Free golf from other courses ?

ryaner7777

Sorry if the title is a little misleading;)

But can posters see any other courses running promotions like this after seeing the responce that druids has got ?

anyone think their local might be in a position to offer something similar?

And if you were a member would you be really annoyed if they did ? even if it could bring in some much needed revenue in the long run?

ThunderCat

I remember last year Glasson near Athlone did the exact same thing as Druids Glen are doing currently. A lot of people from boards went along. I went there with a mate and we both had a great day out, weather was good and the course was good also, and all for free!
The benefit of it I suppose is that a free round entices you to travel and play a course you might not normally consider as it is a good bit away from where you live. Of course as you are miles from home, as was the case for me, you stay and have a drink and something to eat on site and of course word of mouth when you get back always helps the courses reputation.
I played Glasson since then as a green fee visitor as I was going to a wedding nearby so I suppose the free round got me back there as I knew what the place was like. Good course, enjoyed it, and sure we all love something for free! Hopefully more places will follow suit.

Maverick.ie

It,s a very good marketing ploy. recommended by Andrew Wood a marketing expert.

Druids will not be at it's best at the moment ( but still in good shape) revenues will be down in the bar and restaurant etc, so what do you do, give away free golf this will generate some revenue at least, specially when the course would have been quite anyway and the added bonus for Druids as it was for Glasson, possibly upwards of 6,000 email addresses to contact with further offers and text messages etc.

You can probably expect to see a number of other clubs doing the same thing so keep yer eyes open.

Par71

Maverick.ie wrote: »

You can probably expect to see a number of other clubs doing the same thing so keep yer eyes open.

I wouldnt bet on it myself. This has to be the strangest idea I have come accross, I myself have done a free golf DAY for people who were willing to leave email addresses or contact numbers. We got a few new members sign up on the day and a lot of return business.

The problem I see with this offer is Druids are not going to be offering these 20,000 odd people who left email addresses deals that are affordable to come back. Dont get me wrong Im all up for new marketing ideas but this is just insane. They will have to employ more staff to cope over the next month, as people have rightly pointed out the course is going to suffer hugely with the amount of traffic. No tee times left for anybody who actually wanted to pay a green fee in this period. How many of these people who got free green fees will ever go back to Druids??? Not a lot.

Any food revenue that is taken in will go to the Catering company and not to Druids. All I can see is they may make a few bob in the bar selling rock shandys.

Dont expect to see any other golf courses going down this road any time soon, if anything Druids have bitten off more than they can chew.

Just my opinion BTW no jumping down necks lads.

ShriekingSheet

Par71 wrote: »

I wouldnt bet on it myself. This has to be the strangest idea I have come accross, I myself have done a free golf DAY for people who were willing to leave email addresses or contact numbers. We got a few new members sign up on the day and a lot of return business.

The problem I see with this offer is Druids are not going to be offering these 20,000 odd people who left email addresses deals that are affordable to come back. Dont get me wrong Im all up for new marketing ideas but this is just insane. They will have to employ more staff to cope over the next month, as people have rightly pointed out the course is going to suffer hugely with the amount of traffic. No tee times left for anybody who actually wanted to pay a green fee in this period. How many of these people who got free green fees will ever go back to Druids??? Not a lot.

Any food revenue that is taken in will go to the Catering company and not to Druids. All I can see is they may make a few bob in the bar selling rock shandys.

Dont expect to see any other golf courses going down this road any time soon, if anything Druids have bitten off more than they can chew.

Just my opinion BTW no jumping down necks lads.

Disagree Par 71 - I think the business case stacks up nicely for them.
(copied from my blog...)

Beginning with the sign-up form, there's a considerable amout of info required from the applicant. Name, address, email, phone number, membership status, membership interest, how often you play, among other queries, are all there. This of course serves a highly useful purpose for DG's own marketing plans, but in the small print you'll notice that there's no other option but to agree to receive communication from "our partners" as well. This in effect means that DG have built up a database of specific and lucrative information on the golfing public overnight, and are permitted to pass this on to third parties in exchange for $$$.

Furthermore, given that the club is situated amid a relatively low population density, and given that many enthusiasts will want to take in the whole DG experience, rather than just play the course, it's fair to assume that a considerable percentage of those availing of the freebie will eat breakfast, lunch, or dinner in the fine Woodstock House, as well as maybe dropping a few quid on the logo'd merchandise in the pro shop. Given the quality and history of this course, it's also a fair assumption that many will travel from further a field to avail of the deal, and stay at the plush on-site hotel.

