so years ago, and as such, the level of skill required to deliver satisfactory results is still incomprehensible to many, never mind how quickly it all evolves.

So what you could do is apply for that course, read books, then do another course, practice, practice, practice, read some more, and along the way I think your opinion of the industry will be subject to constant change.

This profession is a real journey...

TitoPuente

cormee wrote: »

And yes there are jobs, but only if you can design *and* build a site - neither of them by themselves will get you work.

That is not the advice you want to be giving anyone. Designers should design. Developers should develop. End of story. They're two completely different disciplines. Yes there's a little crossover - it helps if designers have some front end development skills and know what's possible in terms of technical implementation. It's good for developers to know their way around Photoshop and to ensure they don't butcher designer's creative. However, by and large, they're two very different jobs.

I'm well aware that a lot of companies advertise both disciplines in the same job spec. "Exceptional Web designer required with strong ASP.NET skills" and that kind of braindead idiocy. These companies don't have a clue what they're doing. Steer well clear of them.

Obviously there are exceptions - there are some seriously talented people who are outstanding designers and developers (Josh Davis for example) but they're very, very rare.

Pixelcraft

+1 , specialisation is where the money's at

cormee

TitoPuente wrote: »

That is not the advice you want to be giving anyone. Designers should design. Developers should develop. End of story. They're two completely different disciplines. Yes there's a little crossover - it helps if designers have some front end development skills and know what's possible in terms of technical implementation. It's good for developers to know their way around Photoshop and to ensure they don't butcher designer's creative. However, by and large, they're two very different jobs.

I'm well aware that a lot of companies advertise both disciplines in the same job spec. "Exceptional Web designer required with strong ASP.NET skills" and that kind of braindead idiocy. These companies don't have a clue what they're doing. Steer well clear of them.

Obviously there are exceptions - there are some seriously talented people who are outstanding designers and developers (Josh Davis for example) but they're very, very rare.

???

I'm just wondering how you managed to read the last line of my posting without reading the middle bit:

"I wouldn't worry about scripting too much at this stage, you're looking for a job as a designer not a developer. "

When I was referring to building a site I meant clean code, proper page structure, good UI and accessible - not programming/scripting (I didn't elaborate on 'building' because I had assumed it would be obvious from the above line I didn't mean developing/scripting).

TitoPuente

cormee wrote: »

???

I'm just wondering how you managed to read the last line of my posting without reading the middle bit:

"I wouldn't worry about scripting too much at this stage, you're looking for a job as a designer not a developer. "

When I was referring to building a site I meant clean code, proper page structure, good UI and accessible - not programming/scripting (I didn't elaborate on 'building' because I had assumed it would be obvious from the above line I didn't mean developing/scripting).

You're right, apologies. Although it's probably a point worth making anyway even if it is out of context/unrelated to your post

themurph

I have a successful magazine publishing publishing busines with my own premises in Park West. I am looking to partner with a web developer who has good front and back end design abilities

No salary on offer but an opportunity to tap into my 2,000 client base

TitoPuente

themurph wrote: »

I have a successful magazine publishing publishing busines with my own premises in Park West. I am looking to partner with a web developer who has good front and back end design abilities

No salary on offer but an opportunity to tap into my 2,000 client base

No thanks. Rather than allow the skills that have taken me nearly 15 years to hone be completely devalued, I'll continue to take paid work.

cormee

TitoPuente wrote: »

You're right, apologies. Although it's probably a point worth making anyway even if it is out of context/unrelated to your post

Absolutely.

cormee

themurph wrote: »

I have a successful magazine publishing publishing busines with my own premises in Park West. I am looking to partner with a web developer who has good front and back end design abilities

No salary on offer but an opportunity to tap into my 2,000 client base

Wow! What's the catch?!

mattfinucane

themurph wrote: »

I have a successful magazine publishing publishing busines with my own premises in Park West. I am looking to partner with a web developer who has good front and back end design abilities

No salary on offer but an opportunity to tap into my 2,000 client base

Sounds like an excellent opportunity for someone! Man I wish I was that lucky guy who could work with you. So many opportunities out there. I just have to keep my eyes open.

Placebo

TitoPuente wrote: »

That is not the advice you want to be giving anyone. Designers should design. Developers should develop. End of story. They're two completely different disciplines. Yes there's a little crossover - it helps if designers have some front end development skills and know what's possible in terms of technical implementation. It's good for developers to know their way around Photoshop and to ensure they don't butcher designer's creative. However, by and large, they're two very different jobs.

I'm well aware that a lot of companies advertise both disciplines in the same job spec. "Exceptional Web designer required with strong ASP.NET skills" and that kind of braindead idiocy. These companies don't have a clue what they're doing. Steer well clear of them.

Obviously there are exceptions - there are some seriously talented people who are outstanding designers and developers (Josh Davis for example) but they're very, very rare.

hmmmm i do both.
I actually enjoy doing both, sometimes it works out faster.

TitoPuente

Placebo wrote: »

hmmmm i do both.
I actually enjoy doing both, sometimes it works out faster.

Yes but enjoying doing both and doing both to a professional standard are two very different things. I'm not saying you don't... but I'm still to meet anyone in Ireland that can.

mollye

Thanks for all your advice people. It has been invaluable. I have been on a few of those websites you recommended and I feel I'm getting a really good insight into web design. Cheers