My Job As A: Solicitor

Wantobe

Since no one else replied...

Occupation:Solicitor
Qualifications held:BCL LLM
Previous Jobs:None of any merit, worked while a student parttime.
Daily/weekly/yearly routine:I work as a conveyancing/probate and general practice solicitor. I'm also a qualified auctioneer.
Age bracket: (optional) i.e. under 30, 30-40, 40-50, over 50; 30-40
General comments:It is difficult at the moment to get a job as a newly qualified solicitor, and it was always difficult to get an apprenticeship so that has to be taken into account. But if you love anything, there is a way.
Day In The Life: (describes just a regular day in detail) I started off as an apprentice in a general country practice. I had a brilliant apprenticeship and my master had me involved in all files. I then moved to specialise in commercial conveyancing. From there I became more involved in litigation as I became involved in construction litigation. Now that I have a family I have changed career to become a probate and conveyancing solicitor to cut down on travel.

A typical day would be- get in at half past eight to look through files for appointments later. Probably an average of four appointments per day, some days more, some days less. These appointments can take between fifteen minutes to hours, depending on complexity. So I might have a will at nine, this could take half an hour or longer. Then time to deal with some sales and purchase files. Then another appointment, could be a client with a personal injury, or a client with a family law problem or just about anything. People will make an appointment without telling the receptionist what it is about as it is very personal to them so I don't know what they are coming to see me about until they come in. And I;ve seen and heard quite a bit over the years, enough to expect the unexpected. Nowadays I have quite a few clients coming in who are very upset and distressed over debt. You do build up personal relationships with clients, and despite the image of solicitors being only after money, quite a bit of my time is taken up with dealing with peoples problems without charging.

ARound eleven I will have a chance to check the post, there is usually quite a volume. Might grab a coffee between appointments and files. An hour for lunch unless I have a lunchtime appointment for someone who can't get time off work, then more appointments and files during the afternoon. I could have a home/nursing home or hospital visit for elderly or ill/ sometimes terminally ill clients. Or sometimes I might have to call to see a property issue to fully understand a problem.

Work is very varied in general practice but it is quite a stressful profession and burn out is quite common. Just like many jobs there are good points and bad points.

Feel free to ask questions on a general basis. If you are really interested in pursuing law I would suggest that you contact local firms and ask to work for free for a few weeks to get an idea of the kind of work involved.

Swizz

Salary at start and if not too personal salary now?

Hogzy

Any chance you could go into a bit of depth as regards the stress and burn out factor?

Wantobe

Salary? As a solicitor this varies greatly. When I started off as an apprentice, I was unpaid. I worked part-time, nights and weekends in various other jobs to make ends meet. Sometimes I barely had enough money to put petrol in my car to make it to work. Luckily I was able to live at home for my apprenticeship and my father bought me a car- a rather old, clapped out banger. It was either that or live in the town where I had my apprenticeship and pay for rent and my own food which I couldn't afford. Any money I made I had to save towards Blackhall fees and living in Dublin for the Blackhall courses. Again I was lucky enough that my parents helped out where they could, I came home every weekend and my mother would load up my boot with food for the week ahead ( I'm from a farming background so milk, meat, veg were all home produced). When I qualified I started on a decent salary at the time, but by no means generous. It meant I could pay rent, food, buy the kind of clothes you need to get ahead and pay back my parents in little ways. I would not have been able to buy a house, or even go on a holiday. Three years after I qualified I went on my first holiday abroad with a friend and had to get a loan to go. It took me a year to pay it back. But then after about four years I suddenly had enough experience and the booming economy meant that my salary went quite a bit higher. I'm now 17 years in the business and earn a comfortable salary, but certainly am not wealthy. People have a perception that all solicitors are wealthy but it is far from the truth. Most solicitors I know have hefty mortgages that they struggle to pay. Like in many professions, there are SOME solicitors who are very wealthy, there are some who are not earning enough to get by, and the majority are scraping by.

As for burnout/stress: What can be said? It's a tough business, you can be personally sued at the drop of a hat, you constantly have to CYA, many colleagues will stab you in the back if necessary. You're constantly looking for work, no social life exists free of the need to solicit business. This and little respect in the current climate, many people see us as blood sucking, avaracious parasites.

