Are Haitians being unreasonable?

alexlyons

First off, I believe the richer nations should be helping haiti with aid and the like, and wiping their bilateral debt is a solid move. However, just saw the news on the ol' sky+ box and seeing the haitians protest about the distribution and other aspects of the aid they are getting got me thinking. Are they being unreasonable and selfish? I mean, we (used loosely and collectively) are helping them out of this naturally caused mess, so should they not be grateful, whatever way the help comes? Or are they completely justified in protesting about how everyone is helping them? Now you may think my tone suggests that they should just shut up and be grateful, not true, I feel we should help them and it should be much more co-ordinated than it is, but I definitely thought when I saw them protesting "is that not a bit selfish?"

What do people think? Get a bit of a discussion going maybe?

Hank_Jones

You'd be angry too if you were living in a tent with very little food to eat and poor facilities for washing etc.

There's an old saying "beggers can't be choosers", in situations like this when they are at the mercy of the outside world - they should be greatful for any help they get.

After all, no one is forcing the donar nations to help. A century or so ago, they would have received no help at all!

dvpower

alexlyons wrote: »

First off, I believe the richer nations should be helping haiti with aid and the like, and wiping their bilateral debt is a solid move. However, just saw the news on the ol' sky+ box and seeing the haitians protest about the distribution and other aspects of the aid they are getting got me thinking. Are they being unreasonable and selfish? I mean, we (used loosely and collectively) are helping them out of this naturally caused mess, so should they not be grateful, whatever way the help comes? Or are they completely justified in protesting about how everyone is helping them? Now you may think my tone suggests that they should just shut up and be grateful, not true, I feel we should help them and it should be much more co-ordinated than it is, but I definitely thought when I saw them protesting "is that not a bit selfish?"

What do people think? Get a bit of a discussion going maybe?

You saw it on your Sky+ box, ye say?

ejmaztec

They can moan all they like to their government, because they're ultimately responsible for looking after the Haitians, but they can't moan at anyone else.

thetonynator

the main problem with the distribution of aid is that while there was practically no infrastructure beforehand, there is nothing left which makes distributing aid impossible . . .the aid is there, its just giving it out is impossible

alexlyons

Deleted User wrote: »

There's an old saying "beggers can't be choosers", in situations like this when they are at the mercy of the outside world - they should be greatful for any help they get.

that's what I was kind of getting at. Yes I would be angry but it comes back to that saying. As i said I believe we should help, just wondering what peoepl think of their reaction... And yes, I did see it on my sky+ box, thought I'd throw that in for a bit of extra spice I have done more than my fair share of donation to them in their time of need.

mikom

They're lucky to be getting help at all..... all they did was shoot at me in GTA Vice city.

alexlyons

thetonynator wrote: »

the main problem with the distribution of aid is that while there was practically no infrastructure beforehand, there is nothing left which makes distributing aid impossible . . .the aid is there, its just giving it out is impossible

Very true, so based on that they shouldn't really be protesting as it's not really anyone's fault.. Maybe the able bodied ones could, if they aren't already (which in fairness they probably are), help in the distribution?

mikom wrote: »

They're lucky to be getting help at all..... all they did was shoot at me in GTA Vice city.

Kintarō Hattori

I don't think you can begin to understand the way they see things, I can't either. The way life works for you and the way it works for the average Haitian is completely different. We are extremely lucky in Ireland that we have a very privilaged upbringing compared to most parts of the world.

What seems unreasonable to you is not so to many other people. Generally we don't have to worry about feeding ourselves or having a roof over our head.

Really, regardless of all the crap we perceive, we are extremely lucky people.

daisybelle2008

They have a history of their government exploiting them and plundering aid and resources (Papa Doc anyone?). Surely they should be voicing concern, they got seriously burnt before by Duvalier and others.

dr.fuzzenstein

Quite frankly if my family was starving to death I would get aid to them any way I can, even if I'd have to shoot someone.
When you're right at the line you don't have time to reflect on such niceties like "isn't it nice that they're making such an effort", when you're starving to death you're desperate and don't give two f*cks.
So, if it seems ungrateful on a logical level, on a human level it's just what will happen.

alexlyons

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I don't think you can begin to understand the way they see things, I can't either. The way life works for you and the way it works for the average Haitian is completely different. We are extremely lucky in Ireland that we have a very privilaged upbringing compared to most parts of the world.