In short, the surge in revenue derrived from the above, coupled with the excellent publicity received will more than justify the move in an otherwise quiet golfing month. Sure, it's not out of the goodness of their heart, but I must say, the marketers have skillfully taken full advantage of the rare resource at their disposal. DG is an experience, not just a course. Fair play to them.

And on your point regarding food revenues going to catering companies, I'm not so sure DG's isn't in-house? And if it is outsourced, you can bet there's a simple investment from the caterer to the club to drive the promo.

The brilliance of it is the fact that DG is one of the very, very few places than can boast an experience rather than just a great course. People want to go and soak it all up, make the most of it by having a bite to eat, or a drink, or even staying over. This can't be copied by any run of the mill course.

BoardsRanger

Par71 wrote: »

I wouldnt bet on it myself. This has to be the strangest idea I have come accross, I myself have done a free golf DAY for people who were willing to leave email addresses or contact numbers. We got a few new members sign up on the day and a lot of return business.

The problem I see with this offer is Druids are not going to be offering these 20,000 odd people who left email addresses deals that are affordable to come back. Dont get me wrong Im all up for new marketing ideas but this is just insane. They will have to employ more staff to cope over the next month, as people have rightly pointed out the course is going to suffer hugely with the amount of traffic. No tee times left for anybody who actually wanted to pay a green fee in this period. How many of these people who got free green fees will ever go back to Druids??? Not a lot.

Any food revenue that is taken in will go to the Catering company and not to Druids. All I can see is they may make a few bob in the bar selling rock shandys.

Dont expect to see any other golf courses going down this road any time soon, if anything Druids have bitten off more than they can chew.

Just my opinion BTW no jumping down necks lads.

Agree 100%. If only you knew how right you are. Lets just say- this will never happen at druids again. Also- like i said in the other thread - takings at the pro shop yesterday were a meisley €102 from a full timesheet!!

stevire

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Agree 100%. If only you knew how right you are. Lets just say- this will never happen at druids again. Also- like i said in the other thread - takings at the pro shop yesterday were a meisley €102 from a full timesheet!!

I reckon the weekends takings will be a good indicator to how successful this marketing drive was or wasn't! With various rugby and soccer matches people will hang around and watch the game, bite to eat etc.

In fairness, that's probably €102 euro more than they've been getting on a Thursday over the last month!

Par71

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Disagree Par 71 - I think the business case stacks up nicely for them.
(copied from my blog...)



And on your point regarding food revenues going to catering companies, I'm not so sure DG's isn't in-house?Yes it is! And if it is outsourced, you can bet there's a simple investment from the caterer to the club to drive the promo. I would very much doubt it.

The brilliance of it is the fact that DG is one of the very, very few places than can boast an experience rather than just a great course. People want to go and soak it all up, make the most of it by having a bite to eat, or a drink, or even staying over. This can't be copied by any run of the mill course.

They might get some business but not enough to warrent giving 3000 free green fees away.

I am very much aware of the webiste questionnaire and the website as a marketing tool and a very good one it is too. It was a system I looked at myself. I could still go with it.

I know for a fact the catering is outsourced, the pro shop clothing is still too expensive for people to token buy. You just keep an eye on these posts to see what people are saying about the visit. All will enjoy it no doubt but Im affraid Druids Glen are not going to make anything out of this. If anything they have raised people expectations of what other golf courses should do. It simply wont happen ever again. Glasson did this before and guess what it was Marketing Commander (Andrew Wood) who was the brains behind it. And guess what Glasson are still finding it hard to get business in.

ShriekingSheet

Par71 wrote: »

They might get some business but not enough to warrent giving 3000 free green fees away.

I am very much aware of the webiste questionnaire and the website as a marketing tool and a very good one it is too. It was a system I looked at myself. I could still go with it.

I know for a fact the catering is outsourced, the pro shop clothing is still too expensive for people to token buy. You just keep an eye on these posts to see what people are saying about the visit. All will enjoy it no doubt but Im affraid Druids Glen are not going to make anything out of this. If anything they have raised people expectations of what other golf courses should do. It simply wont happen ever again. Glasson did this before and guess what it was Marketing Commander (Andrew Wood) who was the brains behind it. And guess what Glasson are still finding it hard to get business in.