But that's the bad side, there is also a good side. As I said above, you do develop good relationships within the business, with clients, with some colleagues. If you do good work business will come by word of mouth. And we do get to help people when no one else has their back- we will. We will fight on behalf of a client who really really need our help and sometimes we win. And that's a good feeling.

Swizz

Thanks!

Bigdeadlydave

Hi, I am deeply considering going down a law career path but I cannot decide weather I want to be a Barrister or Solicitor.
Could you perhaps describe how your work relates to that of a barrister?
And can the difference between the two really be summed up in the phrase "Barristers stand up, solicitors sit down"

Thanks.

Wantobe

A solicitor deals directly with the public. We have an office, people come into us and instruct us.

When we need a barrister to deal with a case, the solicitor then instructs the barrister. Barristers do not deal directly with the public.

Barristers deal mainly in litigation, however some very specialised barristers give opinions on complicated conveyancing and probate matters, though mainly where a court case could happen.

Solicitors have a right of audience in court but mainly you will see solicitors doing 99% of the court work in the district court, 20% in teh Circuit Court and nothing in the higher court without a barrister.

District court work consists of the more minor criminal work, road traffic offences, debt collection, civil cases with a low value, family law matters such as barring orders, maintenance, custody, juvenile matters and so on.

Circuit court will deal with the higher value civil cases, any case to do with land, the more serious criminal matters ( central criminal court) and so on.

You can be a solicitor and do nothing except court work, but equally you can be a solicitor and do no court work. However if you want to be a barrister you really should like court work or some aspect of it because it is extremely likely that you will spend most of your time there.

The other thing to consider is that barristers need referrals from solicitors, so it can be very hard to make a living when you are young and unknown if you do not have contacts. You will find in rural areas that the older, more experience solicitors will often take barristers on to help them- will deliberately send work their way. But in urban areas the competition is tough, although there is more work.

HTH.

conmo

im thinking of doing law but might be going to a private collage!
do you know if its harder to get a degree because you got one from say dbs?

frser32

hi. hi am just wondering do many barristers firstly work as solicitors? would it be better to be a solicitor first...gain contacts etc and then go on to become a barrister?
thanks in advance:)

Wantobe

conmo wrote: »

im thinking of doing law but might be going to a private collage!
do you know if its harder to get a degree because you got one from say dbs?

Do you mean is it harder to get an apprenticeship because you went to a private college for your degree? If so, no, I don't think so. Contrary to what people may think, you do not need to be academically brilliant with a first class honours degree from trinity to excel in law. What you need really is to be a well rounded practical individual who has cultivated contacts through social groups/clubs etc, so that in the future you will be able to bring in business,

frser32 wrote: »

hi. hi am just wondering do many barristers firstly work as solicitors? would it be better to be a solicitor first...gain contacts etc and then go on to become a barrister?
thanks in advance:)

No, not many, although it does happen. It happens the other way around too. But you are talking about qualifying first as a solicitor- takes at least two years, then working for a while to get those contacts and experience and then going back and requalifying as a barrister. Thats a hell of a time committment. Remember the people you meet in college during your degree are just as valid contacts- you do not need to become a solicitor first to make contacts, there are other ways.

conmo

thanks a mill
great thread!

fauxshow

Yeah thanks Wantobe this is a really good insight!

SEInvincible

fair play

Chris007

Wantobe wrote: »

Since no one else replied...

Occupation:Solicitor
Qualifications held:BCL LLM
Previous Jobs:None of any merit, worked while a student parttime.
Daily/weekly/yearly routine:I work as a conveyancing/probate and general practice solicitor. I'm also a qualified auctioneer.
Age bracket: (optional) i.e. under 30, 30-40, 40-50, over 50; 30-40
General comments:It is difficult at the moment to get a job as a newly qualified solicitor, and it was always difficult to get an apprenticeship so that has to be taken into account. But if you love anything, there is a way.
Day In The Life: (describes just a regular day in detail) I started off as an apprentice in a general country practice. I had a brilliant apprenticeship and my master had me involved in all files. I then moved to specialise in commercial conveyancing. From there I became more involved in litigation as I became involved in construction litigation. Now that I have a family I have changed career to become a probate and conveyancing solicitor to cut down on travel.

