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At what point does it become corruption?

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  • 08-02-2010 5:04pm
    #1
    def
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭


    What is the difference between a political donation and a bribe?

    What happens to the "left overs" from political donations when the campaigning is finished?

    Who thinks its a good idea to expose future leaders to the notion accepting
    money from people like this is a good idea?


    Does anyone know of a better way?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    def wrote: »
    What is the difference between a political donation and a bribe?

    What happens to the "left overs" from political donations when the campaigning is finished?

    Who thinks its a good idea to expose future leaders to the notion accepting
    money from people like this is a good idea?


    Does anyone know of a better way?

    Well it seems if you make these donors 'friends' you can pretty much do what you like. Maybe anyone holding public office should be made keep records of all financial dealings and it should be up to others to decide if there is a conflict of interest. Part of agreeing to take up public office should be that all financial and business activities are recorded. It would soon separate the honest from the Berties.


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    #3
    def
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭def


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Well it seems if you make these donors 'friends' you can pretty much do what you like. Maybe anyone holding public office should be made keep records of all financial dealings and it should be up to others to decide if there is a conflict of interest. Part of agreeing to take up public office should be that all financial and business activities are recorded. It would soon separate the honest from the Berties.


    i think all the donations are recored but im no expert ...im not sure but i remember reading someone got an aul slap on the wrist for their campaign donations totals not adding up spent/received

    check out this link let me know what you think , dont be shy i can take constructive critisism , and enjoy wallowing in praise

    http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055813425


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    #4
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,958 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    def wrote: »
    i think all the donations are recored but im no expert ...im not sure but i remember reading someone got an aul slap on the wrist for their campaign donations totals not adding up spent/received
    IIRC much more was spent on the election than was received in donations
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/election-spend-can-be-hidden--corruption-watchdog-2031390.html


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    #5
    def
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭def


    thats a very interesting article , right up my tree

    "GRECO's report said existing laws could allow political parties and election candidates to find ways to keep their finances secret."

    id love to see a full list of funders for all of them , i wonder if that would help explain some of the policy making , could it perhaps be ,that they consern themselves with their owners or buyers, rather than their electers?

    to say its an important relevent topic would be an understatement , i think this needs to be sorted out before an attempt is made at any of the rest of societys problems,

    for if a person wants run with the wolves they must first sell their soul to compete ,it seems the person who can sell out ,to the lowest point , makes the most and worst "friends"


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    #6
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    def wrote: »
    i think all the donations are recored but im no expert ...im not sure but i remember reading someone got an aul slap on the wrist for their campaign donations totals not adding up spent/received

    check out this link let me know what you think , dont be shy i can take constructive critisism , and enjoy wallowing in praise

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055813425

    I think there's officially recorded donations and off the record dig out/bribes. It would be good if they literally had to account for every scent (all bank accounts, fund raisers, business 'friend' meetings, wins on the horses) and if you didn't like it, you couldn't hold a public office.

    Just read your other post: the internet open forum isn't a bad idea, but it would probably end up a talking shop. I can't see any politician giving a damn.


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    #7
    allisbleak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭allisbleak


    def wrote: »
    What is the difference between a political donation and a bribe?

    What happens to the "left overs" from political donations when the campaigning is finished?

    Who thinks its a good idea to expose future leaders to the notion accepting
    money from people like this is a good idea?


    Does anyone know of a better way?

    Dear Bertie, .....


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    #8
    def
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭def


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Just read your other post: the internet open forum isn't a bad idea, but it would probably end up a talking shop. I can't see any politician giving a damn.


    a talking shop ... thats whats needed or? a bit of comunication between man and master , interaction and accountability , if you lie or make false promises you will be held to them , ideas and proposals can be disected by those they will effect , polls and so on can pick off unnessacery positions , councils etc ,
    and there is a clearer picture of public opinion , not just media opinion

    best of all no need for "donations"


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    #9
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    It will be interesting to see what the Mahon Tribunal will make of Bertie's "a political donation for my personal use" defence.


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    #10
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see what the Mahon Tribunal will make of Bertie's "a political donation for my personal use" defence.

    The only way the public will see any justice is from the Taxman, if at all.


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    #11
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    def wrote: »
    a talking shop ... thats whats needed or? a bit of comunication between man and master , interaction and accountability , if you lie or make false promises you will be held to them , ideas and proposals can be disected by those they will effect , polls and so on can pick off unnessacery positions , councils etc ,
    and there is a clearer picture of public opinion , not just media opinion

    best of all no need for "donations"

    Unless hundreds of thousands log on it would be ignored and thanks to FF's big drive on Broadband access a number of years ago:rolleyes: a hell of a lot of people simply don't have access.
    Slightly, off topic; I recall talk on online voting, which I thought was a good idea, but the government couldn't be trusted with the logistics. This later led to the e-voting machines....one word 'Titanic', epic fail.
    So, (back on topic) although a good idea in essense, not one man jack of them has the cop on to oversee this kind of set up and I would have a very hard time trusing any data that came from it, what with the government being mostly comprised of lying b*******, (couldn't help it).


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    #12
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,958 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    It would be good if they literally had to account for every scent (all bank accounts, fund raisers, business 'friend' meetings, wins on the horses) and if you didn't like it, you couldn't hold a public office.
    Given that politicians don't even need to be personally tax compliant, I can't see this being implemented!


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    #13
    allisbleak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭allisbleak


    def wrote: »
    a talking shop ... thats whats needed or? a bit of comunication between man and master , interaction and accountability , if you lie or make false promises you will be held to them , ideas and proposals can be disected by those they will effect , polls and so on can pick off unnessacery positions , councils etc ,
    and there is a clearer picture of public opinion , not just media opinion

    best of all no need for "donations"

    There should be no need for donations, there should be no need for TD's getting involved in assisting their constituents if our services were any good in the 1st place. What do they do all day?


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    #14
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,958 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    allisbleak wrote: »
    What do they do all day?
    Mainly stuff that they should not be doing!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0205/1224263814106.html


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    #15
    allisbleak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭allisbleak


    kbannon wrote: »
    Mainly stuff that they should not be doing!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0205/1224263814106.html



    “For every hour the average TD spends on legislative work, an hour and 25 minutes is spent on constituency-based work.”

    "The largest single category of constituency work was identified as working on individual constituents’ cases, which accounted for more than one-fifth of the average TD’s workload."

    its just gone beyond a joke at this stage. I hope some mad anarchist org justs starts ramdonly shooting them now, because the only way to deal with these fools is to cull them.


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    #16
    def
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭def


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Unless hundreds of thousands log on it would be ignored and thanks to FF's big drive on Broadband access a number of years ago:rolleyes: a hell of a lot of people simply don't have access.
    Slightly, off topic; I recall talk on online voting, which I thought was a good idea, but the government couldn't be trusted with the logistics. This later led to the e-voting machines....one word 'Titanic', epic fail.
    So, (back on topic) although a good idea in essense, not one man jack of them has the cop on to oversee this kind of set up and I would have a very hard time trusing any data that came from it, what with the government being mostly comprised of lying b*******, (couldn't help it).

    the whole idea is better explained as e-campaigning , except it isnt just a few week long blitz , its a perminent record of everything for all to see ,if they want to go looking ,so our streets and canidates stay clean etc


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