Solicitor won't pay for services rendered...

Teamhar

Hey folks,

Tricky one here. I've been providing documented and verifiable IT support services for a solicitor in Dublin for the last few months and there is now an outstanding balance owed for services rendered in December and January.

The relationship was good and they were very happy, but in January all of a sudden they kicked up a fuss when I requested the outstanding balance on the December statement be taken care of. Apparently, my fees were too high and they complained about being charged for a now unwanted service (remote monitoring and support).

Thing is, the fees were fine and what they were referring to was November, when there were a number of call-outs after hours when there was a major problem with broadband and problems with their ex-IT provider (now I know why he's "ex"). December and January were reasonable, with just a couple of scheduled day time call-outs each month, remote monitoring and the provision of a 17" TFT monitor.

Anyway, as it stands, there was an outstanding balance for just over €1,000 which I reduced to €825 (when they kicked up I figured I'd prefer to get some rather than none). I'd like to recoup this but they've cut off all communication since a mail I sent very politely stated that no further services or visits could be scheduled until I knew how they'd like to proceed with payment of the balance owed. I had already been awaiting a response to the amended and reduced invoices I sent last week but this mail was in response to a text message I received Thursday evening, requesting I visit with them Friday morning first thing. For one, it was impossible, as I had a visit with another client scheduled, but secondly, with no mention of money I really didn't want to go and waste more of my time for nothing.

I'm pretty sure bridges have been burnt as my user account to remotely access the server has been disabled. Not too sure how I can pursue this. Debt collection methods can get nasty in terms of being a nuisance and I don't want to be liable for that. There's no point complaining to the Law Society and not too sure if a claim through the Small Claims Court is any use either... I have absolutely no doubt that this git will dispute.

Any ideas? I'd hate to have to write it off, but I think that is what will happen Wish I could name and shame, and get some satisfaction!

Thanks,
T.

fl4pj4ck

from what I've heard, from this year on Small Claims Court will deal with cases like this, biz2biz, up to e2000

Trojan

If you feel your case is solid and your bridges are definitely burned, then get your own solicitor to draft a letter.

If you don't have one, check out debt collection letter services.

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

from what I've heard, from this year on Small Claims Court will deal with cases like this, biz2biz, up to e2000

Normally I'd agree, except for the fact that it's a solicitor they're dealing with - probably have a lot of knowledge and experience with the SCC.

Edit:

I was just thinking, it'd be pretty funny if you wrote them a letter asking for their advice on seeking to collect a business debt. Ask how they'd advise you to proceed.

This, of course, is not legal advice and IANAL.

Teamhar

Thanks for those. I had heard that the Small Claims Court was dealing with this sort of thing now, so I may pursue that option.

I'm just concerned that if I go down this road, Small Claims or debt collection being a solicitor of particularly litigious bent, this guy will make some sort of counter-claim just to spite me. He was talking about dragging his last IT crowd through the high court when he thought they had sabotaged him and I just laughed. If threats like that were made to me, I'd rather just walk away. If any action was taken, I obviously couldn't ignore it. And fighting would end up costing me more.

Ah, I'm just fed up and envisioning the worst case scenario. I did a really good job for him and did lots of extra work to keep the business. With the relationship a good one, I didn't think this would happen. I know that if I make any move, he'll threaten and I'll be too afraid to call his bluff and it will just end.

At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that the spam filter on his Exchange server is disabled.

Cheers,
T.

Bandara

you not going to get any more work out of him so I'd make sure I got my money.

Go sit in reception until he discusses it with you. If he fails to then talk to every peson that comes in there about how your waiting to get paid etc.

He'll call the police, they won't get involved and the whole thing will turn messy in his reception area. Which he won't want.

blue4ever

Cop's will walk away - it's a civil matter! (trust me)

Begin legal proceedings! Solicitors always believe that they are above that – I was owed a few quid from a particularly pompous solicitor who told me that his terms were 130 days! His terms.....!

Then his p.a. said that nobody would sue a solicitor! Which we did. And got the money.

Solicitors have a piece of paper, equivalent to like engineers, nurses, accountants. But they think that their bit of paper allows to act differently to all the other trades when it comes to the law.

dbran

Hi

I do not think thee is any point beginning legal proceeding as the debt is simply too small. The cost of the solicitors fees would gobble it up and if they dont pay up you have to pay them.

I would go the debt collector route but make sure they are professional.Some will work on a percentage case. PM me if you need me to recomend one.
The last thing you want is them taking a harassment case.

Ultimately you may just have to put this down to experience and write it off. I know its a terrible when you do good work for someone and they just say "thank you very much".

