Car dealer 'misled' the public with SIMI logo'

Atlantic Dawn

I have a suspicion that somebody posted a very similar story to this on here last year?

A CAR sales garage misleadingly used the SIMI logo indicating membership of the Society of the Irish Motor Industry, a court has heard.

Garage proprietor Dave Masters told the Circuit Civil Court he had since joined the SIMI but said that two years ago, when he allegedly made a "defective car" sale, there was nothing on his documentation indicating he was not a member.

He told barrister Benedict O'Floinn he had used the SIMI logo on his paperwork because he aspired to living up to the society's standards.

Anan1

He told barrister Benedict O'Floinn he had used the SIMI logo on his paperwork because he aspired to living up to the society's standards.

bazz26

Looks like his aspirations were achieved.

Tragedy

Whats the story with the cars they sell? Noticed a few times that their cars for sale were also for sale up north, with the reg's unhidden(on english/NI) plates for less - even with VRT factored in.

robtri

Anan1 wrote: »

bazz26 wrote: »

Looks like his aspirations were achieved.

yep he did.. as he alledegy sold a defective car..... thats SIMI alright

pppspecial

Hello everybody. Dave Masters here.

Believe what you like in the papers. Im sure Mr kelly didnt expect the judgement given. The court had ruled that my company had done everything we needed to do in respect of this deal but gave the benifit of the doubt to Mr kelly in respect of the timing belt €600 and also the failure of the NCT €300 which may I add failed on a brake imbalance, light bulb gone and non visibility off a rear seat belt. Almost 3 months after buying the car and 2,000+ miles
We do however offer a full warranty with every car sold retail and Mr Kelly failed to bring the vehicle back in to finish any problems still outstanding on the car, which was agreed on the day he colected the car. He also claimed the car was misrepresented when sold to him. This was also a lie as he had test drove the car himself before agreeing any deal.
Not only that on every VW passat it has miles wrote directly beside the milage.
This was also signed for at the end off the sales order form.
We had spent 580 servicing this car @ trade prices and sold the car in good faith.
Mr Kelly also claimed the car had not been serviced prior to sale.
After 3 weeks of the car leaving the garage a letter was sent from a solicitor on behalf off Mr Kelly. The solicitors gave me the run around after many requests, bring the vehicle back in to sort out a few minor problems.......its is a second hand car.

Im not happy at all with this situation as there were 2 losers here. Mr Kelly will have to pay his own barrister fees etc etc as 900 will not go far and keep the car as it wasnt a dud or anything like it hence the judgement.
Going into court it was 7030 in there favour as i was on my own and they had an engineer + witnesses. They did however offer a deal after the first day and just his own costings solicitors barrister fees were 6k+.

Ive been selling cars now for over 10 years and never been in court over any car. Crazy huh.
The reason why it ended up in the districts is beyond me but then im sure his barrister has a lot of clout there after all he did write the book on court proceedings in Ireland and a Cambridge student to boot.

Guys take what you like from the papers Im a good guy and deal above board everyday of the week.

Funny how SIMI get dragged into it.... Trust the papers...lol.. how wrong do they have it each time they print.
At the end of everything his barrister not happy with the judgement harped up about the SIMI issue saying arbitration etc etc. My client wouldnt have any costings blah blah blah.......Was it not him to drag me through this... Makes me laugh.

Im now feeling sorry for Keith Kelly but then again let it be a lesson that you cant just make things up and expect to get away with it.

Yours Honestly
Dave Masters

<snip>

Berty

Kudos for defending yourself.

Gary ITR

Dave fair play for coming on but if you want to tell us about promotions please use the proper channels. Thanks

Hal1

It's gas how everyone jumps on the bandwagon when they read these type of stories in the paper. They believe some journo's side of the event which is usually misleading the truth and inaccurate, before actually hearing the full story :rolleyes:.

500sel

were you in the simi or using there logo without authorisation?

Guy:Incognito

Hal1 wrote: »

It's gas how everyone jumps on the bandwagon when they read these type of stories in the paper. They believe some journo's side of the event which is usually misleading the truth and inaccurate, before actually hearing the full story :rolleyes:.