A typical day would be- get in at half past eight to look through files for appointments later. Probably an average of four appointments per day, some days more, some days less. These appointments can take between fifteen minutes to hours, depending on complexity. So I might have a will at nine, this could take half an hour or longer. Then time to deal with some sales and purchase files. Then another appointment, could be a client with a personal injury, or a client with a family law problem or just about anything. People will make an appointment without telling the receptionist what it is about as it is very personal to them so I don't know what they are coming to see me about until they come in. And I;ve seen and heard quite a bit over the years, enough to expect the unexpected. Nowadays I have quite a few clients coming in who are very upset and distressed over debt. You do build up personal relationships with clients, and despite the image of solicitors being only after money, quite a bit of my time is taken up with dealing with peoples problems without charging.

ARound eleven I will have a chance to check the post, there is usually quite a volume. Might grab a coffee between appointments and files. An hour for lunch unless I have a lunchtime appointment for someone who can't get time off work, then more appointments and files during the afternoon. I could have a home/nursing home or hospital visit for elderly or ill/ sometimes terminally ill clients. Or sometimes I might have to call to see a property issue to fully understand a problem.

Work is very varied in general practice but it is quite a stressful profession and burn out is quite common. Just like many jobs there are good points and bad points.

Feel free to ask questions on a general basis. If you are really interested in pursuing law I would suggest that you contact local firms and ask to work for free for a few weeks to get an idea of the kind of work involved.

Firstly Wantobe, thanks a million for taking the time to give us all an insight into your work, much appreciated!
I have always been drawn towards Law and law courses however I haven't much real knowledge of law and studying law. I am just wondering, before I commit to studying law, is there any way I could get a good insight into what it is like? For example, any books etc. that you would recommend?

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Would you recommend it to someone if they could say, make good arguments etc., or is it more personal work with clients i.e. consultation than actual legal action in courts and the like?

Swizz

Where did you get your qualifications?

Wantobe

Chris007 wrote: »

Firstly Wantobe, thanks a million for taking the time to give us all an insight into your work, much appreciated!
I have always been drawn towards Law and law courses however I haven't much real knowledge of law and studying law. I am just wondering, before I commit to studying law, is there any way I could get a good insight into what it is like? For example, any books etc. that you would recommend?

Hi Chris, I genuinely believe that there is only one way to find out what working in law is like and that is to do some work experience- one former colleague ( now a judge) told me that once he qualified as a solicitor he never opened a book again.;)

Shepard Massive Comedienne wrote: »

Would you recommend it to someone if they could say, make good arguments etc., or is it more personal work with clients i.e. consultation than actual legal action in courts and the like?

Hi Shepard Massive Comedienne- You need to have both. I used to be a litigation solicitor and that does involved investigating, formulating good arguments and presenting that argument well. You also need to have the right attitude with clients- remember they are employing you and deserve your best attention and respect. Also if you are representing someone involved in litigation, dealing with a probate or even a house purchase or sale- although you are used to dealing with this everyday these are actually stressful events in most peoples lives so that needs to be kept at the forefront of your mind too.

Swizz wrote: »

Where did you get your qualifications?

From an NUI college and then the Incorporated Law society.

jonesy93

Hello, just wondering how long did it take to become a solicitor?
I pressume your degree was 3/4 years and you masters was another year? But how long did the training and the law society take ? until you became fully qualified?

secondly, If it is not too personal ,how much did your training cost (not university just training and law society)?
finaly, if one doenst have a law degree is the application procedure still the same?

pampers1

I have just completed BA (Ord) In Law from DIT. I'm just wondering how I can say that i am a qualified Legal Executive or does such a thing exist? If I am working as a legal executive am I entitled to an audience in Court? Do most legal executives cover District Court work and handle these files by themselves?

daysleeper

Hi OP, first of all thanks for starting the thread, it's been very helpful.

With myself I find that while I'm very interested in law and would love to study it, I'm worried as I've been told that because I'm quite shy it wouldn't suit me well. From your experience is this generally the case? Do you know of any career paths in law that don't require you to be comfortable speaking in front of large groups of people? Or is this something you pick up along the way?

