recessed lights insulation

rodred

Hi,

i am fitting recessed gu10 lights in my new build, i have insulated the between the joists and am wondering will i have to remove the insulation around where the lights will be?
any info much appreciated.

cheers

onq

rodred wrote: »

Hi,

i am fitting recessed gu10 lights in my new build, i have insulated the between the joists and am wondering will i have to remove the insulation around where the lights will be?
any info much appreciated.

cheers

You can fit boxings with perforations to keep the insulation back to avoid heat build up and you can specify transformers which automatically cut the current if they overheat, however...
If they're in the ground floor ceiling/1st floor you need to fit fire hoods to maintain the FR30 required for the floor.
If they're in the top floor ceiling/attic you will perforate your vapour check and as winters get colder you may experience worsening problems with condensation in the attic, leading to reduced performance from your insulation and or rot in timbers/damp patches.
This will tend to be exacerbated if additional insulation has restricted or blocked the 50mm ventilation gap along the eaves and/or there is no vapout check on the warm side of the insulation.
The lights are often fiddly to change and unless you specify long life 10,000 hour bulbs it will seem like you're always changing the lights.
In a frequently used room with say 6 lights - a kitchen for example, you're be changing ordinary life fittings every other month or so.
From recollection, this problem is made worse if you use a system where several lights are run off one transformer AND the lengths of the wiring connectors is not matched - I'm not sure these are available on the market any more though.
As these are at a height, for safety in use you should invest in a small stand as opposed to standing on a ladder or furniture.
For the reasons stated above, I don't specify recessed downlighters any more, although some clients and/or their interior designers have overruled me in the past.

FWIW

ONQ.

rodred

thanks very much for the info ONQ,
if i buy fire rated fittings is that suffiecent?

also if i went with LED's would that solve the problem?

the ceiling is slabbed already and i dont want to have to
take it down to fit boxes.


cheers

onq

rodred wrote: »

thanks very much for the info ONQ,
if i buy fire rated fittings is that suffiecent?

also if i went with LED's would that solve the problem?

the ceiling is slabbed already and i dont want to have to
take it down to fit boxes.


cheers

Hi rodred,

As the disclaimer and mods point out, there are limits to the general advice that can be offered on Boards.ie.

Its important to be aware of this when asking questions because a professional can expose his/her practice to liability by offering advice in an unguarded manner, which is why you got the balanced and qualified comment above.

Am I correct in assuming the lights are in the ground floor ceiling/ 1st floor with accommodation above them?

ONQ.

rodred

Sorry ONQ i know what you mean..

yes the lights are on the ground floor,
and 1st floor with converted attic storage space
above,
i have seen a number of low energy light fittings
stating that they are 90mins fire rated, but could
not find any info on wheather the insulation should
be removed around them.

ill have to see if i can find any info in the tech guidance manuals,

thanks
rob

onq

rodred wrote: »

Sorry ONQ i know what you mean..

yes the lights are on the ground floor,
and 1st floor with converted attic storage space
above,
i have seen a number of low energy light fittings
stating that they are 90mins fire rated, but could
not find any info on wheather the insulation should
be removed around them.

ill have to see if i can find any info in the tech guidance manuals,

thanks
rob

<SNIP>The difficulty with downlighter fittings is sealing them to prevent the passage of cold smoke and gases like carbon monoxide.

Intumescent paste is messy, but it may be possible to use it seal around the edge of the fire rated hood and where the wiring passes through it.<SNIP>

In an intermediate floor without insulation the cut-out transformers may okay by themselves.<SNIP>

If there is insulation above the ground floor ceiling within the 1st floor construction, this is likely to increase any rate and level of heat build up and resultant "failure" of light fittings. Any insulation in a confined space like that should be Rockwool or another incombustible/fire rated product.
<SNIP>

<SNIP>

<SNIP>.

<SNIP>

My best advice is to use surface mounted fittings but if you can't or won't then make a practice of checking the installations in the attic regularly to identify any problems that may be brewing - <SNIP>

HTH

ONQ.

Mod Edit: Please stop rambling off topic

kaizersoze

onq wrote: »

You can fit boxings with perforations to keep the insulation back to avoid heat build up and you can specify transformers which automatically cut the current if they overheat,

Aren't GU10 fittings 240v though?

onq

I was referring to downlighters generally, in cases where transformers are used in relation to heat build up.

If you want to use low voltage light fittings you need a transformer but these can cause heat build up if built in leading ot fire oubreak.

I have attended at two fire scenes caused by transformers over heating which is why I mention the cut-of option.

Hope that clarifies it.

ONQ.

rodred

thanks for the info ONQ,
but im still a bit confused:o

i will only have surface mounted in lights down
stairs in the kitchen / living room,
in the attic they will be surface mounted.

my question is basically, can i use spots
down stairs or do i have to protect them in some way?
they will be mains voltage GU10, and i am looking at energy efficent
led's.

thanks
Robert

onq

rodred wrote: »

thanks for the info ONQ,
but im still a bit confused:o

i will only have surface mounted in lights down
stairs in the kitchen / living room,
in the attic they will be surface mounted.

Its okay, after reading this I'm a bit confused myself - they're surfaced mount in the attic, kitchen and living room. Where are they meant to be used as downlighters?

my question is basically, can i use spots
down stairs or do i have to protect them in some way?

If you've surrounded them with insulation in an intermediate floor I think you'll have a problem with heat build up.

they will be mains voltage GU10, and i am looking at energy efficent
led's.
thanks
Robert

Which are you looking at, mains- fed GU10's or energy efficient led's?

ONQ.
(now even more confused than rodred...)

rodred

lol sorry,
i will only have recessed lights down stairs, and surface mounted
in the attic.

i am looking at recessed led's which are made for a gu10 fitting

cheers

DaithiOY

SIMPLES: Use IC (Insulation Contact)-rated lights!

Check Out SEAI
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/FAQ/..._lighting.html

Is it possible to insulate recessed lighting?

Older recessed lights can be a significant source of air leakage. Insulation must be kept at least 3" away from the older style lights because of the heat they give off in order to allow the heat generated from the lights to dissipate. Experts often make boxes to cover the recessed light fixtures in the attic out of fire resistant wallboard to reduce leakage. However, unless the boxes are made large enough, the lights can overheat. The boxes should allow at least 3" space on all sides of the light fixture.
If loose fill insulation is installed, a metal cylinder with an open top can be used as an insulation dam to keep the insulation away from the light. However, the dam will not prevent air leakage around the light. If you are planning a remodel job, leaky, old-style recessed lights can be replaced with IC (Insulation Contact)-rated lights. These lights can be in contact with insulation, and more recent brands are air-tight. Many of the new recessed light fixtures that are sealed use CFL bulbs, a great energy-saving combination.

Idbatterim

op, i just removed the insulation back from downlighters by 1 foot in each direction, ofcourse it call always come loose though etc, so tack it back... would recommend going for led downlights and not halogen, far cheaper to run, very little heat generated (so far safer) and the philips ones i have use only 4w and last god knows how many times longer...

DaithiOY

I'm informed that if the lights get too hot, the bulb will blow (not catch fire) and you'll always be replacing them.

Upturned ceramic garden pots with a few drilled holes and a long sawed slit for the cable works well, inch & half from light, with insulation (also very fire retardent) packed around and over.

I agree with the LEDs, much safer, same price as halogens (E12), and not nearly as hot. More efficient, environmently friendly, and so on

All in all - RECESSED LIGHTS are a PAIN! and don't get me started on shadows! Would not recommend...