We did'nt hear the full story. All I see in the post is mention of the "simi issue" not an explanation.

Gary ITR

Just to put the 'full story' here as reported in The Herald

The Herald wrote:

A CAR sales garage misleadingly used the SIMI logo indicating membership of the Society of the Irish Motor Industry, a court has heard.
Garage proprietor Dave Masters told the Circuit Civil Court he had since joined the SIMI but said that two years ago, when he allegedly made a "defective car" sale, there was nothing on his documentation indicating he was not a member.
He told barrister Benedict O'Floinn he had used the SIMI logo on his paperwork because he aspired to living up to the society's standards.
Masters, head of Dave Masters Motors, Kylemore Park South, Dublin, was sued by technician Keith Kelly for the return of his 1999 Five Series BMW and €2,500 cash or the full €7,500 cash value of the deal he made in May 2008.
Mr Kelly, of Lakeside Park, Newbridge, Co Kildare, said the 2001 Volkswagen Passat he bought was defective. He had traded down from a Five Series BMW. He also outlined issues he had with the non-replacement of the timing belt and difficulties with the coolant.
Masters told the court that Kelly had ignored repeated requests to return the car for minor repairs and since purchasing it had put up 32,000 miles on the vehicle.
Judge Leonie Reynolds awarded Mr Kelly €300 towards the replacement of the timing belt and €600 towards the cost of preparing the car for the NCT.

Gary ITR

pppspecial wrote: »

<snip>

Dave I asked you politely to use the correct channels if you wished to advertise. You re-edited the post and that is a big no no. Take a 7 day break

Tragedy

Sounds like he wanted to just return the car rather than get the problems fixed and DMM didn't want to oblige.

It's understandable, even though not a legal obligation. If I bought a car, found out it had several problems and hadn't had the timing belt changed, I'd want to return it, get my money back and shop elsewhere.

I wouldn't get a barrister involved if the garage refused though

robbie99

Hal1 wrote: »

It's gas how everyone jumps on the bandwagon when they read these type of stories in the paper. They believe some journo's side of the event which is usually misleading the truth and inaccurate, before actually hearing the full story :rolleyes:.

I don't know what thread you were reading but if you carefully read the posts in this one, the only bandwagon people were jumping on was the having a laugh at SIMI's reputation bandwagon. I don't see how journo's short report, incomplete maybe, changes SIMI's reputation.

kpnuts

Onkle wrote: »

Dave I asked you politely to use the correct channels if you wished to advertise. You re-edited the post and that is a big no no. Take a 7 day break

Totally unfair IMO to ban pppspecial aka Dave merely for including a link to prove his bona fides and general good standing among Boards.ie community.

Especially at a time that his professional reputation is the subject of this thread. Please at least lock this thread until his return, if you do have to ban him at all for this trivial alleged infraction. Totally unreasonable towards Dave to let this thread continue without his input.

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

If I bought a car, found out it had several problems and hadn't had the timing belt changed, I'd want to return it, get my money back and shop elsewhere.

Which is fair enough. But putting 32,000 miles up on a car that you're not happy with would be taking the pee.

Tragedy

JHMEG wrote: »

Which is fair enough. But putting 32,000 miles up on a car that you're not happy with would be taking the pee.

That's 32,000 miles in 18months JHMEG.

After 3 months it was 2,000 miles(According to DM)

Dave Masters received a solicitors letter 3 weeks after the sale, which would be a good bit less than the 2,000 miles(Again, according to DM)

Run_to_da_hills

kpnuts wrote: »

Totally unfair IMO to ban pppspecial aka Dave merely for including a link to prove his bona fides and general good standing among Boards.ie community.

Especially at a time that his professional reputation is the subject of this thread. Please at least lock this thread until his return, if you do have to ban him at all for this trivial alleged infraction. Totally unreasonable towards Dave to let this thread continue without his input.

I suggest locking the thread if the man cannot defend himself.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I suggest locking the thread if the man cannot defend himself.

Why? It's his own fault he can't defend himself. Should all threads be locked if the subject poster is banned?

