Student Deaths

x in the city

Is it just me or is there an inordinarly amount of students at ucc dying, its mad to think students in the prime of their lifes die, 3 died over christmas? and one at an arts ball last nite apparently...


what gives...?

bazmaiden

From what??

BigCheese

Its terrible alright. In fairness I think most of them were freak accidents, like that guy during Rag week last year, and the most recent guy on Thursday night, as well as suicide, which is the biggest killer of young men in Ireland.

RIP

Byron85

BigCheese wrote: »

Its terrible alright. In fairness I think most of them were freak accidents, like that guy during Rag week last year, and the most recent guy on Thursday night, as well as suicide, which is the biggest killer of young men in Ireland.

RIP

Apparently though we rank relatively low on the statistics for suicides across all of Europe. I found some statistics about it somewhere not long ago.

BigCheese

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Apparently though we rank relatively low on the statistics for suicides across all of Europe. I found some statistics about it somewhere not long ago.

Really? I'm surprised by that, I thought we were up there with the Scandanavian countries.

I do know that suicide is a bigger killer than car crashes but while 40 + million is spent on the RSA, only 4 million is spent on suicide prevention. Really tell you the priorities of the present government. Young people are unlikely to vote so they couldn't give a flying fucc about them :mad:

Byron85

BigCheese wrote: »

Really? I'm surprised by that, I thought we were up there with the Scandanavian countries.

I do know that suicide is a bigger killer than car crashes but while 40 + million is spent on the RSA, only 4 million is spent on suicide prevention. Really tell you the priorities of the present government. Young people are unlikely to vote so they couldn't give a flying fucc about them :mad:

I was surprised by it too as back where i'm from, there have been a lot of suicides/ attempted suicides in the last 6 years.

Edit: Found the list. We're pretty far down it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

pirateninja

6 UCC students have died this year. All of them in 3rd year or under.

Smurphette

pirateninja wrote: »

6 UCC students have died this year. All of them in 3rd year or under.

7.

Victor

A few things.

When you have tens of thousands of people, some of them will die each year.

The age profile for deaths is something along the lines of small peaks in the 0-5 year old group (generally diseases, often congenital diseases) and in the 17-25 year old groups (accidents, suicide, homocide, contagious diseases caught in exotic locations).

Very few people die aged 5-17 as they are healthy enough to have survived the world in early childhood and young enough to not be dabbling in drink, drugs, fisticuffs, motorised vehicles or combinations thereof. Over the age of 25, people tend to settle down a bit and are less likely to experiment with extreme stuff. Gradually death rates rise up to the age of 60-65 at which point they rise sharply - retiring from work results in some people losing the will to live and/or a lifetime of abusing their bodies catches up with them.

Given that we have very low mortality rates at childbirth (some of the lowest in the world) and in early childhood, deaths in the 17-25 group are the major factor affecting overall life expectancy.

rebel girl 15

BigCheese wrote: »

Really? I'm surprised by that, I thought we were up there with the Scandanavian countries.

I do know that suicide is a bigger killer than car crashes but while 40 + million is spent on the RSA, only 4 million is spent on suicide prevention. Really tell you the priorities of the present government. Young people are unlikely to vote so they couldn't give a flying fucc about them :mad:

Problem is that suicide and depression are such taboo subjects still, despite the leaps Ireland has made with other taboo subjects. There is not enough being spent on providing parasuicide nurses and other forms of help. The stats say that young men between 16-25 are most at risk of suicide while girls in that age group are most at risk of self harming.

With Adam Buggy, the arts student that died last week, Gardai are looking at some sinister circumstances, including the possibility that he could have been followed or even chased, and that he was assaulted earlier in the evening
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/assault-probe-follows-tragic-crash-2051110.html

3rd year student before last years RAG week, 3rd year student before this years RAG week - when you think about it like that it is freaky

Eliot Rosewater

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Problem is that suicide and depression are such taboo subjects still...

Bang on the money. Even on this very forum, where you think taboo would be lessened due to anonymity. No, any attempt to discuses the alcohol culture of UCC and how it can cause deaths here is met with a variety of: passing the buck (oh, but sure all all Unis do it), being labeled an S.U. hater (that seemingly entitles the accuser to ignore you), or being called insensitive or some other term designed to shut you up and hide the issue.

rebel girl 15

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Bang on the money. Even on this very forum, where you think taboo would be lessened due to anonymity. No, any attempt to discuses the alcohol culture of UCC and how it can cause deaths here is met with a variety of: passing the buck (oh, but sure all all Unis do it), being labeled an S.U. hater (that seemingly entitles the accuser to ignore you), or being called insensitive or some other term designed to shut you up and hide the issue.

