Why no bonus point in 6N

PeteSanchez

Kind of makes a mockery of the "rules" dont you think
i mean, the HC and BN are now almost different sports!!
Rugby is rugby is rugby
One rule for all surely

danthefan

It would be possible to win the Grand Slam yet lose the Championship.

Now that would be a mockery.

Riskymove

there was another thread on this recently

basically the problem is that you could have someone do the grandslam yet not win the championship which most people wouldn't agree with

thomond2006

What danthefan and riskymove said.

Bonus points work in other competitions really well, but they would not suit the Six Nations.

d'Oracle

Also it would be a big stretch to call this a mockery of the rules.

Rugby is a sport played between two teams of 15 on the pitch.

Score tables, leagues and knock out structures are ancilliary methods of aggregating the results of the game of rugby.

death1234567

The points difference method of separating teams works fine IMO.

Podge_irl

PeteSanchez wrote: »

Kind of makes a mockery of the "rules" dont you think
i mean, the HC and BN are now almost different sports!!
Rugby is rugby is rugby
One rule for all surely

They're different competitions, not different sports. They have completely different formats beyond just the bonus points.

leeroybrown

Bonus points have very little to do with the 'rules' of rugby. They're just a local ruling for each competition to decide on. I think that they'd be entirely unsuitable for the 6N. While it is decided on points in the end, the 6N is really five test matches that you play to win. You'd have the potential to have some strange championship results and bonus points would just amplify the effect of the unbalanced home/away fixtures.

JJ

Since every team plays every other team only once during the tournament, the current scoring system is fine. Teams are still motivated to keep scoring or to narrow their losing margin due to the point difference being the tie breaker and the championship can be won and lost on that.

McCalvin

I think the only way bonus points in 6 nations would work is if there were home & away games.... i.e. 10 games in total.

Although then you'd probably never have Grand Slams!

Macsimus

just for discussion you could possibly make a win eight, a draw four, and a bonus point (losing or try) 1

so a gs with no bp's would be 40 points
and 4 wins with 5 bp's would be 37

Risteard

Macsimus wrote: »

just for discussion you could possibly make a win eight, a draw four, and a bonus point (losing or try) 1

so a gs with no bp's would be 40 points
and 4 wins with 5 bp's would be 37

But that would defeat the purpose of bringing it into line with the other competitions wouldn't it?

A lot of trouble just for the sake of a bonus point.

danthefan

Macsimus wrote: »

just for discussion you could possibly make a win eight, a draw four, and a bonus point (losing or try) 1

so a gs with no bp's would be 40 points
and 4 wins with 5 bp's would be 37

You could, but I can't see why you'd switch to that rather than just keep it how it is.

sock puppet

PeteSanchez wrote: »

Kind of makes a mockery of the "rules" dont you think
i mean, the HC and BN are now almost different sports!!
Rugby is rugby is rugby
One rule for all surely

Not all systems that use bonus points are the same though. For example in thet top14 teams have to score 3 more trys than their opponents to get a bonus point. Also in the Super 14 teams are separated on points difference while the Heineken Cup separates teams on results between the two teams and then tries scored so there is there is a lot of variation across competitions even without the Heineken Cup.

Macsimus

Risteard wrote: »

But that would defeat the purpose of bringing it into line with the other competitions wouldn't it?

A lot of trouble just for the sake of a bonus point.

At the end of the tournament a 1 point lead is as good as any other . A single bonus point could win you the Championship in a non gs year.

danthefan wrote: »

You could, but I can't see why you'd switch to that rather than just keep it how it is.

to make teams try and score more tries, and to give a losing team the target of a losing bonus point, as in other comps??

Risteard

Or you can leave it the way it is and try to make teams score more points in order to increase their points difference. Case in point was Ireland against Italy a few years ago, we tapped the penalty at the end to try and score again. Ultimately it backfired on us but that's the risk we took.

6 Nations is about winning. I hope it always stays the way it is as it's one of my favourite tournaments. Probably because it doesn't last very long compred to other comps.

Macsimus

Risteard wrote: »

Or you can leave it the way it is and try to make teams score more points in order to increase their points difference. Case in point was Ireland against Italy a few years ago, we tapped the penalty at the end to try and score again. Ultimately it backfired on us but that's the risk we took.

6 Nations is about winning. I hope it always stays the way it is as it's one of my favourite tournaments. Probably because it doesn't last very long compred to other comps.

Points difference will still be a factor, but bp's would encourage teams to go for the jugular against teams other than Italy and the odd weak Scotland team. (in recent yrs obviously)

5 arm wrestles in a row is all well and good when your team is winning, but for the sake of the 6n as a spectacle and as a medium for promoting the sport, i think bp's couldnt hurt. We all want to see more tries dont we?

I think we would have beaten France to the championship in 07 with that points scoring method

Risteard

Macsimus wrote: »

Points difference will still be a factor, but bp's would encourage teams to go for the jugular against teams other than Italy and the odd weak Scotland team. (in recent yrs obviously)

5 arm wrestles in a row is all well and good when your team is winning, but for the sake of the 6n as a spectacle and as a medium for promoting the sport, i think bp's couldnt hurt

We would have beaten France in 07 with that points scoring method because apart from losing to them in croker, we played the best rugby

'Best rugby' is subjective. I find a forward orientated team that strangle teams up front using mauls and good tactical kicking as enjoying as a game where the ball is flung around out the backs.

Macsimus

Risteard wrote: »

'Best rugby' is subjective.I find a forward orientated team that strangle teams up front using mauls and good tactical kicking as enjoying as a game where the ball is flung around out the backs.

I partly agree with you in that i like to see a good trench battle too, but i only want to see that tactic from my team when they have to use it, i.e. the opposition are better or equal.

Bp's would also discourage mgmt from flooding the bench when they have a good lead or a good deficit. Which would make for fewer cases of a team giving up because they have little to play for and another team possibly winning the championship on points difference because of it. jmo

Risteard

Well if a team is far enough ahead, it doesn't matter whether there are losing bonus points to be had or not.

I can see where you're coming from as Bonus Points have worked in other competitions and have been a very positive addition IMO. But I think the 6 Nations is different to every other comp. as teams only play each other once so it's 'do or die' for every match until you meet them again next year.

Macsimus

Risteard wrote: »

Well if a team is far enough ahead, it doesn't matter whether there are losing bonus points to be had or not.
I can see where you're coming from as Bonus Points have worked in other competitions and have been a very positive addition IMO. But I think the 6 Nations is different to every other comp. as teams only play each other once so it's 'do or die' for every match until you meet them again next year.

i dont see why it would have to be home and away fixtures - the 6n is uneven at the moment with its 3/2 home away fixture biannual rotation - so i dont see why bp's would make it any more so