Aero bars (not the chocolate ones)

Chips Lovell

After time trialling without any special gear for the last couple of years I figure it's about time I at least got myself at set of aerobars and maybe an aul helmet for the new season.

There appears to be three main types of bars. Flat, S-bend and the ones that curve up at the end. Does anyone have any info/opinions on the merits or uses of each type?

blorg

I believe flat are meant to be most aero followed by S bend and the ones that curve up. To an extent it will depend on which you find most comfortable. I have four sets at this stage, haven't used them all yet though.

Chips Lovell

My instinct was to go with the flat ones as they appeared the most aero alright. I'm guessing the others are more comfortable. But given that I'll never be using them for longer than an hour I wonder if that should be an issue?

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

My instinct was to go with the flat ones as they appeared the most aero alright. I'm guessing the others are more comfortable. But given that I'll never be using them for longer than an hour I wonder if that should be an issue?

I think it is, from what I have read comfort is important if you are going to maximise your power output. You will also want to be training on them, you get substantially better at using them with practice, so it is not just a couple of 1 hour long races.

IIRC you have issues using your drops so flat don't sound like a great idea. The only flat ones I have are FSA short ones supposedly designed to maintain a road bike saddle position, they are certainly very uncomfortable for me but mainly due to a lack of length. Looking to sell them incidentally. You would be welcome to try them or indeed others from my collection that I'm not selling, just to see what works for you.

Chips Lovell

I'm OK on my drops, I think. The main issue was they were a little too narrow, but I'm swapping them out. I have ridden a 40km TT down in them before.

As for training, that's true, but you wouldn't spend the entire session on the bars would you? I'd be thinking of shorter efforts on them followed by recovery periods?

I'm looking for longer ones so I can put the saddle forward. At least that's what I want to try first.

Perhaps the S-bend are the best compromise? I could always swap them out next year if I want to get down lower.

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

As for training, that's true, but you wouldn't spend the entire session on the bars would you? I'd be thinking of shorter efforts on them followed by recovery periods?

I'm looking for longer ones so I can put the saddle forward. At least that's what I want to try first.

I liked mine so much I left them on the bike pretty much 100% of the time other than road races. Several very long cycles on them including the Surf n Turf 300km and 800km around Ireland. But even disregarding this I don't think you want to sacrifice comfort even for the race itself as it could impair your cycling. I didn't bother moving my saddle and was fine, I could well not have an optimal position mind but I am lazy.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

As for training, that's true, but you wouldn't spend the entire session on the bars would you? I'd be thinking of shorter efforts on them followed by recovery periods?

No, the whole session on aerobars. They're supposed to be comfortable.

I'm looking for longer ones so I can put the saddle forward. At least that's what I want to try first.

Yes, get long ones. Mine are at full extension, although thats with the short top tube on the TT bike. Of course you could use a shorter stem to get the required length (which is beneficial so that your elbows are close to the pads) but then you're into major faffing.

Perhaps the S-bend are the best compromise? I could always swap them out next year if I want to get down lower.

S-bend are fine. Cancellara uses them I think. You probably won't need to get lower - you have a lot of drop already, and you'll be on your elbows.

toomuchdetail

New to bikes and new to tri's and completed a few last year , decided to give aerobars a go and recently purchased a cheap and cheerful set of profile something s-shaped all in one bars (suit my purpose for now) .
My question is that after initially trying them out on the turbo trainer for a short while I ventured onto the road today , I soon learned that you can't steer the bike with them! !! once I pulled my arse out of the ditch I decided that there are probably other rules I need to know .
So apart from not been able to steer the bike with bars what else should I know.

IM0

toomuchdetail wrote: »

So apart from not been able to steer the bike with bars what else should I know.

Unless you are preparing for racing you shouldnt have them at all, the raods are tricky enough to negotiate without aero bars, get your bike skilz down (read 2nd nature reflexes) before you venture into aerobars :cool:, they are for experienced cyclists only. :P

Try them out on straight long stretches on road first (I mean Km's long) and practice moving your hand from the aerobars to the normal bars. This has to become quick and elegant as you have no doubt found out there are no brakes attached to them!

and you dont turn corners with aero bars, you flow through them hardly steering at all, and shifting your weight on the bike.

cdaly_

me@ucd wrote: »

Try them out on straight long stretches on road first (I mean Km's long) and practice moving your hand from the aerobars to the normal bars. This has to become quick and elegant as you have no doubt found out there are no brakes attached to them!

Although this can be optional...

I use mine on my commute every day. You do get used to controlling the bike with them but it is pretty different to normal bars and you cannot really use them in slow traffic.