Tragedy

kpnuts wrote: »

Totally unfair IMO to ban pppspecial aka Dave merely for including a link to prove his bona fides and general good standing among Boards.ie community.

Especially at a time that his professional reputation is the subject of this thread. Please at least lock this thread until his return, if you do have to ban him at all for this trivial alleged infraction. Totally unreasonable towards Dave to let this thread continue without his input.

Why can the thread not continue without his input?

The fact he operated under the auspices of SIMI without actually being a member is recognised by a Circuit Court.

Anything else in the thread, was raised by pppspecial himself so what does he need to be here to defend himself from?

Gary ITR

kpnuts wrote: »

Totally unfair IMO to ban pppspecial aka Dave merely for including a link to prove his bona fides and general good standing among Boards.ie community.

Especially at a time that his professional reputation is the subject of this thread. Please at least lock this thread until his return, if you do have to ban him at all for this trivial alleged infraction. Totally unreasonable towards Dave to let this thread continue without his input.

I shouldn't respond to you here, questioning a mods decision on thread isn't how we do things but I will. I asked politely and he repeated the offence, Dave had a chance to defend his business without spamming his special offers, he was also asked a direct question here and didn't respond but found the time to re-edit and spam again.

If you have any more questions or accusations you can PM me.

@RTDH he had a chance to respond, he didn't take it properly so now it is his own tough luck and if he wishes can respond in 7 days when the ban is up.


EDIT: Lads can we discuss the op/article and not the moderating decisions. Thanks

Hal1

robbie99 wrote: »

I don't know what thread you were reading but if you carefully read the posts in this one, the only bandwagon people were jumping on was the having a laugh at SIMI's reputation bandwagon. I don't see how journo's short report, incomplete maybe, changes SIMI's reputation.

I wasn't referring to the simi logo. Just that how those people 'journo's' can ruin ones reputation.

daveharnett

pppspecial wrote: »

Hello everybody. Dave Masters here.

Dave, credit your cajones and all, but don't come back when your week is up. It is overwhelmingly improbable that it will go well for you.

pppspecial wrote: »

Trust the papers...lol.. how wrong do they have it each time they print.

To be fair, the article is pretty rubbish. It presents allegation as fact with just enough qualification to avoid libel. "A car sales garage murdered kittens and ate babies, said somebody" is about the gist of it.

That said, I note that you didn't address the allegation at the centre of the piece. Did your documentation bear the SIMI logo while you were not a member?

Beta Ray Bill

A little off topic but I would never buy a car from a dealer again unless I was buying brand new.

the aricle is rubbish, but at the end of the day he lied about the SIMI membership. Prehaps Mr Kelly would not have bought from this dealer had he known they were not SIMI.

Would be nice to hear from Kieth Kelly...

cpoh1

I think if anything this situation should be a lesson to people buying a car to check it over thoroughly and walk away if you are unhappy with any issues it may have even when its bought from a dealer. Car dealers are not perfect and with any 7 year old car there will be issues that you dont have with a brand or near new car. Sometimes despite a good looking over by a dealer they miss things that may only turn up after a car is bought. It is how the dealer responds to this is the key and from what I can see this guy tried to do that.

It is totally unreasonable to expect a full refund on a car after 2000 miles and a few months because it failed the nct on a few minor issues and didnt have the timing belt changed especially with the dealer looking to rectify the issues.

A lesson well learned for the guy who bought the car. 1. Check it over thoroughly and 2. Give the dealer a chance to fix it when it goes wrong. A very expensive mistake for the guy unfortunately.

cpoh1

grahambo wrote: »

A little off topic but I would never buy a car from a dealer again unless I was buying brand new.

the aricle is rubbish, but at the end of the day he lied about the SIMI membership. Prehaps Mr Kelly would not have bought from this dealer had he known they were not SIMI.

Would be nice to hear from Kieth Kelly...

Does being a member of a SIMI garage mean anything at the end of the day? You gain nothing ultimately.

People are afraid to buy privately sometimes but i would say its cheaper than buying from a garage and in reality garages have limited liability in most cases with cars they sell anyway. buying privately isint the risk most think it is provided you have done your homework and get the car properly checked.

biko

cpoh1 wrote: »

Does being a member of a SIMI garage mean anything at the end of the day? You gain nothing ultimately.

