Harbour Air

Tea 1000

Any word on these guys? They were supposed to be starting this month.
http://www.harbourair.ie/

airvan

I read the environmental impact statement. Their main base will be at Mountshannon on Lough Derg and they also state they're waiting for an AOC from the IAA. So if anyone has seen anything happening at Mountshannon let us know.

I hope it works out.

John_Mc

Weather would probably have a lot bigger affect on this type of operation than normal airlines wouldn't it? I would imagine rough seas would prevent it from operating?

airvan

Really I know from experience there is a lot of flyable weather in Ireland over the year, particularly for low level VFR, despite our reputation. Also most of the landing areas will be in sheltered harbours away from the open sea. The proposed Galway landing area is just off the harbour. Foynes would be same and of course lakes are not open sea. So it's doable.

Tea 1000

I mailed that guy Stewart about 2 months ago enquiring if they're still going ahead but got no reply. I hope it does go ahead, I'll be booking a ticket the minute they're in service! Taking off from Foynes in a Seaplane would be an excellent experience!

pclancy

Excellent idea and great for local tourism and business etc. The environmental impact statement is interesting reading.

I do find the noise pollution part very vague though.

Noise Pollution
Seaplanes have a relatively low impact on noise pollution. The majority of noise is
generated during take off when high engine power is required to make the seaplane
airborne.

Table 1 outlines typical noise levels for various operations at typical distances from the
sound source.

Source of Noise dBA Note

Jet ski 110 e.g. watersports on lake
Chainsaw 100-104 e.g. tree felling
Lawn mower 88-94 e.g. golf course
Tractor 95 e.g. general operations
Speedboat 65-95 e.g. watersports on lake
Seaplane 75 Take off only @300m from plane for 20 sec
Inside Car @ 30mph 68-73
Normal Conversation 55-65

Table 1 above highlights that the taking off of seaplanes does not have a significant
affect on noise pollution when compared to typical existing noise sources at the lake. It
must be noted that the value for the seaplane in Table 1 is representative of the plane
taking off. During take off the power required to make the plane airborne is higher than
cruising, taxiing or landing powers, therefore the noises generated are higher. This
sound is generated for a short period of time only (approximately 20 seconds).
As seaplane movements are limited to daylight hours, noise pollution at night will be non
existent.

I would argue that Seaplanes DO cause a lot of noise to the local area on takeoff AND on landing and certainly the Cessna 208 i've watched takeoff several times from Lake Taupo in NZ was way louder then any jetski on the lake at the same time...I find it hard for them to generalise all floatplanes into one noise level as well. Surely different engine types are going to propduce different volumes of noise depending on weather conditions etc. Saying "Seaplane 70db for 20 seconds" just seems very vague, I wonder did they actually test the same model of aircraft they're going to use? I would say based on my own experience of watching floatplane operations that the noise level doesnt die off after 20 seconds either, its more like 2-5 minutes before its actually climbed out of earshot for any single-engine type i've ever seen.

I'm not in any way saying their statements are wrong or the service will cause masses of noise pollution, I just think they're being very vague. A couple of flights a day within working hours arent going to annoy anyone too much but 75db seems very conservative.

Tea 1000

Maybe they were estimating based on the distance from shore they will be taking off from. Foynes "runway" for want of a better word(!) and Galway bay would both be a nice distance away from shore.

airvan

Noise varies quite a lot depending on engine/propellor combination. A two blader running at 2700 RPM can vibrate your brain. But a three blader on the same engine would be considerably lower. A twin turbine as found on a Twotter would be different again. But as tea says they should be far enough offshore to avoid to much annoyance. Here's the plan for the proposed pier and take off area in Galway bay. That's far enough out unless you're on Hare Island or Mutton Island. It's interesting to see.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/Planning/Publications/PreDraftDevelopmentPlanSubmissions/TheFile,5788,en.pdf

pclancy

Interesting. I've only been standing on the shoreline or in a nearby building when i've heard the Cessnas takeoff. If its away from people yep it would be a lot less.

b757

Has anyone heard anything relating to this lately? Is it still planned to go ahead?

http://www.harbourflights.com/

asdfg!

Frankly it's never going to happen. Overtaken by events. Harbour Air was always a fantasy driven by non aviation dreamers. The person who they asked to help told them upfront it would never work.

He was right. Nobody is going to fund that fantasy.

That isn't to say a seaplane operation can't work. But the wrong people were trying to get it going.

Meanwhile the AOC they wanted is still on the cards. Oddly enough they were right on one level.

But Harbour Air is dead in the water, sunk to the gunwales. submerged in bureaucracy, waterlogged and all the other clichés.

A319er

Well we did get an airshow in mountshannon last year but no sign of the float plane
Of late pity but it was a mad idea from the start but who knows.

If only the data were involved?
Good money spent on pontoons and infrastructure in the harbour

Tabnabs

A319er wrote: »

If only the data were involved?
Good money spent on pontoons and infrastructure in the harbour

Which harbour, out of interest?

I did see a single engine float plane over Dublin Bay last week during the QM2 cruise ship visit. Is their aircraft stored in the Dublin area?

A319er

Mountshannon harbour sorry should have been more specific


All quiet at HQ today

phonypony

Tabnabs wrote: »

Which harbour, out of interest?

I did see a single engine float plane over Dublin Bay last week during the QM2 cruise ship visit. Is their aircraft stored in the Dublin area?

That was NFC's Cessna 172 EI-CFP based at Weston

asdfg!

phonypony wrote: »

That was NFC's Cessna 172 EI-CFP based at Weston

Yes they were using that to prove the concept at Mountshannon. Also the NFC is the only place in the Republic where you can get a floatplane rating that I'm aware of.

But the 172 wouldn't be practical for what Harbour Air needed. It would have to be at least a six seater or better. I very much doubt if the money is available for that. Which is probably why the whole idea is dead in the water.......