That said, I did have the pleasant experience of crashing after a blow-out while on the aerobars that I might have been able to recover from had I been on the normal bars...

toomuchdetail

cdaly_ wrote: »

Although this can be optional...

Have the same bars , clever bit of innovation on the breaks .

Not sure about the bars (hence the low budget spend) as the furtherest I will be going in maybe 1-2 40k cycles on olmpic tris but the majority will be on sprints , probably more to gain from a better bike position and bigger balls for downhills and cornering .

[EMAIL="me@ucd"]me@ucd[/EMAIL], thanks for the advice, some clubs up here that I may try and get out with for the exp .

Thanks

blorg

Practice makes perfect. You don't have as much control as on the normal bars but you can get very good, you can certainly go around roundabouts on them. Hairpin turns at 70km/h, no, as I found out the hard way.

Brakes on them are really not necessary, or even advisable, ideally you would move to your normal brake levers when you anticipate needing to brake. In any emergency braking situation you will probably need the extra steerability of this position, emergency brake on aerobars and you will probably crash.

IM0

blorg wrote: »

Hairpin turns at 70km/h, no, as I found out the hard way.

jes man physics says you cant take a hairpin at 70 on normal road bars..wtf were you thinking

blorg

me@ucd wrote: »

jes man physics says you cant take a hairpin at 70 on normal road bars..wtf were you thinking

I was 70 going into it, didn't know it was a hairpin (they are rare in Ireland), was off them to brake and turn but it ended up being too sharp and there was gravel all over the road so leaned appropriately but the bike slid out from under me. Nasty roadrash 75km into a 300km cycle... Finished that one OK (I think 3 out of 10 of us on it crashed badly) but the next week I went through a car's rear window slicing my neck open quite badly while trying to ride the Tour of Ireland ahead of the race. Probably worked out for the best as they determined in the hospital that the previous week's road rash was the more serious concern and was going septic. Great memories!

ROK ON

blorg wrote: »

(they are rare in Ireland)

Not where I live. I presume you mean full C like hairpins.
2 on Molls Gap. 1 on Caha Pass. At least 5 on the Healy Pass. 1 on the Borlin Valley on the Kilgarvan side. These are all on my regular weekend spins. There are probably more that I just cant recall at present. There is one on The Vee.

In Dublin/Wicklow I can think of 1 between Kippure and Glencree over looking the lake (maybe not full hairpin). Two on descent from Three Rock.
1 on carpark/lookout point from Kilakee down Cruagh.

What I would be interested in is how do you corner on a descent at 70km. I would love to be able to do it. Some of it is just down to experience, but what is your technique/tips?

TinyExplosions

ROK ON wrote: »

What I would be interested in is how do you corner on a descent at 70km. I would love to be able to do it. Some of it is just down to experience, but what is your technique/tips?

I reckon he just goes round them at 5kph intervals, faster and faster till he falls off, then once he's recovered from the septic roadrash, knows that the speed before the crash is the optimal one

Nietzschean

ROK ON wrote: »

What I would be interested in is how do you corner on a descent at 70km. I would love to be able to do it. Some of it is just down to experience, but what is your technique/tips?

lunacy

blorg

The aero bars (with me unused to them) had me going into a sharp corner much faster than I should have been. By the time I got off them it was too late to slow appropriately. I am used to them now. I don't think I have ever (successfully) cornered at 70 but can certainly take milder corners at, say 60. Generally you want to be as far out as possible and looking for the exit.

Meant to add that I met the EMT who looked after me in the ambulance the next weekend in the Sean Kelly 160, he was a keen cyclist. I didn't recognise him as in the ambulance my head had been strapped into a position but he saw the bandages. Everyone who looked after me that day was very nice and I remember the nurses asking "Is it Lance" as I was brought into A&E

Made it on down to Cork the next day so was there for the finish but didn't manage to follow the race to Kerry. Did a loop around west Cork instead that was very nice.

IM0

ROK ON wrote: »

What I would be interested in is how do you corner on a descent at 70km. I would love to be able to do it. Some of it is just down to experience, but what is your technique/tips?

what you need to remember is you dont just start off going 70k through corners, and also you need to develop the skill to read corners and straighten them out in yourt mind (so that you are turning the least amount and so going the fastest you can while in control and calm at the same time)

ahh its triky to explain, basically its experience built up from gradually pushing out of your comfort zone over and over again, it just becomes second nature, thats the key, you need to make so much of the technique auto pilot, that the only things you are thinking about are the road surface and traffic...camber, walls...:rolleyes:

and all the while being loose and not scared or too apprehensive, like anything practice and make mistakes but without the crashing part

tunney

blorg wrote: »

I believe flat are meant to be most aero followed by S bend and the ones that curve up. To an extent it will depend on which you find most comfortable. I have four sets at this stage, haven't used them all yet though.