You're too focused on how this relates to Glasson and your course, and how it wouldn't work there. And I agree - it wouldn't. But it's nothing got to do with the likes of Glasson or wherever. To reiterate my point, DG has something very, very few courses have to offer in it's brand, it's location & it's history.

From a simple branding perspective, look at how they've increasingly positioned it away from the exclusivity and pomp of other top-end courses, being one of the first to market with a much-since-copied 1.5k annual rate for the Heath course. Nice little offerings such as the monthly Silver Medals done in conjunction with the Indo, along with bigger undertakings such as the FebFreebie all point in one direction, and that is to put the course out there as an everyman course where you won't be stopped at the gate just because you drive a van or a taxi. You can see the reason in their strategy when you look at recent articles in the Times (posted here by Licksy) highlighting the struggle the K Club have as their super-upmarket positioning, while suitable in the boom-time, now has them seen as an OTT luxury. Their once healthy corporate business customers either a) now can't afford the venue, or more commonly b) can't be seen to blow cash on such a lavish set-up for an outing.

Secondly, where's the Variable Cost in the offer? Feck all. It costs nothing to let people in the gate and play the golf course. If anything, it's a great way of getting more out of Fixed Costs they'd be paying out anyway, such as staff. It's not like they brought in a load of people to answer phones - you couldn't get through! If a few extra bodies were needed for bar/catering that's very much a good thing

You can't just ignore my points about the revenues generated through the data collected, the hotel, the bar (note that this is conveniently during the 6 nations, not to mention the usual Premier League stuff). This again is another reason why only a course like this can make such a deal really work, as people will travel all sorts of distances to play it for free, and as such, are more likely to need food and accomm.

You're clearly eager to point out that you're right and Andrew Wood & DG are wrong, but I just don't think it's the case. You've (sort of) declared your own stake in all of this, which is how it detracts from otherwise good value green-fee offers from nearby courses, who can't (and shouldn't imo) replicate such a deal. So you're opinion is quite tainted by that. Regardless, you're entitled to criticise the offer. But the criticism suits your agenda, so to mask it as informed, objective opinion isn't exactly fair. Besides, for all the reasons above I think you're off the mark and they've made a shrewd move.

IITYWYBMAD

Par71 wrote: »

They might get some business but not enough to warrent giving 3000 free green fees away.

I am very much aware of the webiste questionnaire and the website as a marketing tool and a very good one it is too. It was a system I looked at myself. I could still go with it.

I know for a fact the catering is outsourced, the pro shop clothing is still too expensive for people to token buy. You just keep an eye on these posts to see what people are saying about the visit. All will enjoy it no doubt but Im affraid Druids Glen are not going to make anything out of this. If anything they have raised people expectations of what other golf courses should do. It simply wont happen ever again. Glasson did this before and guess what it was Marketing Commander (Andrew Wood) who was the brains behind it. And guess what Glasson are still finding it hard to get business in.

I agree. And I also think that people are way too web savvy to be giving anything like their real phone number or anything other than a gmail address for marketing purposes to websites. Even if the real email address or phone number is given, their use as a tool is quite limited.

I also don't see DG making a fortune from passers by in the pro shop either, as the place is far too expensive. What I do see them gaining from this, is quite a few return golfers.

ShriekingSheet

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

their use as a tool is quite limited. .

It states on the form the info can be shared with their "partners", which they can turn into cash - not just use the info for their own purposes. They have correct emails for everyone as this was used for the voucher.

IITYWYBMAD

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

It states on the form the info can be shared with their "partners", which they can turn into cash - not just use the info for their own purposes. They have correct emails for everyone as this was used for the voucher.

I know, hence my saying that people would use a gmail address. As an aside, you do not have to give the correct email address, as he voucher was presented after you had logged in all the details, so you could simple save it or print it off. But that's just detail, in general I find these type of information grabbing exercises useless and a bit tedious.

ShriekingSheet

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

I know, hence my saying that people would use a gmail address. As an aside, you do not have to give the correct email address, as he voucher was presented after you had logged in all the details, so you could simple save it or print it off. But that's just detail, in general I find these type of information grabbing exercises useless and a bit tedious.

Totally agree - tool of the devil! I'm just saying they can be monetised.