What seems unreasonable to you is not so to many other people. Generally we don't have to worry about feeding ourselves or having a roof over our head.

Really, regardless of all the crap we perceive, we are extremely lucky people.

More lucky than we can imagine. I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong or unreasonable, suppose I'm just looking at different cultures/ways of living...

jumpguy

When you're hungry, you've hungry children, you've trouble finding clean water, some of your friends/family are dead, you'd be pretty angry too tbh.

Magnum

I know it doesn't mean much but I just heard that the seven super powers of the world have agreed to drop their depts in Haiti.

alexlyons

Mentioned that in the OP as well!! Although not very clearly.. What's your opinion on it? Is that enough?

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Quite frankly if my family was starving to death I would get aid to them any way I can, even if I'd have to shoot someone.

What in God's name would shooting someone accomplish?

Magnum

alexlyons wrote: »

Mentioned that in the OP as well!! Although not very clearly.. What's your opinion on it? Is that enough?

I think myself that the country has to sort itself out now. From this moment on the Hatian Government have no foregin debts.

How much money has been collected worldwide for the cleanup/aid effort ?

Now what they should do is start employing their own people to cleanup their own country, at least if that were to happen people would be busy....

But then again I am not living out there, so what do you think they(Haitian government) should do next

Stark

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

What in God's name would shooting someone accomplish?

You can eat their flesh afterwards.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

What in God's name would shooting someone accomplish?

It means the difference between one hungry person and two starving people, life's like that!

Magnum

Magnum wrote: »

I think myself that the country has to sort itself out now. From this moment on the Hatian Government have no foregin debts.

How much money has been collected worldwide for the cleanup/aid effort ?

Now what they should do is start employing their own people to cleanup their own country, at least if that were to happen people would be busy....

But then again I am not living out there, so what do you think they(Haitian government) should do next

That sounds a bit like the marshall plan used in the late 1940's to rebuild Europe after WWII, just look at (west) Germany now.

Magnum

Deleted User wrote: »

That sounds a bit like the marshall plan used in the late 1940's to rebuild Europe after WWII, just look at (west) Germany now.

Maybe so, but if they were to employ their own people to clean up at least they would have something to do and get paid for it, obviously their arent many jobs out there at the moment.

( What do I know I'm not out there)

citizen_p

alexlyons wrote: »

First off, I believe the richer nations should be helping haiti with aid and the like, and wiping their bilateral debt is a solid move. However, just saw the news on the ol' sky+ box and seeing the haitians protest about the distribution and other aspects of the aid they are getting got me thinking. Are they being unreasonable and selfish? I mean, we (used loosely and collectively) are helping them out of this naturally caused mess, so should they not be grateful, whatever way the help comes? Or are they completely justified in protesting about how everyone is helping them? Now you may think my tone suggests that they should just shut up and be grateful, not true, I feel we should help them and it should be much more co-ordinated than it is, but I definitely thought when I saw them protesting "is that not a bit selfish?"

What do people think? Get a bit of a discussion going maybe?

the nation should shut the fek up..but the people, no....they are arguing because food isnt being distributed evenly..like this town got 2000 tonnes this only got 500

Victor

ejmaztec wrote: »

They can moan all they like to their government, because they're ultimately responsible for looking after the Haitians, but they can't moan at anyone else.

But when their government has been undermined by other governments and international businesses for more than a century?

TomTom

Your first mistake was believing anything you see on sky news, this is a station that spoke for 15 minutes this morning about John Terrys "private life" and just over 1 minute on INLA disarmourment.

The Hatians have been screwed over time and time again by foreign governments and while the US and France should be providing the majority of the care they need what they can and you would be pissed too regardless of the situation if your family and friends were dyingg around you.

stateofflux

TomTom wrote: »

Your first mistake was believing anything you see on sky news, this is a station that spoke for 15 minutes this morning about John Terrys "private life" and just over 1 minute on INLA dismemberment.