I agree regarding there being an alcohol problem within the college, but I think it is a problem within every college tbh. I don't think enough is being done to tackle it, and despite some efforts, RAG week will be about going out getting hammered

samf

Please bear in mind that there is a Gardai investigation currently ongoing into this, and public speculation/rumor mongering might be distasteful and/or disrespectful. Especially for friends and family of the deceased, who may even be users here.

Aodan83

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I agree regarding there being an alcohol problem within the college, but I think it is a problem within every college tbh. I don't think enough is being done to tackle it, and despite some efforts, RAG week will be about going out getting hammered

I dont think its just confined to the colleges though. Pretty much everything in this country is linked with drink; weddings funerals, sporting events. The GAA championships were sponsored by Guiness for years. That means one of the largest, non-governmental, associations in the country that deals with children, is sponsored by an alcohol company.

Eliot Rosewater

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

passing the buck

.....

Aodan83 wrote: »

I dont think its just confined to the colleges though.

Seriously, whos going to have the courage to deal with the issue if were too busy passing the responsibility around?

Buceph

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Seriously, whos going to have the courage to deal with the issue if were too busy passing the responsibility around?

It's not that no-one has the courage, it's that their approach has been entirely wrong. Vilifying drinkers, acting holier than thou, having no sense of humour and demanding abstinence are all things that the anti-drink campaigners have done wrong. Even the anti-drink label is damaging.

grenache

I've never understood the mentality of people going out with the sole purpose of getting absolutely pissed. And yet bizarrely most students seem to consider it as some badge of honour. Its really sad that teenagers today think its cool to be totally ****-faced walking around Patrick St on a Saturday night. I blame the parents. Kids are not being brought up to respect alcohol. I drink to enjoy myself, not to get drunk. I know my limits and stick by them. Drink and its ill-effects are systemic throughout Irish society today. The whole culture has to change, from advertising right up to a zero tolerance of drink driving. Colleges also have a role to play in this

x in the city

hot birds giving out flyers to get **** faced at all events with cocktails for a euro and pints for a little more is not very clever either.

obviously young lads are easily led, end up getting pissed enough to think its ok to walk out of city bounds onto motorways alone to get home.

the ucc people who are responible for these events need to re think a bit, but of course they will say no one is telling lads to go out and get slaughtered on booze.

Eliot Rosewater

Buceph wrote: »

It's not that no-one has the courage, it's that their approach has been entirely wrong.

Indeed it is. Did anyone happen to get one of those flyers advising you on how to have a responsible house party? Among the suggestions were:

• Have a non-alcoholic night. As if people are going to pay attention to this, especially on Rag Week.
• Make one person a non-drinking warden of the party to make sure everyones ok and monitor noise.
• Make someone a warden of the door to watch whos coming in and out.
• Provide food and non-alcoholic drink for under-agers.
• Organize lifts for people, or if not, pay for taxis.

Do people who write these guides live on planet cuckoo land or something? In making it totally unreasonable they basically alienate people who would otherwise pay attention to it.

deisedude

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Indeed it is. Did anyone happen to get one of those flyers advising you on how to have a responsible house party? Among the suggestions were:

• Have a non-alcoholic night. As if people are going to pay attention to this, especially on Rag Week.
• Make one person a non-drinking warden of the party to make sure everyones ok and monitor noise.
• Make someone a warden of the door to watch whos coming in and out.
• Provide food and non-alcoholic drink for under-agers.
• Organize lifts for people, or if not, pay for taxis.

Do people who write these guides live on planet cuckoo land or something? In making it totally unreasonable they basically alienate people who would otherwise pay attention to it.

Whats wrong with those suggestions? They all seem like sensible ideas

Rebecca4welfare

I won't comment on the rest of the thread, but the houseparty tips doesn't say "have a non alcoholic party". It says "have a theme. Alcohol need not be the focus of your party". It just means that rather than having a party where the sole purpose is to get stocious you can have a party that has another element and another bit of fun with it.