Dave Masters doesn't agree. He think it makes a difference.
And so does lots of others that sport the SIMI logo prominently on their websites.

Cookie_Monster

pppspecial wrote: »

Not only that on every VW passat it has miles wrote directly beside the milage.

:D:confused:

Berty

Yes, being a member of SIMI mean's that they can audit you and it assure's the buyer your company operate's to the highest standards set out by SIMI.

However, that being said, who is to say that Dave was not performing to those(albeit endorsed by himself) high standards and even surpassing them and those of SIMI?

Bouncers have to be accredited now by the NSAI but they are still muppets.

Guy:Incognito

Berty wrote: »

Yes, being a member of SIMI mean's that they can audit you and it assure's the buyer your company operate's to the highest standards set out by SIMI.

However, that being said, who is to say that Dave was not performing to those(albeit endorsed by himself) high standards and even surpassing them and those of SIMI?

Bouncers have to be accredited now by the NSAI but they are still muppets.

While his standards may have been high (accordign to himself of course) there is still an element of deceit in trying to pretend he was part of SIMI. Deceit is not somethign that instills confidence in the view of a customer.

Tragedy

cpoh1 wrote: »

It is totally unreasonable to expect a full refund on a car after 2000 miles and a few months because it failed the nct on a few minor issues and didnt have the timing belt changed especially with the dealer looking to rectify the issues.

I was only speculating on if he was looking for a full refund(as he wouldn't let the garage work on it and got solicitors involved early).

Also, according to Dave Masters, the first solicitors letter was sent 3 weeks after the car was bought, long before the 2,000 miles and NCT were done.

Stevie Dakota

It's a shame to see this story unfold. Dave has built up a lot of goodwill among here, myself being one his many satisfied customers (valeting, not car purchasing). They really went out of their way for me. But the misrepresentation re SIMI does do harm and people will have to draw their own conclusions. In isolation this is not a big deal, but trust is everything with second hand dealers and it sounds like Dave has some rebuilding to do.

Darsad

Well Dave I think you got off very lightly and rightly so in relation to the defects , the guy had a problem and didnt bother returning the car for retification then how could he expect it to pass the NCT and to pursue you for that matter. In saying that Mr Kelly,s solicitor was probably ill advised to run with the case but then they will run with anything these days as it is not unusual in my experience for the judge to come down on the plaintiffs side as in many cases in his head its a simple case of who can most aford the bill and he is helped with this decision when the defendant normally a dealer or distributor turns up with legal representation engineers experts etc its easier for the judge to find in favour of the poor down trodden customer , and so representing yourself was probably a smart move !

500sel

Funny!!!!! Mr Masters dose not seem to be on the member list of the simi web site. How ever maby he was and got himself booted out:p

Navack

Anyone had any dealings with this guy lately - how safe is he to deal with for second hand cars?

Daymo007

Hi folks,

Can I throw my lot in here? I got a second hand car from this garage a couple of years ago and yes it was a dud. It spent more time the garage trying to fix the many problems that it had. The car had a flat battery (who would sell a car with a flat battery?), reversing senses that didn’t work, different warning lights flashing up on dashboard, it was a nightmare and to make matters worse the car had leakages under the drivers’ door and boot, again, the garage couldn’t fix any of these problems. Suffice to say I got rid of it after 6 months. Don’t buy from this garage. I don’t care if it is a second hand car or not. If it is not fit for the road it should not be sold.

testicle

Daymo007 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Can I throw my lot in here? I got a second hand car from this garage a couple of years ago and yes it was a dud. It spent more time the garage trying to fix the many problems that it had. The car had a flat battery (who would sell a car with a flat battery?), reversing senses that didn’t work, different warning lights flashing up on dashboard, it was a nightmare and to make matters worse the car had leakages under the drivers’ door and boot, again, the garage couldn’t fix any of these problems. Suffice to say I got rid of it after 6 months. Don’t buy from this garage. I don’t care if it is a second hand car or not. If it is not fit for the road it should not be sold.

Why did you buy it so?

knird evol

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