Nah, s-bends first, lazy or normal, then straight, then ski. John Cobb et al did alot of research into it, the link to which I just cannot find.

blorg

For fast cornering:

Approach fast and brake very late and very hard with the front brake. Brake in a straight line, not while turning. If you overcook it only use the rear brake while actually turning.

Be out as far as possible and then almost clip the apex. If you can see the road is clear use the whole road, if you can't see stay on your side. Even if you can't see you can usually go onto the wrong side a bit as you will be crossing back onto your side to take the corner.

IF the road is dry and clear of gravel you can lean further than you think. It is almost impossible to slide the bike out on a dry clear road. It entirely possible on a wet road or with gravel; I have done this at least three times on wet roads but never on dry ones.

Always look at your exit, not the obstacles you want to avoid (the wall, etc.) If there is oncoming traffic, don't look at it, look at the gap you need to fit through. The bike will tend to go wherever you are looking.

Be in your drops for all of this.

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

For fast cornering:

Approach fast and brake very late and very hard with the front brake. Brake in a straight line, not while turning. If you overcook it only use the rear brake while actually turning.

Be out as far as possible and then almost clip the apex. If you can see the road is clear use the whole road, if you can't see stay on your side. Even if you can't see you can usually go onto the wrong side a bit as you will be crossing back onto your side to take the corner.

IF the road is dry and clear of gravel you can lean further than you think. It is almost impossible to slide the bike out on a dry clear road. It entirely possible on a wet road or with gravel; I have done this at least three times on wet roads but never on dry ones.

Always look at your exit, not the obstacles you want to avoid (the wall, etc.) If there is oncoming traffic, don't look at it, look at the gap you need to fit through. The bike will tend to go wherever you are looking.

Be in your drops for all of this.

Nice.

My problem with fast cornering is I lose my nerve, start hitting brakes, bike straightens up, panic some more and generally swing too wide, lose all speed....this is useful though.

I think I should have a few shots of jack before I head out on the bike

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Nice.

My problem with fast cornering is I lose my nerve, start hitting brakes, bike straightens up, panic some more and generally swing too wide, lose all speed....this is useful though.

I think I should have a few shots of jack before I head out on the bike

Coming from a motorsport perspective, there are several ways to approach a corner, depending on where you want to do your braking, turning and acceleration. Obviously the power of a bicycle is hugely less than a motorbike, but some of the same principles apply.

The safest approach is a "late apex", also known as "slow in, fast out". Essentially you aim to have much of the turning done in the first part of the corner, to straighten the line of the exit. Since you are doing more of the turning before the apex, you need a lower entry speed. The major advantage is that if you overcook the entry you can straighten up and brake hard before (ungracefully) exiting the corner safely.

Late apexing can initially seem counterintuitive (i.e. less safe), since you brake longer, turn in later and hit the apex further round the bend. Your brain thinks "get to the apex quickly to give more space to exit", but the important thing to focus on is getting sufficient rotation of the bike at the apex. If you hit the apex without being sufficiently turned in, you haven't actually done the cornering job properly and will struggle on corner exit, with potentially disastrous consequences.

Obviously all this needs to be mitigated by road conditions, oncoming traffic etc.

Late apex done right:



Early apex done wrong:

toomuchdetail

Just looking at some of the posts here I think some of you guys have been certifed or should be certified :eek:
Seriously , not concerned at the cornering at 70kph as I cant get to that stage more concerned at the straight line speed at 33/38kph. I have a garmin and a bike computer and I am fine until I look down , check the speed and then get very nervous and tend to back off. Should I get rid of them or develop greater nerves ?
I assume 70kph is a downhill speed ?

Greatest injury on the bike so far (apart from numb nuts) is cramp in the hands from holding the breaks on decents !!Thats saying something I suppose .

Wez

This is pretty much what makes me climb mountains, coming back down! Lumen & Blorg have said it perfectly. Only problem in the real world (in Ireland) is potholes.. Hit one of them at speed and it's messy! Also, running wide with oncoming traffic, but adjusting your line can determine where you exit the corner can avoid this.

On 2 wheels with an engine under ya (or where you've limited lean angle) you have to lean in with your arse, to keep the bike more upright and maintain speed.

Main thing is, don't go faster than you're comfortable with and build it up gradually.

Lumen

Wez wrote: »

On 2 wheels with an engine under ya (or where you've limited lean angle) you have to lean in with your arse, to keep the bike more upright and maintain speed.

...and then there's countersteering to consider, which I don't think works quite as well on a bicycle with light wheels as it does on a motorbike/scooter. At least I've never consciously tried it.