Eliot Rosewater

deisedude wrote: »

Whats wrong with those suggestions? They all seem like sensible ideas

They're completely unreasonable. When we got the leaflets they were taken as a joke. Seriously, are you really going to appoint a non-drinking moderator for your party?

Once these leaflets become a joke no one pays attention to them. If you put 4 or 5 reasonable suggestions, or just edited out all the looney ones, you might be left with something of value.

@Rebecca4welfare: point taken.

deisedude

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

They're completely unreasonable. When we got the leaflets they were taken as a joke. Seriously, are you really going to appoint a non-drinking moderator for your party?

Once these leaflets become a joke no one pays attention to them. If you put 4 or 5 reasonable suggestions, or just edited out all the looney ones, you might be left with something of value.

@Rebecca4welfare: point taken.

Whats unreasonable about one person not drinking for a night to make sure the house isn't trashed?

Eliot Rosewater

deisedude wrote: »

Whats unreasonable about one person not drinking for a night to make sure the house isn't trashed?

It unreasonable asking people to do that because it obviously wont happen.

deisedude

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

It unreasonable asking people to do that because it obviously wont happen.

That doesn't make it unreasonable. The idea smacks of common sense and is relatively easily achieved. I fail to see how thats unreasonable. I'd go as far to say students are unreasonable for not even considering the suggestions

Eliot Rosewater

deisedude wrote: »

That doesn't make it unreasonable.

Im not saying the idea is unreasonable. Im saying asking students to implement them is unreasonable as they arent going to happen.

Better to put down small suggestions that have a possibility of being introduced.

rotinaj

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

I was surprised by it too as back where i'm from, there have been a lot of suicides/ attempted suicides in the last 6 years.

Edit: Found the list. We're pretty far down it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

A lot of suicides in Ireland are classed as death by misadventure. Thats why we are so low down on the list.

Professional Griefer

deisedude wrote: »

Whats unreasonable about one person not drinking for a night to make sure the house isn't trashed?

Have you ever spent the night with only a few drunk people? Its awful. Its slighty funny at times, but apart from that its hell, in my opinion in anyways. Imagine being around a house full of drunk people? Not a chance. You'd get stressed if everyone starts messing and you try to correct someone, they'll just pointlessly argue. My opinion in anyways.

Xluna

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

I was surprised by it too as back where i'm from, there have been a lot of suicides/ attempted suicides in the last 6 years.

Edit: Found the list. We're pretty far down it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Sad news to hear. I think a factor in those stats might be something to do with the traditional of familys not admitting that the victim died of suicide. Not so long ago the good old Catholic church banned suicide victims from being buried in church grounds.

Max001

Rebecca4welfare wrote: »

I won't comment on the rest of the thread, but the houseparty tips doesn't say "have a non alcoholic party". It says "have a theme. Alcohol need not be the focus of your party". It just means that rather than having a party where the sole purpose is to get stocious you can have a party that has another element and another bit of fun with it.

Well meant maybe, but basically flawed thinking. Theres a lot of research on the academic databases, carried out in third level institutions, indicating that at third level, education regarding health impacts of alcohol misuse is significantly more effective in reducing misuse and associated anti-social behaviour than proposing abstinence for example.

How difficult could it be to properly research the issue, liaise with CUH or HSE or an NGO to construct a coherent campaign to address problem and then implement. Too difficult obviously.

samf

Max001 wrote: »

education regarding health impacts of alcohol misuse is significantly more effective in reducing misuse and associated anti-social behaviour than proposing abstinence

But as Rebecca said the flyer doesnt recommend a houseparty without alcohol, it suggests one with a theme such as a toga party or something rather than a party where the whole point is to get as drunk as possible. It doesnt recommend abstinence?

Max001

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Indeed it is. Did anyone happen to get one of those flyers advising you on how to have a responsible house party? Among the suggestions were:

• Have a non-alcoholic night. As if people are going to pay attention to this, especially on Rag Week.
• Make one person a non-drinking warden of the party to make sure everyones ok and monitor noise.
• Make someone a warden of the door to watch whos coming in and out.
• Provide food and non-alcoholic drink for under-agers.
• Organize lifts for people, or if not, pay for taxis.

Do people who write these guides live on planet cuckoo land or something? In making it totally unreasonable they basically alienate people who would otherwise pay attention to it.

