What would your school do for kids not involved in activities?

Kilmurray

Hello, I had a meeting with principle of my children's school as a member of PA(parents association) to discuss few issues. One of them is... When school was taking a part in a concert last December, only some of the kids in 4th,5th, and 6th class participated. They were pulled out the class during the school hours to practice and the pupils of the teacher in charge of the prac were left doing nothing productive(they finished homeworks, etc).

PA pointed out to principle
1. Kids on the choir are not getting the education during practice( the rest of 4th, 5th pupils whose teacher was not in charge went ahead with the rest of the day's work). Pupils of the teacher in charge of the choir who are not in the choir did not get the education they deserved(no arts for weeks, no tin whistle lessons,no computer,no history projects etc)

Response of the principle
1.There is no solution in this arrangement.It has to happen during the school hours -not before, after school, during the break because teachers need a break.
2. Foot ball traing/match has a same arrangement. It's same principle that kids who are not part of it just have to sit and do their own things while teacher is away with the team.

My point is
# Is it normal practice in Ireland?
# Other Irish parents seemed to agree with him as long as their kids are in part of activities.
# What about the kids who are not into football(He only pursues football) or music? Do they have to pay the price because their interest is different?(My own kids are in part of some activities but as a PA, I feel I need to speak for the most.

Do other parents have a similar experience?

E.T.

I can see your point and why you are worried about your child missing out on lessons, but unfortunately there is no way of catering for every individual's interests when a large event such as a concert is taking place.

If you are very concerned about this you should make a complaint to the Department of Education because they are the body who refuse to provide substitute cover for teachers who are away at school matches/concerts etc. The principal has no ability to get a substitute in for this.

In our school one of the teachers often takes children for practices at lunchtimes before competitions, concerts, masses etc (which means she doesn't get any break between 9 and 3), and a few of the teachers are involved with practices after school for a variety of things - sport, music, drama etc. This is the teachers' own decision and they are not paid for it. Also with regard to practices during break time - in our school we all do 5 yard duties out of the 10 breaks a week (half of big lunch twice a week, 2 small breaks a week, and one full big lunch - in reality we don't get any lunch break the days we're on half of big lunch as we have to supervise the children eating) so it's not possible to fit in regular practices here either.

Practices for concerts involving the majority of pupils take place during school hours as it would be completely impractical to get such a large number of students and parents involved after school a few days a week for an event. We have tried this before but so many pupils missed different practices that it was impossible to get all of the children used to not just the singing/drama but the basic practicalities of a concert. Also a few parents complained about having to pick their children up late which really shows you can't keep everyone happy!

If you can come up with some alternate solutions you should discuss it with the PA and see if they are workable.

Kilmurray

Hi Et Thank you very much for your post. I would like to call myself a very reasonable sensible parent but this time I do not understand whole selfishness of the teachers. They don't all do yard duty. One teacher per break out of 10 + teachers(SNA doing duties as well). The choir in question had less than 25 kids in it and another half of the 5th and 6th were not in it. One teacher decided to have a group of kids to do tinwhistle after school with a fee.(I thought it was understandable as it would be out of her work hours but your school teachers seemed to volunteer ). As principal said it was a voluntary decision to be a part of a concert(school didn't organise the concert-concert was held in RDS). PA never questioned about the practise involving majority of kids like christmas concert or end of the year show.He only wants to do football not other sports. He brings in coaches during school time and kids have to be in training on non PE days. I asked why the other 5th class teacher not took non-choir pupil, principal answered it would disturb the other 5th class...

E.T.

The after hours practices that teachers in my school do are more for Scór and other such competitions that take place throughout the year, but on a very irregular basis so they aren't regular classes like a tin-whistle class - there could be 2 or 3 practices for a fortnight and none for a month.

I must say that your point about teachers being selfish for not doing yard-duty is very inaccurate - it's completely up to the individual teacher whether or not they do yard duty - if you do it you are paid for the time, but don't get any break that day. I don't see how it's selfish to opt out of a voluntary duty. SNAs take their breaks before/after the official school break as part of their duty of care includes supervising the child they are assigned to during the child's playtime.

It would be fairly standard for coaches to be brought in for sports during school time, the GAA is doing it all the time and lots of schools get in professional dance teachers (unfortunately I've 2 left feet so I completely admit teaching dance steps is not my forte!) and sometimes gymnastics teachers for a few weeks of the year. Children also go swimming from a lot of schools which takes up a lot of time if they have to get a bus from a village to the nearest swimming pool. Any such activities should be counted as p.e. time.

You do seem to have a lot of concerns, and as you're an active member of the parents' association, your best bet is to raise the concerns at meetings of the PA and if the majority agree, then raise it the issue with the board of management through the parent representatives on the board.

implausible

It's rather simplistic thinking to call the teachers lazy. Supervision/yard duty is voluntary. When a big event is looming e.g. a concert, disruption is inevitable. I have yet to hear of a school who can get the balance right between extra-curricular and academic education, at times like this. Extra-curricular activities are an essential part of a child's education and all schools realise and encourage this.

The alternatives to such disruption are to have extra-curricular activities outside of school-time. The result will more often than not be non-participation by children and no events taking place, due to parents being unwilling/unable to do the extra taxiing. Teachers need a break in the day, as do the children, so during lunchtime is not an option.

In answer to your question, yes, it is normal practice in Ireland in my experience. Others are free to disagree, however.

Kilmurray

As response to ET, the meeting was as a result of PE and BOM meeting. I and the chairperson of PE had a meeting with principal. Outcome of the meeting is more or less unwillingness of even discussing the matter.

I think I was not clear when I phrased tearcher being selfish. I don't think they are LAZY. I mentioned the breaktime rota of my kids school teachers to give the description of how it isdone in their school. Any I did not know it was a VOLUNTARY, kind act of teachers to supervise children.

What I meant was why one 5th class teacher refuse to take another 5th class pupils during practice of the choir. Would it not be better for them to sit in on the class than sitting and watching others singing for three months? The event did not involve whole school and teacher did not want to take whole 5th and 6th class pupils for the choir either.( It was not a competition )

I assume responses are from teachers. If teachers response of my thread is as how much work they have put on the job, What can I say? As times like this who would not put their heart and soul to do their best in their job?

I think teachers do good work in general. If teachers speak for themselves, children need someone like their parents to speak for them as well.