Thanks again.

jonesy93

Hey, as far as I know certain areas of law ie probate and trust law don't require you to go to court very often and therefore not having to talk to large groups of people. Also, corporate law as far as i know is not courtroom based. And the only time you have to talk in fron of people is at a board meeting etc.

GoldRush4821

I hope this thread hasn't gone completely dead and that you may be able to answer my questions anyway here goes...

I too am considering studying law but I don't particularly feel that I will go down the solicitor/barrister route. I have been told that a law degree is greatly respected by many employers because of the broad range of skills a law degree produces in its students, however this isn't to say that I am ruling out going down the solicitor route.

My questions are;
Have many of your fellow classmates in college gone onto careers outside of law and if so, what are the types of careers that they have found?

Would you recommend a different course to someone who didn't necessarily want to become a solicitor, or do you think the law degree in itself is a valuable one to have?

What are the skills/character traits that you would deem absolutely necessary for, not just the profession but even, a law degree itself? Would you need to be an avid reader, good at writing/presenting or is the emphasis more on being able to think quickly to come up with persuasive arguments? Being a solicitor, isn't the emphasis more on creating a solid case by finding out all the facts before entering court, and in most instances passing the case onto a barrister to try in court? Do you truly need that extroverted personality which many deem essential to become a solicitor when you will in reality spend less of your time in court and more time dealing intimately with clients, something which I feel I would be better at as I couldn't call myself an extrovert by any stretch!!

I would greatly appreciate if you could answer these questions but having said that, it was started a long time and may be dead, as I said.
Thanks anyway.

Wantobe

First of all- I'm sorry I haven't replied to this earlier but I didn't check the thread in a while and I recently received a pm asking if I am still open to answer questions- yes I am but maybe pm me to prompt me to look at the thread otherwise I won't know you've asked a question.

jonesy93 wrote: »

Hello, just wondering how long did it take to become a solicitor?
I pressume your degree was 3/4 years and you masters was another year? But how long did the training and the law society take ? until you became fully qualified?

secondly, If it is not too personal ,how much did your training cost (not university just training and law society)?
finaly, if one doenst have a law degree is the application procedure still the same?

It's different nowadays- I did a three year degree, a 1.5 year masters and a 3 year apprenticeship but the apprenticeship is 2 years nowadays I believe- although you will have to wait to be called to Blackhall. How much did it cost? Again it's pretty much irrelevant now as it is too long ago but it was quite a lot at the time.

pampers1 wrote: »

I have just completed BA (Ord) In Law from DIT. I'm just wondering how I can say that i am a qualified Legal Executive or does such a thing exist? If I am working as a legal executive am I entitled to an audience in Court? Do most legal executives cover District Court work and handle these files by themselves?

I would suggest that you would contact the law society who will be able to answer your queries properly.

daysleeper wrote: »

Hi OP, first of all thanks for starting the thread, it's been very helpful.

With myself I find that while I'm very interested in law and would love to study it, I'm worried as I've been told that because I'm quite shy it wouldn't suit me well. From your experience is this generally the case? Do you know of any career paths in law that don't require you to be comfortable speaking in front of large groups of people? Or is this something you pick up along the way?

Thanks again.

I'm unsure about this. To be a well-rounded solicitor I think you have to be able to attend court and probably gain some experience at it. That's just a personal opinion and certainly you could specialise in, for example, probate or conveyancing and never do any litigation. But you need to be comfortable meeting clients and sometimes large groups of them. I know colleagues who regularly throw up before going to court, so nerves are common in the profession. Some exposure to legal training ( which involves mock trials-advocacy classes and so on) will probably knock some of the shyness out of you anyway- and some will go with age and as you gain experience and confidence. All in all, if law is the career for you, I think you'll find a way.

GoldRush4821 wrote: »

I hope this thread hasn't gone completely dead and that you may be able to answer my questions anyway here goes...

I too am considering studying law but I don't particularly feel that I will go down the solicitor/barrister route. I have been told that a law degree is greatly respected by many employers because of the broad range of skills a law degree produces in its students, however this isn't to say that I am ruling out going down the solicitor route.

My questions are;
Have many of your fellow classmates in college gone onto careers outside of law and if so, what are the types of careers that they have found?