Dbran

Guell72

Yer only man.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/do-you-know-who-i-am--viper-threatens-debtors-1746850.html

Shayman

dbran wrote: »

Hi

I do not think thee is any point beginning legal proceeding as the debt is simply too small. The cost of the solicitors fees would gobble it up and if they dont pay up you have to pay them.

I would go the debt collector route but make sure they are professional.Some will work on a percentage case. PM me if you need me to recomend one.
The last thing you want is them taking a harassment case.

Ultimately you may just have to put this down to experience and write it off. I know its a terrible when you do good work for someone and they just say "thank you very much".

Dbran

Rubbish! Take him to the small claims court and claim your costs too. AND Name and shame him.

amen

inal

a but I wonder if you got the details of the other IT guy could go togethere to collect any owed monies? Show that he has pattern non payments etc and then report him to Law society for bringing solicitors in disrepute?

FusionNet

Hi TeamHar,

I provide similar solutions to similar clients and there are a few things I need to ask you and secondly maybe some advice.

Firstly, can you verify these:

1.) Is there a maintenance contract?

2.) Have you stated T& C on any paperwork submitted?

3.) Do you have signed dockets for callouts done? Did anyone in management sign for or agree to works via email?

4.) Have you ever been paid for anything yet?

5.)Do you know the previous IT contractor?

Ok I persoanlly havent had this as thankfully my client have been great and as of January I now get all harware payments in advance no matter the size of the client. Depending on the answers to above you may have left yourself open to be taken advantage of. If you have paperwork signed and agreed then legally you are covered, if not this guy could try and fight you and say you have no proof of works done. By the sounds of it Id say this solicitor may be in financial trouble as I have a few solicitors on the books and they are some of my favorite clients as their IT systems are essential so they always pay on time do to their needs.

I would try and find out the previous IT guy and call him. Get his insight, it may be similar to your story. As for trying to get the money, this is a tough one. You cant take your monitor or software back as its on their property but I would persoanly go into reception and ask to see the solicitor and talk face to face. It would be an idea to call your own solicitor and get a little advice as to your rights.

I feel your pain Im owed 800 euro for work done on a criminal case that both parties are refusing to pay, they keep blaming each other, its very frustrating..

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

There's good advice above but if it were me i'd probably send a letter to the law society asking for advice on the situation. The reason is few lawyers will take on cases of suing fellow solicitors and the small claims court you'd be at a disadvantage as they will know the system like the back of their hands.

Explain your situation to the law society and say that since the company is a law firm you have extended a discount to try to get the bill paid as send a solicitors letter was not a option, that you have been completely ignored and feel they are using their expertise and position as a solicitor to avoid paying for services rendered.

At least that would be my starting point.

blue4ever

Law society wont care - seriously, so save the energy.
There is also a myth that only a solicitor can instigate legal proceedings - for certain matters this is true. But in a commercial debt collection issue you can file yourself.

Send them a letter - informing them of the dept, outstanding days and your intention to begin legal action. Think about it this way - the business is lost, so get the money.

Shayman

check this out:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/small_claims_court

flash harry

great advice in general above.

2 things - defo go sit in reception and refuse to leave without cheque and if they have not paid for that monitor (albeit not worth much) go in and repossess it, its yours, they're outside terms.

In general these things generally do not get followed up on as they are 2 small relative to costs as mentioned and people for some bizarre reason do not sue solicitors

homeOwner

I assume he also has not paid for the 17" TFT monitor you provided. I would at the very least be paying a visit (under the guise of a meeting or whatever just to get in the door), walk into the room and take the monitor back. Whatever about quibbling over fees, if you provided h/w that he is using he needs to pay you.

amen

if they have not paid for that monitor (albeit not worth much) go in and repossess it, its yours, they're outside terms

I would suggest you don;t do this. Even though he hasn't paid I don't think you can just walk in and take it.

flash harry

amen wrote: »

I would suggest you don;t do this. Even though he hasn't paid I don't think you can just walk in and take it.

well I'm pretty sure unless he's paid over a set % you can......

FusionNet

My point earlier, you can not go into a client and take back any kick EVEN if they havent paind for it... Unless that is (and Ive taken legal advice on this) the staff let you in. Though it is a grey area and could backfire.

Look the world sucks, but we still all have to follow the rules. Whats your update on this scenario?

John368

DO NOT under any circumstances go in and retrieve a monitor as somebody suggested. Even if they have not paid for it, it is in their possession. I think even if you have a clause in your small print saying that all goods are your property, until paid for , I think the situation is still the same.

I think the small claims court is your best bet. Go well prepared. You did not do what that other company did and sabotage the firm. That previous IT firm got all that was coming to them if they sabotaged a customer's IT set-up no matter what the firm of solicitors did. It is possible that the firm of solicitors are over-confident about their case with you because of the case with the last IT firm.