Par71

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

You're too focused on how this relates to Glasson and your course, and how it wouldn't work there. And I agree - it wouldn't. But it's nothing got to do with the likes of Glasson or wherever. To reiterate my point, DG has something very, very few courses have to offer in it's brand, it's location & it's history.

From a simple branding perspective, look at how they've increasingly positioned it away from the exclusivity and pomp of other top-end courses, being one of the first to market with a much-since-copied 1.5k annual rate for the Heath course. Nice little offerings such as the monthly Silver Medals done in conjunction with the Indo, along with bigger undertakings such as the FebFreebie all point in one direction, and that is to put the course out there as an everyman course where you won't be stopped at the gate just because you drive a van or a taxi. You can see the reason in their strategy when you look at recent articles in the Times (posted here by Licksy) highlighting the struggle the K Club have as their super-upmarket positioning, while suitable in the boom-time, now has them seen as an OTT luxury. Their once healthy corporate business customers either a) now can't afford the venue, or more commonly b) can't be seen to blow cash on such a lavish set-up for an outing.

Secondly, where's the Variable Cost in the offer? Feck all. It costs nothing to let people in the gate and play the golf course. If anything, it's a great way of getting more out of Fixed Costs they'd be paying out anyway, such as staff. It's not like they brought in a load of people to answer phones - you couldn't get through! If a few extra bodies were needed for bar/catering that's very much a good thing

You can't just ignore my points about the revenues generated through the data collected, the hotel, the bar (note that this is conveniently during the 6 nations, not to mention the usual Premier League stuff). This again is another reason why only a course like this can make such a deal really work, as people will travel all sorts of distances to play it for free, and as such, are more likely to need food and accomm.

You're clearly eager to point out that you're right and Andrew Wood & DG are wrong, but I just don't think it's the case. You've (sort of) declared your own stake in all of this, which is how it detracts from otherwise good value green-fee offers from nearby courses, who can't (and shouldn't imo) replicate such a deal. So you're opinion is quite tainted by that. Regardless, you're entitled to criticise the offer. But the criticism suits your agenda, so to mask it as informed, objective opinion isn't exactly fair. Besides, for all the reasons above I think you're off the mark and they've made a shrewd move.

Mr Sheet,

Im not too focused on my course or Glasson, I mearly made a point about Glasson doing it and not making from it. The points I made about my own club is that I know all about this website and of Andrew Woods. I know how good it is and how good he is. All I am saying is that they both got it wrong with this deal. IMO.

Its all very well giving away over 3000 free green fees but you have got to be sure you get somthing back from it, only time will tell but I will be the first to hold my hands up and say im wrong if they do. There is not a lot of people in this country who play this sport that dont know about Druids Glen so as far as getting the name out there as "everyman course" is weak. Its not an everyman course, I know a lot of poeple who wont pay €90 for a green fee in the winter never mind €150 in the summer, this is not going to change just beacuse they gave out free green fees. The Kclub have problems yes, but its not down to them being snobs about thier business, its all about price. I have never heard of people being stopped at any gate because they drive Taxi's or Vans. I would say 95% of people who got their free green fee will be down to play the course bring food with them (as so far they have) and arrange accomodation else where much cheaper. That is the Irish mentality in these bleek times.

As I say time will tell, but from 18+ years experience in this business I cant see it working.

f22

I can see the two sides of the argument here, and while both have merits I feel that Druids should have probably followed the Luttrellstown model, and sat somewhere in the middle.

Having a low(ish) green fee for a course the quality of Druids would also have people beating the door (or phone lines) down to play. Not only would they gain revenue but probably gain a continual stream of people returning to play.

Not too many will shell out e90 for Winter golf, or as also pointed out e150 for Summer golf any more. Having a marketing list as long as your arm is pretty useless if your core product isn't price concious in the longer term.

ShriekingSheet

Par71 wrote: »

Im not too focused on my course or Glasson, I mearly made a point about Glasson doing it and not making from it.

Can you not see how this is an irrelvent point? The two clubs are vastly different, and face entirely different challenges in the market. Look at how 1.5k annual membership was a roaring success in Druid's Heath, then was copied by half of the clubs in Leinster, who had a fraction of the response. Would you also argue that because this worked in DH it would work to the same extent in other clubs?
You're actually trying to argue that because this failed in an above average club in Athlone, you can extrapulate that and insist it will fail in one of the most famous venues in Ireland...