The Hatians have been screwed over time and time again by foreign governments and while the US and France should be providing the majority of the care they need what they can and you would be pissed too regardless of the situation if your family and friends were dyingg around you.

i have to agree with this... also i don't think you can judge haitians with a first world viewpoint when you have never lived true poverty.....

yogy

alexlyons wrote: »

Or are they completely justified in protesting about how everyone is helping them?

Your statement is ignorant and the above sentence make no sense whatsoever.
They are not protesting about receiving help.

It is quite clear that the international relief effort has been a disaster.
Hundreds of agencies from all over the world but with very little communication and co-ordination between them. It seemed each one wanted to be seen as being the best.
Way too much time and resources were spent on searching for, what turned out to be, only about 100 trapped bodies. Focus should have been on the thousands injured instead who subsequently died from their injuries.

The problem now is that Haiti has no infrastructure to get the urgent supplies to the people. Yes the West is giving huge sums in the relief effort but this isn't been seen by the Haitians who die everyday from disease and hunger.
Add corruption to this and maybe now it is clear that some feel the need to make their voices heard!

m@cc@

alexlyons wrote: »

What do people think? Get a bit of a discussion going maybe?

I would discuss if the OP wasn't so devoid of empathy for what the Haitians are going through or showed a complete lack of understanding of how Haiti has spent the last century being a plaything for France and the US to the extent where it was f****** long before the earthquake. The only positive thing coming from the earthquake is that essentially it gives the opportunity to 'start again' and try to build a sustainable country that Haitians can believe in.

I doubt that will happen as the in these cases, the US usually will want something for it's 'relief'.

jimmycrackcorm

It's an Irish thing not to complain and protest. We should give the Haitians lessons in Gaelige and Riverdancing.

hooradiation

alexlyons wrote: »

First off, I believe the richer nations should be helping haiti with aid and the like, and wiping their bilateral debt is a solid move. However, just saw the news on the ol' sky+ box and seeing the haitians protest about the distribution and other aspects of the aid they are getting got me thinking. Are they being unreasonable and selfish? I mean, we (used loosely and collectively) are helping them out of this naturally caused mess, so should they not be grateful, whatever way the help comes? Or are they completely justified in protesting about how everyone is helping them? Now you may think my tone suggests that they should just shut up and be grateful, not true, I feel we should help them and it should be much more co-ordinated than it is, but I definitely thought when I saw them protesting "is that not a bit selfish?"

What do people think? Get a bit of a discussion going maybe?

I think you need to stop talking about a situation where the sum of your knowledge comes via whatever tidbits you happen to pay attention to on the idiot box.

Xluna

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's an Irish thing not to complain be cynical and protest begrudging.

Fixed it.

ejmaztec

Victor wrote: »

But when their government has been undermined by other governments and international businesses for more than a century?

If successive regimes in Haiti weren't so unbelievably corrupt, the situation would be a lot different. The government doesn't get undermined, it gets backhanders. Any interested parties take advantage of this.

Their corrupt politicians don't give a toss as long as they're not out of pocket. Didn't one of them announce a couple of weeks that this disaster was going to be good for Haiti?

The very same politicians will be the only ones benefiting when Haiti's debts get written off, as they'll be able to stash away even more loot.

alexlyons

hooradiation wrote: »

I think you need to stop talking about a situation where the sum of your knowledge comes via whatever tidbits you happen to pay attention to on the idiot box.

Maybe I'm far more knowledgeable than most on the current situation? Or maybe I'd like to further my knowledge of the situation not only through factual sources but also other peoples knowledge and opinions? Maybe I'm originally from haiti, or have friends there? Food for thought.

hooradiation

alexlyons wrote: »

Maybe I'm far more knowledgeable than most on the current situation? Or maybe I'd like to further my knowledge of the situation not only through factual sources but also other peoples knowledge and opinions? Maybe I'm originally from haiti, or have friends there? Food for thought.

All of those are lies.

alexlyons

hooradiation wrote: »

All of those are lies.

pretty tall statement, but if that's the extent of of your capacity to read other people, so be it.

