Faulty macbook advice please!!

nix1

hi everyone, really need advice please!!

I bought a macbook the end of last september and it started crashing/freezing/quitting applications unexpectadly within a week of me getting it.
basically been on their backs since trying to get it sorted and I just feel i'm being fobbed off at this stage :mad:

have been on to god no's how many technicians, spent hrs on the phone going through every possible procedure to fix the problem(and they keep trying to get me to repeat the same steps, even though they have already been tried and didn't resolve the problem)
they finally said send it 4 repairs under warranty, I did this and the logic board was found to be faulty and was replaced.
got it back in december and the exact same problems were still there.
Many more phonecalls and still getting the same [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL] :mad:
I rang consumer affairs an dey said after one repair if the same fault still occurs I am then entitled to a replacement or refund.
rang apple back with this info an one guy said ok try reinstalling the OS one more time and if this doesn't improve things then it will be replaced. tried this and failed(again!) so rang them back. this time I was told that apparently consumer laws don't apply, and there policy is it must be repaired 3 times before replacement. asked to speak to a supervisor who then told me they will NEVER replace it for me.
after much more ringing and trying to get talking to some1 a bit more customer friendly the best option i was offered was to get it repaired once more and if the problem persists then il get a replacement.(but refused to give me this in writing :rolleyes:)
felt my hands were tied so sent it off 4 another repair (during repair one person told me the replacement logic board was faulty, another said its an incompatible font causing trouble from an application i installed(?), and finally wen i got it back the fault invoice thing they gave me back with it says there was/is no fault detected) WOT THE HELL??
got it back again and STILL faulty.
they still wont replace it and said basically that there is nothing wrong with the machine (its all in my head?) but try completely deleting the hard disk and reinstalling, so it can start up just like from new, as if there is a problem it must have been something I installed, even though this problem has been occuring since the start before id even got a chance to install nethin!

so furious, there now saying i should use it as normal to see if the problem still persists, BUT im writing my thesis for college at the moment so need to use pages (which was originally pre-installed), and the internet but was told i need to use it without installing ANYTHING, so cant download drivers 4 modem, or type my thesis so what the hell am i meant to do now!!also told me to install new updates again which i cant do without internet, so decided to just install the modem drivers. of course it keeps saying either A) im not connected to d internet(even though 02 box says i am), no new updates are available(there are) or C) doesnt recognise the modem.
now of course there going to blame the modem, even though software tests (they did one and so did I) said there was no software issues before i deleted everything.
also cant access ne of my backed up stuff because they told me not to put ne of it back on my mac as something der must be causing the (apparently non existant) problem
sorry 4 the long rant, this doesnt even cover everything! but after 5 months of crap surely they have to replace it or at least give me a sensible option?
bought it brand new, guts of a grand i could barely afford but saved cos i thought i was buying the best machine 4 my needs(in art college)
causing havoc with college work, as keep having to try borrow other peoples laptops or trying to just get all my work done within college hrs which isnt really possible with the amount of work I have to get done
HELP!!!!
can ne1 out there from apple or consumer rights related tell me where I stand, as i seem to get a different story every time i ring

Elessar

Ok, take a deep breath! I sympathise with your problems. Lets work out what to do here.

In the short term, I would advise you to make a thread over on the Mac forum explaining exactly what errors are happening, when where and how. A few of us might be able to troubleshoot for you and maybe get the machine stable enough to let you work on it.

After that, don't mind what Apple say, you are covered under the law. The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 states that a product must be fit for purpose, which yours clearly isnt. Apple's policy is irrelevant. You have given them chance to repair and it hasn't worked. The first repair must be permanent, and if the same fault occurs again, you are a position to receive a replacement (or refund).

The thing about Apple is that they have CS reps all over the world. 99% won't have any clue about Irish consumer law and so will give you their "repair policy" ad nauseum.

Ring Apple and get an Irish voice on the phone (they have Irish CS reps but it might take a few tries), ask to speak to a Supervisor. Outline one last time the problems with the machine, then quote the Act above, that the macbook is not fit for purpose, the repair has failed so you will not accept anything other than a replacement. Mention that you are willing to take this to the small claims court.

If he/she doesn't agree or fobs you off with another install or repair, write a registered letter with essentially the same information above and send it to their European HQ in Cork. Give them two weeks to respond or you will file a case against them with the SCC.

If that doesn't work, go to the small claims court website and file a case. It costs 15 euro and the court registrar will do all the work. He/she will attempt to mediate and come to an agreement on your behalf. From what you have mentioned, you have a very good case and you should have nothing to worry about. You will get this sorted.