Would you recommend a different course to someone who didn't necessarily want to become a solicitor, or do you think the law degree in itself is a valuable one to have?

What are the skills/character traits that you would deem absolutely necessary for, not just the profession but even, a law degree itself? Would you need to be an avid reader, good at writing/presenting or is the emphasis more on being able to think quickly to come up with persuasive arguments? Being a solicitor, isn't the emphasis more on creating a solid case by finding out all the facts before entering court, and in most instances passing the case onto a barrister to try in court? Do you truly need that extroverted personality which many deem essential to become a solicitor when you will in reality spend less of your time in court and more time dealing intimately with clients, something which I feel I would be better at as I couldn't call myself an extrovert by any stretch!!

I would greatly appreciate if you could answer these questions but having said that, it was started a long time and may be dead, as I said.
Thanks anyway.

I would strongly recommend against a law degree in your circumstances. A law degree is useful for law only or for careers which will involve an element of litigation. I know colleagues who, after 10 years in law, now would like to turn around and retrain- but as what? People who've done an arts degree can turn their hand to so much more. Some people think a law degree is prestigious- but to be really practical, an arts degree is much more useful.

And the skills to complete a law degree- again I'm going to explode a myth here- a law degree is not the most difficult to complete. I and most of my friends did very little work in comparison to friends doing engineering/dentistry/medicine and arts. It may well be different now but my opinion at the time was that it was one of the easier degrees.;)

I know quite a few solicitors and there are very few extroverts- but you will find the more successful ones have become so through personal contacts- they are engaging, friendly, outgoing and involved in the community/sporting groups etc.

FcukRain

Wow thank you so much for posting this, I've been looking for answers in this profession for so long and you've given me so much insight!
I'm kinda like the other person, I'm shy not a great public speaker. But I'm really passionate about law, I was part of my school's mock trial team, we won the all Ireland title and went to New York. I didn't talk because I was a solicitor and ever since I have been aiming towards being a solicitor. I want to do more family/social law..helping people instead of housing and things in that area. Will I have to do public speaking in college? And will I have to talk in court?

Cill94

Wantobe wrote: »

Salary? As a solicitor this varies greatly. When I started off as an apprentice, I was unpaid. I worked part-time, nights and weekends in various other jobs to make ends meet. Sometimes I barely had enough money to put petrol in my car to make it to work. Luckily I was able to live at home for my apprenticeship and my father bought me a car- a rather old, clapped out banger. It was either that or live in the town where I had my apprenticeship and pay for rent and my own food which I couldn't afford. Any money I made I had to save towards Blackhall fees and living in Dublin for the Blackhall courses. Again I was lucky enough that my parents helped out where they could, I came home every weekend and my mother would load up my boot with food for the week ahead ( I'm from a farming background so milk, meat, veg were all home produced). When I qualified I started on a decent salary at the time, but by no means generous. It meant I could pay rent, food, buy the kind of clothes you need to get ahead and pay back my parents in little ways. I would not have been able to buy a house, or even go on a holiday. Three years after I qualified I went on my first holiday abroad with a friend and had to get a loan to go. It took me a year to pay it back. But then after about four years I suddenly had enough experience and the booming economy meant that my salary went quite a bit higher. I'm now 17 years in the business and earn a comfortable salary, but certainly am not wealthy. People have a perception that all solicitors are wealthy but it is far from the truth. Most solicitors I know have hefty mortgages that they struggle to pay. Like in many professions, there are SOME solicitors who are very wealthy, there are some who are not earning enough to get by, and the majority are scraping by.

As for burnout/stress: What can be said? It's a tough business, you can be personally sued at the drop of a hat, you constantly have to CYA, many colleagues will stab you in the back if necessary. You're constantly looking for work, no social life exists free of the need to solicit business. This and little respect in the current climate, many people see us as blood sucking, avaracious parasites.

But that's the bad side, there is also a good side. As I said above, you do develop good relationships within the business, with clients, with some colleagues. If you do good work business will come by word of mouth. And we do get to help people when no one else has their back- we will. We will fight on behalf of a client who really really need our help and sometimes we win. And that's a good feeling.

Well all that scraping by for years has pretty much helped me decide I am NOT doing law :P thanks!