Par71 wrote: »

getting the name out there as "everyman course" is weak. Its not an everyman course

There you go - you said it yourself. You don't see it as an everyman course - in other words, it's not a viable venue for societies, outings or green fees. This premium perception, born in the boom years, is of a top-dollar course you wouldn't even bother putting a call into to get a deal for a fourball, or a stag weekend, or a charity day.

They want to change that. They want to talk deal, and they want people to view the place as approachable. You've mentioned price, and F22 also, but citing a high top-line price, and then offering much lower deals in reality is the oldest trick in the book - an easy way to make people feel like they're getting great value (and they probably are too).

It was the same in the European Club last month. €110 or whatever was the "usual price". Between the Wednesday Alliance thing, matchplays, open specials, fourball deals and just ringing them up and asking, I don't think I've ever paid more than €70, and in fact, more usually €50 for golf down there.

Of course I'm not saying people are going to play for free one week, and pay €90 next week. Every society and corporate outing organiser's ears pricked up when this deal spread like wildfire. Whether they played it or not as part of the freebie, DG will have gone from "don't even bother trying" to "I must give them a ring and see if they'll do a deal". How is that weak?

Par71

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Can you not see how this is an irrelvent point? The two clubs are vastly different, and face entirely different challenges in the market. Look at how 1.5k annual membership was a roaring success in Druid's Heath, then was copied by half of the clubs in Leinster, who had a fraction of the response. Would you also argue that because this worked in DH it would work to the same extent in other clubs?
You're actually trying to argue that because this failed in an above average club in Athlone, you can extrapulate that and insist it will fail in one of the most famous venues in Ireland...



There you go - you said it yourself. You don't see it as an everyman course - in other words, it's not a viable venue for societies, outings or green fees. This premium perception, born in the boom years, is of a top-dollar course you wouldn't even bother putting a call into to get a deal for a fourball, or a stag weekend, or a charity day.

They want to change that. They want to talk deal, and they want people to view the place as approachable. You've mentioned price, and F22 also, but citing a high top-line price, and then offering much lower deals in reality is the oldest trick in the book - an easy way to make people feel like they're getting great value (and they probably are too).

It was the same in the European Club last month. €110 or whatever was the "usual price". Between the Wednesday Alliance thing, matchplays, open specials, fourball deals and just ringing them up and asking, I don't think I've ever paid more than €70, and in fact, more usually €50 for golf down there.

Of course I'm not saying people are going to play for free one week, and pay €90 next week. Every society and corporate outing organiser's ears pricked up when this deal spread like wildfire. Whether they played it or not as part of the freebie, DG will have gone from "don't even bother trying" to "I must give them a ring and see if they'll do a deal". How is that weak?

Lets forget about the Glasson thing. Im not comparing the two at all. Sombody made the point in this post and I was relating to that point. Not comparing Druids or this course at any time.

The reason I make these points about Druids Glen is because I know where Andrew Woods stands on marketing. He does not believe on reducing green fee rates, its not in his agenda. So what else is there only value added, you can expect to see deals coming out from Druids Glen in the future with Freebies attached, i.e get a free gift when you book your tee time. The Irish market is not interested in this type of offer as the bottom line is price. If Mr Woods is true to his marketing philosophy Druids Glen will not be lowering prices to get the punters in.

I say its not an everyman course because of price, unless green fee rates are dropped and by quite a lot it will never be an everyman course. I have said it before and I will say it again, If im wrong and Druids lower thier green fees and get the punters in I will hold my hands up. Until then they are still the same over priced course that people will not get a deal on. And until then I stand by my points

Mr. Larson

Not exactly free but Bunclody are offering the following on their website:

SPECIAL OFFER FROM SUNDAY 21ST FEBRUARY TO FRIDAY 26TH FEBRUARY 4 BALL FOR €100. BOOK ON LINE OR CALL PRO SHOP AT 053 9374444.

Not bad value I guess...

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Not exactly free but Bunclody are offering the following on their website:

SPECIAL OFFER FROM SUNDAY 21ST FEBRUARY TO FRIDAY 26TH FEBRUARY 4 BALL FOR €100. BOOK ON LINE OR CALL PRO SHOP AT 053 9374444.

Not bad value I guess...

It's a good track