BickNarry

Magnum wrote: »

I think myself that the country has to sort itself out now. From this moment on the Hatian Government have no foregin debts.

How much money has been collected worldwide for the cleanup/aid effort ?

Now what they should do is start employing their own people to cleanup their own country, at least if that were to happen people would be busy....

But then again I am not living out there, so what do you think they(Haitian government) should do next

Please, go educate yourself.Things arn't that simple.

Sorting itself out is something that isn'tpossible for a long time.

You have America, first of all to thank for that. They have interfered in Haiti's government for a long time, appointing 'Democratic'' leaders and so on. Because Haiti has wanted to be independant, it has not recieved the halp neighbouring Dominican Republic has i.e letting America use their resources in return for capital,jobs etc. A country who gained their independance froma slave revolt will not appease america,and rightly so.

THe aid will only trickle through whatever system is in place.It slike when westerners whinge about ''But we give so much money to Africa!'' No,regimes have taken the money so people never get a chance. they might bulit the orphanage,but it will never be maintained.

Cancelling their debt is good BUT i fear that Haiti's abundant resources might suffer in future in repayment.the worst outcome from this, and probably most likely, is that Haiti will pay back the aid in its culture. In ''rebuilding'' they will looose it. They don't have much to rebuild so multinational companies will swoop in offering jobs,jobs which loose haiti its identity. Itis like in one hand a gift,but the other a bill.

SoupyNorman

Stop Haitin' you guys

BickNarry

BickNarry wrote: »

Please, go educate yourself.Things arn't that simple.

Sorting itself out is something that isn'tpossible for a long time.

You have America, first of all to thank for that. They have interfered in Haiti's government for a long time, appointing 'Democratic'' leaders and so on. Because Haiti has wanted to be independant, it has not recieved the halp neighbouring Dominican Republic has i.e letting America use their resources in return for capital,jobs etc. A country who gained their independance froma slave revolt will not appease america,and rightly so.

THe aid will only trickle through whatever system is in place.It slike when westerners whinge about ''But we give so much money to Africa!'' No,regimes have taken the money so people never get a chance. they might bulit the orphanage,but it will never be maintained.

Cancelling their debt is good BUT i fear that Haiti's abundant resources might suffer in future in repayment.the worst outcome from this, and probably most likely, is that Haiti will pay back the aid in its culture. In ''rebuilding'' they will looose it. They don't have much to rebuild so multinational companies will swoop in offering jobs,jobs which loose haiti its identity. Itis like in one hand a gift,but the other a bill.

I'm probably misunderstanding, but what abundant resources do you mean? Sugar cane, etc?

BickNarry

Oil most importantly.My uncle works with a guy from Haiti (forgiegn company) and he was telling me bout what hes said,so i went and read around bout the gaf.Venezuala, which supplies huge quantities of oil around the world, has been described as a glass of water next to Haiti's olympic pool(of il of course!)

The question that i can't shrug off is- New Orleans is ****ed, America did **** all bout it,it was ****ed to begin with, and **** all has been done to help it. Yet within a week there were 10,000 U.S troops in Haiti-Why?

m@cc@

alexlyons wrote: »

Maybe I'm far more knowledgeable than most on the current situation? Or maybe I'd like to further my knowledge of the situation not only through factual sources but also other peoples knowledge and opinions? Maybe I'm originally from haiti, or have friends there? Food for thought.

That's given me a peanut's worth of thought since you've come to AH to 'further your knowledge'.

BickNarry

BickNarry wrote: »

Oil most importantly.My uncle works with a guy from Haiti (forgiegn company) and he was telling me bout what hes said,so i went and read around bout the gaf.Venezuala, which supplies huge quantities of oil around the world, has been described as a glass of water next to Haiti's olympic pool(of il of course!)

The question that i can't shrug off is- New Orleans is ****ed, America did **** all bout it,it was ****ed to begin with, and **** all has been done to help it. Yet within a week there were 10,000 U.S troops in Haiti-Why?

Oil would certainly make the US interested in ensuring that the regime remains friendly to the west!