Ahem....I think point two refers to 'non-drinking'. Now while English is my native language and I could be mistaken, taking a wild shot in the dark (no pun intended) I think, maybe, just maybe, non-drinking might, meaning-wise be in the same ball-park as abstinence. Seems to me, point three, might just be going up the same blind alley in also using the word warden, assuming said door commander warden is also abstaining.....sorry, I mean non-drinking. Points four and five, well suffice to say I could have lotsa fun with those, however, life as they say, is too short.

samf

Right well why didnt you quote those points in your post rather than quoting rebeccas post? It just recommends one person in the whole party abstain for a night, not proposing everyone in the whole party abstain. And not everyone in UCC drinks so suggesting a non drinking friend attend a houseparty is hardly a bad idea just in case anything goes wrong?

Basically I see your point but the whole flyer isnt exactly screaming "dont drink!".

Max001

samf wrote: »

But as Rebecca said the flyer doesnt recommend a houseparty without alcohol, it suggests one with a theme such as a toga party or something rather than a party where the whole point is to get as drunk as possible. It doesnt recommend abstinence?

Have you ever been to a toga party? I mean one not run by the Legion of Mary. The more sober and subdued ones I've been to on various campuses resemble National Lampoon's Animal House or seek to, while the truely memorable ones, or rather the ones where participants run serious risk of alcohol poisoning, blackouts, not to mention obscene photgraphs plastered all over campus and always involve a call out of all of the emergency services, resemble various scenes from Apocalypse Now, The Wizard of Oz & Caligula's orgy all rolled into one.

Max001

samf wrote: »

Right well why didnt you quote those points in your post rather than quoting rebeccas post? It just recommends one person in the whole party abstain for a night, not proposing everyone in the whole party abstain. And not everyone in UCC drinks so suggesting a non drinking friend attend a houseparty is hardly a bad idea just in case anything goes wrong?

Basically I see your point but the whole flyer isnt exactly screaming "dont drink!".

No, it merely screams childish and amateur.

Max001

And another thing.........Raise and Give? What do-gooding, fun-killing, robot thought that up? Next years should be 'Roger and Grope' or 'Raid and Grab'.....anything to make it remotely anti-authoritarian. If there isn't double spread condemnation from all sides in the press, it simply hasn't registered.......with some money raised for good causes to take the edge off of course......alcohol awareness maybe?

samf

So first its bad because its promoting abstinence and then when you agree that its clearly not telling people not to drink, its now "childish and amateurish". :rolleyes:

Anyway, enough about the flyer, its off topic and distasteful to argue about such small issues in this thread. Overall there was no major trouble in the week, the gardai and residents were all delighted with how it went, so whether the flyer worked or not clearly the message got across.

samf

Max001 wrote: »

And another thing.........Raise and Give? What do-gooding, fun-killing, robot thought that up? Next years should be 'Roger and Grope' or 'Raid and Grab'.....anything to make it remotely anti-authoritarian. If there isn't double spread condemnation from all sides in the press, it simply hasn't registered.......with some money raised for good causes to take the edge off of course......alcohol awareness maybe?

Raise and give is what RAG always stood for, it was rebranded this year to bring the focus back to charity and away from binging from the week. And it worked.

Max001

samf wrote: »

So first its bad because its promoting abstinence and then when you agree that its clearly not telling people not to drink, its now "childish and amateurish". :rolleyes:

Anyway, enough about the flyer, its off topic and distasteful to argue about such small issues in this thread. Overall there was no major trouble in the week, the gardai and residents were all delighted with how it went, so whether the flyer worked or not clearly the message got across.

You've completely missed the point. I'm sorry, I can't use words that are any smaller. Plus, you've completely misrepresented what I said. Are you paralytic or something? I'd refer you to the HSE's excellent leaflet on liver damage and other ill effects due to binge drinking........and.....serious question how did you ever get into university in the first place?

samf

Max001 wrote: »

Are you paralytic or something?

Max001 wrote: »

how did you ever get into university in the first place?

Pity to see you resorting to personal attacks.

Could the houseparty tips have been better? Sure, days could have been spent researching the best advice and tips to give. Did they help anyone? Who knows, but I sincerely doubt they did any harm as they were. Really think you're making a big deal about nothing here.

Max001

samf wrote: »

Pity to see you resorting to personal attacks.