Forget about the Law Society. They just will not be interested unless you make an official complaint. Doing that will just mean complicating the whole issue and delay you getting your money.

One other thing, it would appear that this money is only outstanding a few months. That is quite normal for many businesses. Solicitors especially think long-term. Often they take on cases where they do not see any return for 5 or more years.

In many trades and professions there is an unwritten rule and sometimes a written rule that you do not take on work from a client until you know that the person or firm who had provided that service to the particular prospective client has been dismissed. That means that the previous firm is no longer working for that client AND have been paid what they are owed. If they are changing to your company it is too easy to be flattered by them approaching you and you forget to ask the question Why? Some firms will be devious about that question or try to imply that it is none of your business. It is very relevant to you and and you need to get satisfactory answers to such question before you take on the job. If you are not entirely sure whether they last firm has been paid, then ring the last firm and ask them to confirm details your prospective client has told you. Most firms, even fierce rival firms who are in the same business will only too pleased to share such information.

In your case a telephone call to the firm who is now providing the IT services to the solicitors, might be be useful. It might be a bit late in this case, but I cannot see it doing you any harm. It might be a favour to that new company, which would stand you in good stead for the future.

John

TheWaterboy

I would call into the office and speak with the person you deal with. Sit down and iron it out and see what their problems are. Go in well prepared with dates that you provided support and break down your costs to show why you are owed 1000 euro.

I think this is the best chance you have. I worked for an IT company and had the awful job of collecting money. Used to get ate out of it on the phone but when I called to their office and explained and broke down the costs I rarely left empty handed.

Personally I think small claims court is last resort - The time involved plus solicitors fees plus the hassle might not be even worth it.

Teamhar

Hey folks,

Thanks for all the advice, some good stuff in there and I'll be adjusting some of my practices in future to align with some of what's been said! I think I've been too trusting, and as someone else suggested, flattered that I got the business at all!

On the upside, the client has been in touch, pretty much begging me to come back and I'm told there's a cheque waiting. I suspect they're getting sick of spam. Interestingly, they've also asked me to quote them for an equipment/network installation of new offices they're fitting out adjacent their existing premises, so that could be nice too. If I win the business back, I'll make sure all hardware is paid for up front, along with a deposit on the services!

Thanks again.
T.

LauraOrlagh

Hi,
I've previously worked in a debt collection agency who are truly marvellous and collect debts like yours everyday. I only left to start up my own company in a different area but you should ring Richard Keogh at All Ireland Credit Services and discuss your problem debtor (who is ironically a solicitor) and he'll help you out.

They offer honest no collect = no fee commission rates which is great as it means you're only paying for results rather than any effort (which is what a solicitor would charge you for for chasing your debt).

You can check them out online if you want too to check their Bona Fides and references before you ring Richard at http://www.eircollect.com/

Laura Kelly
Laura@creditcontrolcovered.com
http://www.creditcontrolcovered.com/

flash harry

LauraOrlagh wrote: »

Hi,
I've previously worked in a debt collection agency who are truly marvellous and collect debts like yours everyday. I only left to start up my own company in a different area but you should ring Richard Keogh at All Ireland Credit Services and discuss your problem debtor (who is ironically a solicitor) and he'll help you out.

They offer honest no collect = no fee commission rates which is great as it means you're only paying for results rather than any effort (which is what a solicitor would charge you for for chasing your debt).

You can check them out online if you want too to check their Bona Fides and references before you ring Richard at http://www.eircollect.com/

Laura Kelly
Laura@creditcontrolcovered.com
http://www.creditcontrolcovered.com/

PREVIOUSLY???

your company and your "previous" one share an address and director.

LauraOrlagh

To flash harry,
Yes you're quite right they do. However, they are two totally seperate entities and as I correctly said, I previously worked in Customer Care for AICS.

I'm sorry you felt the need to point out that we share address and a director, many different businesses do you know - a shared premises (ie. an office block is an extremely common concept) which eliminates costs, and a director who is also involved in directing other companies is not an alien concept in this day and age either.

I was simlpy trying to offer some helpful advice as I know from firsthand experience that customers have collected money they never thought could be collected using AICS.

Laura

BnB

LauraOrlagh wrote: »

To flash harry,
Yes you're quite right they do. However, they are two totally seperate entities and as I correctly said, I previously worked in Customer Care for AICS.

I'm sorry you felt the need to point out that we share address and a director, many different businesses do you know - a shared premises (ie. an office block is an extremely common concept) which eliminates costs, and a director who is also involved in directing other companies is not an alien concept in this day and age either.

I was simlpy trying to offer some helpful advice as I know from firsthand experience that customers have collected money they never thought could be collected using AICS.

Laura

Now Flash...

That put you back in your box.