Any questions feel free to ask here. One thing to keep in mind is that these matters rarely ever reach the court. 90% of claims are settled. I have a feeling though once you get through to Apple's irish people, you'll be sorted in no time.

nix1

thank you!
problem is i keep getting different advice/info/assurance evry time i ring, and dont want to go down the small claims root as itl take ages!!
if i have to i will but the problem is no matter what i say about consumer law etc. they seem to find a way around it :mad:
first of all, i appreciate you offering the advice on the mac forum, but after countless phonecalls explaining the problem and trying to repair it i think ive troubleshooted evry possibility since they are now just repeating themselves regards over the phone support.
I have stated the sales of goods act, and they have tried a number of different ways around this;
one person said he knows irish law very well(though was not irish) and that they were being compliant, and i can go ask a solicitor about it(d cheek!).
another tried to tell me this fault is unrelated to previous repairs so i am not entitled to a replacement re the repair once then replace it scenario.(how do i prove otherwise?)
yet another told me they will not replace the machine unless a fault is established, and apparently they cant find one now, so im stuck with it until i can prove whats wrong (is this true?)
when i did speak to a supervisor he said i will never get a replacement.

as for the few nice voices ive had on the phone who were understanding and told me id get a replacement, ive been told by others that info was incorrect.
they now have me dealing with one person in particular, who assured me after this second repair it would be replaced, but refused to give this in writing and is now just passing me over to technicians who keep saying there is nothing wrong on the one hand, and on the other that ne problem that does exist has to be software related and ultimately my fault, but still cant give a reasonable solution, or find the fault.
as I said before, i bought it brand new and the only applications up until the first repair were apple brand and pre installed, other than the broadband modem, so surely they cant blame me!

i suppose all i can do is be persistant and just keep bugging dem (wasting yet more valuable time on d phone 4 ever!!)
thanks for your advice and hopefully il calm down a bit again tomorrow before another phonecall to apple sets me off again :eek:

foggy_lad

i advise you to forget apple and bring this faulty device back to the shop you bought it! they are the only people obliged by law to deal with you!

and it looks like apple are trying to drag out things untill the end of their own warrenty period when they can offer to fix it and charge you for it! this macbook is obviously not fit for purpose and should be replaced and all the time you spent with apple is now probably wasted as the retailer will want to and is entitled to attempt a repair themselves regardless of any failed attempts by apple!

your statutory rights are very clear on these matters and apple dont care about your statutory rights as they are not a party to the contract between you and the retailer.

this may take some time to sort out but should work out well in the end although it may involve going through the smal claims court(costs €15) to get a proper repair or replacement or a refund.

as for starting a thread on the mac forum why should you have to put in all the work on this when you were sold something thet does not work properly? it will do no harm though but i would still pursue the retailer for a repair replacement and if all else fails a refund!

and any replacement you accept from apple may well be a refurbished unit which someone else has returned due to it being faulty so i would be looking at having the retailer dealing exclusively with this.

Elessar

I'm very surprised to hear Apple's responses. They are usually quite good with these things.

Anyway, Apple are wrong, you are right. I take it you purchased the notebook from Apple direct? In which case the contract is with them.

It seems, from your replys, that Apple are only going to listen to the letter of the law on this one. Don't let them fob you off again. I know it can take 4-6 weeks or so for the Small claims process but it would give them the kick up the arse they need. At this stage I would do it on principle. Maybe give the registrar in your local district court a ring and explain the situation to him, see if he can give you advice.

Write and send the registered letter, make it calm and polite but firm. Let them know you understand your rights and will not accept any more policy nonsense off them. As I said, give them two weeks. Then go to the SCC. I would be confident that within days of sending the letter or court case, you'll get a call from Apple with an appology.

Regarding the faults, once you can reproduce them that's all you need. I'm not even sure if this is a requirement.

nix1

thanks for the replies, foggy_lad as elessar said I bought directly from apples online store, my contract is with them.
i think they are just hoping to fob me off until warranty runs out.
Elessar, im very surprised and dissapointed with their handling of this too, as from what ive heard they are usaually quite helpful.
whilst some of the (many) tech support guys i spoke to were polite, understanding and tried to help and assure me it would be replaced, they are seriously overshadowed by all the bad experiences ive had in dealing with them.

il ring them one more time today asking 4 a replacement as dey have already been given ample opportunity to repair between phone support and sending it in twice.
il go with d advice, and tell them if they cannot give me a reasonable and fair solution today i will be sending an official written complaint with a time limit of one week for redress/reply, and if not i will go to SCC.
wish me luck
will update later

foggy_lad

nix1 wrote: »

thanks for the replies, foggy_lad as elessar said I bought directly from apples online store, my contract is with them.
i think they are just hoping to fob me off until warranty runs out.
Elessar, im very surprised and dissapointed with their handling of this too, as from what ive heard they are usaually quite helpful.
whilst some of the (many) tech support guys i spoke to were polite, understanding and tried to help and assure me it would be replaced, they are seriously overshadowed by all the bad experiences ive had in dealing with them.

il ring them one more time today asking 4 a replacement as dey have already been given ample opportunity to repair between phone support and sending it in twice.
il go with d advice, and tell them if they cannot give me a reasonable and fair solution today i will be sending an official written complaint with a time limit of one week for redress/reply, and if not i will go to SCC.
wish me luck
will update later

i wouldnt even bother ringing because most call centres are just there to keep customers from writing complaints letters. write out your complaint detailing the issues and telling them you expect this to be dealt with(a new replacement) within two weeks or you will take action in the courts

whiterebel

Just a couple of small things:

Which Cust Service are you ringing? I know this sounds like a stupid question, but there is AppleStore aftersales, and then a general Custoemr Services Dept. I always found the AppleStore aftersales to be excellent, and certainly much better than the "ordinary" Customer Services. They don't (at least didn't) have the first clue of Consumer Law, they were never trained in it. Indeed, I had a solicitor on from England with a faulty Powerbook who absolutely cleaned their clock for them in CS and gave them (and me) a lesson in the Sale of Goods Act that really shook them up.

AppleStore aftersales is the Applestore number and then pick the option after that. The other CS you go through (or used to) to Tech Support and then are passed on to CS.

The only thing that would ring alarm bells with me are the Modem drivers. Of all things guaranteed to give Macs coronaries down through the years - Modem drivers. Can you not connect the modem up via Ethernet and manage it via web browser? Unusual these days to hear of Modem drivers.

Just read through your post again - Is it an O2 Modem dongle or stick, plugs in via USB? if so, I use one of those, and I never downloaded drivers for it, I just had to add it as a modem in System Preferences.

FYI, when you send the machine back for repair, the repair centre will wipe the drive clean, do a fresh install of the OS and run it on a testbed for a while, which may explain why its working ok for a while after being sent away. Apple's policy was always 3 repairs - replacement, no matter for the same fault or a different one.

zenno

write a letter explaining everything that went wrong with the laptop and that you contacted apple technical support. but keep the letter short and simple. and don't forget to register the letter in the post office.
include your name, home address and telephone number including the service tag or simular.
also include this in the letter when you are finished writing it.

under the sale of goods and supply of services act, 1980; goods should be of merchantable quality.

under irish consumer law my contract is with the seller of the goods and as such i am writing to you to seek a ( you write what you want here. replacement/refund)

I would appreciate a response to my complaint within 10 working days.


Apple Sales International

Hollyhill Industrial Estate
Hollyhill, Cork
Republic of Ireland

I can confirm that this is the correct address to send your letter to. so good luck. you should get a phonecall after 3 to 4 days from them.

the pen is mightier than the sword.

keithclancy

so furious, there now saying i should use it as normal to see if the problem still persists, BUT im writing my thesis for college at the moment so need to use pages (which was originally pre-installed), and the internet but was told i need to use it without installing ANYTHING, so cant download drivers 4 modem, or type my thesis so what the hell am i meant to do now!!also told me to install new updates again which i cant do without internet, so decided to just install the modem drivers. of course it keeps saying either A) im not connected to d internet(even though 02 box says i am), no new updates are available(there are) or C) doesnt recognise the modem.

Common problem in bold there, personally i steer away from any type of USB modem, buggy drivers or a faulty device can easily crash your machine.

Elessar

Any update?

Nonoperational

You don't need any modem drivers. This sounds strange. Programmes quitting/crashing is 99% of times a software problem. I may be wrong but it sounds very much to me like this is a software issue.

jhegarty

gpf101 wrote: »

You don't need any modem drivers. This sounds strange. Programmes quitting/crashing is 99% of times a software problem. I may be wrong but it sounds very much to me like this is a software issue.

Faulty memory can also be a common cause of frequent crashing.

keithclancy

gpf101 wrote: »

You don't need any modem drivers. This sounds strange. Programmes quitting/crashing is 99% of times a software problem. I may be wrong but it sounds very much to me like this is a software issue.

USB modems require a driver to work, its very common for a USB Device such as a modem to cause a system crash as it requires a Kernel Extension to work.

Example:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1824593&tstart=-1

Can sometimes be down to buggy drivers but can also be due to a faulty device.

Very common and the customer always blames the Machine and not the device.

whiterebel

keithclancy wrote: »

USB modems require a driver to work, its very common for a USB Device such as a modem to cause a system crash as it requires a Kernel Extension to work.

Example:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1824593&tstart=-1

Can sometimes be down to buggy drivers but can also be due to a faulty device.

Very common and the customer always blames the Machine and not the device.

One of the Huwaei O2 ones certainly didn't need any driver to work with my Macbook.

keithclancy

whiterebel wrote: »

One of the Huwaei O2 ones certainly didn't need any driver to work with my Macbook.

The driver for the Huawei modems comes on the modem itself, it contains a USB Mass storage device that appears as a disk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220

Technically it is a modem, USB and (due to the CDFS format) virtual CD-ROM device.

All devices outside the standard USB profiles require a driver.

whiterebel

keithclancy wrote: »

The driver for the Huawei modems comes on the modem itself, it contains a USB Mass storage device that appears as a disk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220


All devices outside the standard USB profiles require a driver.

That makes sense. Every time I plugged it in, it gave an eror "This disk is unreadable by this computer....."