Could the houseparty tips have been better? Sure, days could have been spent researching the best advice and tips to give. Did they help anyone? Who knows, but I sincerely doubt they did any harm as they were. Really think you're making a big deal about nothing here.

Not so much a personal attack as disappointment when seeking to have a dialogue with another who doesn't take the time to engage eyes and brain before mouth.

Surely the point of what I assume is a paid post in the SU is that you seek to get a professional return on the amount paid out. An hour or two, if that would be enough to research and produce an effective flyer. So long as effectiveness ain't measured, even by simple metrics, SU officers will never be properly held to account and amateur hour will prevail.

samf

As I said earlier I think you can measure its effectiveness by the success of the week and the relative lack of trouble with out of hand house parties this year compared to previous years.

Which factors we have to thank for this is anyone's guess but its a bit much to be getting so worked up over a flyer not being researched enough for your liking. It was a good gesture, not an attempt to single-handedly change the drinking culture in UCC.

Max001

As John Wayne once said, (I think) 'Well, ex-cuse me all to hell'

Seriously, I don't mean to be bitchy and believe me, I ain't gettin worked up over a piece of paper and I try hard not to criticise someone who's not around to defend themselves so I'll simply say, 'Apologies all round' and leave it at that.

Celtise

I have to agree that there has been a scarily high number of natural disasters as well as student deaths this year.

I have had connections with three of the deaths this college year and two of them were alcohol related accidents. I was also connected to the student that died during RAG week last year and that was a totally unalcohol related accident.

Luck just doesn't seem to have been on our side this year.

rebel girl 15

I think it is a case as well of the deaths being more high profile, reported more in the media.

Nova_era

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I think it is a case as well of the deaths being more high profile, reported more in the media.

There hasn't been a huge amount over the last 2 years, has there? I can remember 3 or 4, but I wouldn't say it's a pandemic as such. It would probably match average statistics, in a population of 20,000 there's bound to be a few deaths per year.

baberuthless

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Problem is that suicide and depression are such taboo subjects still, despite the leaps Ireland has made with other taboo subjects. There is not enough being spent on providing parasuicide nurses and other forms of help. The stats say that young men between 16-25 are most at risk of suicide while girls in that age group are most at risk of self harming.

With Adam Buggy, the arts student that died last week, Gardai are looking at some sinister circumstances, including the possibility that he could have been followed or even chased, and that he was assaulted earlier in the evening
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/assault-probe-follows-tragic-crash-2051110.html

3rd year student before last years RAG week, 3rd year student before this years RAG week - when you think about it like that it is freaky

Hey, can i just remind you that before you go off using someone as an example for some "freaky" shocking news that he was a actually a person and a friend and a son.
can you please leave him out of your ****ing legend curse ****e. he's not like some ****ing school crest or grass that you can't walk on.
your stupid post obviously made as an offhand comment months and nearly a year ago but it doesn't make it right.

rebel girl 15

baberuthless wrote: »

Hey, can i just remind you that before you go off using someone as an example for some "freaky" shocking news that he was a actually a person and a friend and a son.
can you please leave him out of your ****ing legend curse ****e. he's not like some ****ing school crest or grass that you can't walk on.
your stupid post obviously made as an offhand comment months and nearly a year ago but it doesn't make it right.

where in my post did I mention curses - I mentioned that it was freaky as in weird that it was third year students. I have absolutely no idea where you got that I implied about these "curses" in my post. I made a comment on a coincidence that occurred - have no idea how someone could attack that post using the type of language you have above, or why the hell you would go to the trouble of resurrecting a year old thread!

baberuthless

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

where in my post did I mention curses - I mentioned that it was freaky as in weird that it was third year students. I have absolutely no idea where you got that I implied about these "curses" in my post. I made a comment on a coincidence that occurred - have no idea how someone could attack that post using the type of language you have above, or why the hell you would go to the trouble of resurrecting a year old thread!

you didn't in any way mention a curse but it seemed implied to be honest. to me he was a friend so i got very pissed off that someone could carelessly use him as an example. that was it really, wasn't planing on using you in an internet fight but what you felt said disgustingly insensitive.
i'm sorry if my use of language was inappropriate for you but yours was disrespectful.
i was looking him up for a memorial piece and thats how i found your post.

KnifeWRENCH

I think it's for the best to lock this thread and leave it be.